Is it a sin for Christians to violently confront and resist oppressive antifa members?

[Getitright]

Or, one could say that God allowed me to be born in a place and in a time where it is legal to carry firearms for the sole purpose of saving myself and my family from evildoers, that he knew the devil would send to try and obstruct my family from helping all those he may bring in to our lives.

If that were the case then He wouldn't have had Jesus tell His followers to turn the other cheek. He wouldn't have had Paul tell his converts to not repay evil with evil. He wouldn't have had to say, vengeance is mine, I will repay.

 

[Trekson]

If that were the case then He wouldn't have had Jesus tell His followers to turn the other cheek. He wouldn't have had Paul tell his converts to not repay evil with evil. He wouldn't have had to say, vengeance is mine, I will repay.

"turn the other cheek" yes, get gutted like a fish..No! "Repay evil w/ evil". This isn't physical, ex. My neighbor stole something of mine so I'm going to steal something from him. "Vengeance is mine", Vengeance has an "after the fact" position, ex. somebody wrongs you and you spend days or weeks plotting on how best to "get them" back and then actually carrying out that plan. In present time, self-defense is neither evil or vengeance, you let your foe have one freebie, after that, imo, anything goes!

 

[Getitright]

"turn the other cheek" yes, get gutted like a fish..No! "Repay evil w/ evil". This isn't physical, ex. My neighbor stole something of mine so I'm going to steal something from him. "Vengeance is mine", Vengeance has an "after the fact" position, ex. somebody wrongs you and you spend days or weeks plotting on how best to "get them" back and then actually carrying out that plan. In present time, self-defense is neither evil or vengeance, you let your foe have one freebie, after that, imo, anything goes!

You can define them as you see fit. However, as I've stated several times, the first Christians understood them to mean there was no use of violence, period. Again, I know many Christians don't like this teaching but we have over 300 years of it. It was the first teaching, before all of these other ideas came along to get around it. It was the teaching of the church from the time of Christ to the time of Constantine when Christians began to merge with the state and go astray. They relied on God for their protection.

 

[Trekson]

300 yrs. vs. 1600yrs. the church matures by learning and adapting to the various new understandings as; the HS gives a little more knowledge every generation.

 

[Getitright]

300 yrs. vs. 1600yrs. the church matures by learning and adapting to the various new understandings as; the HS gives a little more knowledge every generation.

Yeah, 300 years of the original teaching of Jesus and the apostles vs. 1600 years of people manipulating the Scriptures. Please show me a document where the Holy Spirit changed the teaching of Jesus and the apostles.

 

[Trekson]

Yeah, 300 years of the original teaching of Jesus and the apostles vs. 1600 years of people manipulating the Scriptures. Please show me a document where the Holy Spirit changed the teaching of Jesus and the apostles.

You're not offering things from the scriptures besides what we've already covered and what you want isn't in there. You're relying on extra-biblical sources. Just because they were "early" doesn't make them less capable of error than anyone else.

 

[Getitright]

You're not offering things from the scriptures besides what we've already covered and what you want isn't in there. You're relying on extra-biblical sources. Just because they were "early" doesn't make them less capable of error than anyone else.

They weren't interpreting what they read, as we are. They were living what they were taught by Jesus and the apostles. It's akin to reading a history of the American Revolution written by an author today and reading the account from the writings of George Washington himself. He was there. He lived it. He knows what happened. Likewise, those first Christians were there. They lived it. They know what was taught. If you're going to claim they were in error, can you please show how all of them were in error. This was a universal teaching from Jerusalem to Gaul, to North Africa, and so on. Please make an argument from the Scriptures showing how they were wrong. You see, you speak a different language, live in a different time and culture, and are almost 2000 years removed from the events. Do you really believe you have a better understanding than those people who lived it?

 

[Trekson]

They weren't interpreting what they read, as we are. They were living what they were taught by Jesus and the apostles. It's akin to reading a history of the American Revolution written by an author today and reading the account from the writings of George Washington himself. He was there. He lived it. He knows what happened. Likewise, those first Christians were there. They lived it. They know what was taught. If you're going to claim they were in error, can you please show how all of them were in error. This was a universal teaching from Jerusalem to Gaul, to North Africa, and so on. Please make an argument from the Scriptures showing how they were wrong. You see, you speak a different language, live in a different time and culture, and are almost 2000 years removed from the events. Do you really believe you have a better understanding than those people who lived it?

You keep saying they were from 300ad, if so, none of them were taught by Jesus or the apostles.

 

[quietthinker]

For instance, if a group of Christians sees a group of antifa members marching down the street, destroying property and intimidating or even attacking innocent people, is it a sin if those Christians beat the Hell out of those antifa members or even kill them?

I am personally conflicted over this. History has taught us that the far-left would turn America into a repressive, totalitarian state with egregious human rights abuses. If Christians take a pacifist approach, the left will turn the U.S. into a one-party, fascist, oligarchy such as China has. Eventually, churches will also be persecuted and closed.

So, is it a sin if we use violence to prevent the U.S. from being turned into a totalitarian state? As I said, I am conflicted.

He who uses the sword will be killed by the sword.....Jesus

Soooooo, you cripple or kill the opposition and then go and tell him or his wife the good news of God's Grace? You'll have great influence!
Those who hear you will be in no doubt about your sincerity let alone the validity of what you claim.

Worried about loosing your stuff?? your life? hmmmmm......rethinking is required about what and to who allegiance is!

 

[K9Buck]

He who uses the sword will be killed by the sword.....Jesus

Soooooo, you cripple or kill the opposition and then go and tell him or his wife the good news of God's Grace? You'll have great influence!
Those who hear you will be in no doubt about your sincerity let alone the validity of what you claim.

Worried about loosing your stuff?? your life? hmmmmm......rethinking is required about what and to who allegiance is!

So it was wrong to violently resist the Nazis?

 

[quietthinker]

So it was wrong to violently resist the Nazis?

Violence has short legs and ultimately implodes upon its practitioners. Violence is the outworking of unhealthy ego.....it fools the self in thinking therein is a solution.
Jesus absorbed the violence against him and what appeared as a dismal defeat resulted in the greatest victory of the Universe.

Look at where the Nazis are now....look at where all oppressive systems end up.

Keep your peace and let them take your stuff and slay your body......the other side has victory of inestimable worth.

 

[Josho]

Some very good posts there @quietthinker

 

[Getitright]

You keep saying they were from 300ad, if so, none of them were taught by Jesus or the apostles.

Up to 300 AD. From the time of Jesus and the apostles to about 325 AD, the church taught that the use of violence for any reason was forbidden.

 

[K9Buck]

Violence has short legs and ultimately implodes upon its practitioners. Violence is the outworking of unhealthy ego.....it fools the self in thinking therein is a solution.
Jesus absorbed the violence against him and what appeared as a dismal defeat resulted in the greatest victory of the Universe.

Look at where the Nazis are now....look at where all oppressive systems end up.

Keep your peace and let them take your stuff and slay your body......the other side has victory of inestimable worth.

The Nazis are where they are now because we bombed and shot them.

 

[K9Buck]

So the Jews in Israel should lay down their arms and allow Holocaust 2.0, correct?

 

[quietthinker]

So the Jews in Israel should lay down their arms and allow Holocaust 2.0, correct?

To put it in perspective, all should lay down their arms. When however the only existence people perceive is the here and now, this is totally illogical to them. They fight for existence for a short time....they do not fight for life. How is that? ...they have no concept of what life entails and their self imposed limitation refuses to see further.

Consider all the 'winners' at Jesus' crucifixion.....where are they now? They, who where so proud of their achievement, so vocal in their boast and so violent in getting rid of the 'troublemaker'.....what has their destiny in store for them? They will be resurrected in the second resurrection to face the verdict of condemned. Where now is their boast? where now is their logic? where now is there 'victory'? The scripture says they will be as ashes under ones feet.....their opportunity for life forfeited for the miserable reward of a flattered ego for a brief moment in time.

As Jesus said, 'they have their reward already'

 

[K9Buck]

So God brought all the Jews back, to what would become Israel, (after WW2) and the Jews then defied God's wishes by shooting back at the armies sent to annihilate them, right?

 

[Trekson]

Up to 300 AD. From the time of Jesus and the apostles to about 325 AD, the church taught that the use of violence for any reason was forbidden.

We don't "know" the church taught that, just that there were a few men that held to that belief. They cannot be considered the majority.

 

[quietthinker]

So God brought all the Jews back, to what would become Israel, (after WW2) and the Jews then defied God's wishes by shooting back at the armies sent to annihilate them, right?

The Jews today are guided by their own misapprehensions. Their policies which I see the outworking of from media outlets are not those of God. Their rejection of Jesus nationally has put them on a path no different from other nations around them.....ie, have and get and grab with little or no consideration for ones neighbour.

 

[Josho]

The Jews today are guided by their own misapprehensions. Their policies which I see the outworking of from media outlets are not those of God. Their rejection of Jesus nationally has put them on a path no different from other nations around them.....ie, have and get and grab with little or no consideration for ones neighbour.

I have heard of stuff as bad as Israelis stealing houses from Palestinians to claim more land for Israel.