Is It Just Me.., Or Has Anyone Else Noticed...

[Faithful]

Hello everyone,

I lost my connection and thankfully someone replied to a topic I had been watching.
As a member of other boards which are Christian and some not. Is anyone else aware of the love between believers growing cold?
Some boards - believers welcome you and treat you kindly. Other boards they treat you badly. What is happening to the love of God.
Is there a definite growing cold of the love between believers? I am saddened at some of the things I have seen.
What is happening?

Faithful.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

As a member of other boards which are Christian and some not. Is anyone else aware of the love between believers growing cold?
Some boards - believers welcome you and treat you kindly. Other boards they treat you badly. What is happening to the love of God.
Is there a definite growing cold of the love between believers? I am saddened at some of the things I have seen.
What is happening?

Hi Faithful,
Interesting observation. I would not have framed it that way---this is how I would have made a similar original post maybe....

Has anyone noticed how immature socially and spiritually many brothers and sisters are on forums? Does the internet in paricular attract
angry people that think sacrcasm and meanness are cool? Have you noticed as long as one agrees with another all is peachy.
But, disagree in an interpretaton and you now are "the enemy". Are most Christians this way - immature if you don't agree exactly with
them or is it just an internet phenomenon?

That was my way to demonstrate, "I'm with ya Faithful" ---welcome back. And you can disagree with me anytime you want - I'll still love ya
in the morning. Actually, I don't care what you believe about anything - not even my cooking. I'm here to love ya - :) Miss Hepburn

 

[gumby]

Yes i have noticed, i think a big problem with that lies in the fact of peoples upbringing and what church they have went to as a child and are currently going to. Like me i grew up baptist and i have known other people that have grown up church of christ and many other divisions. Thats the way the divide ourself as the body of christ is by being divided as beleivers. The key essence is to stick to the bible and not mans church or denomination.

God bless :)

 

[HammerStone]

Well, I think forums and all other forms of social media suffer from what I've come to call the "detached factor." It's funny how bold people will get on the internet. If you haven't noticed it, just jump on a forum or take a look at your Facebook friends and see what gets said. It seems to me that people feel like they can always say something, but not necessarily be responsible for it if that makes any sense. They can always hide behind that cloak of "it's just the internet." This applies to Christians as well. When you make a statement on the internet, it's a lot easier to make the comment in a more forceful tone because you're not looking or even talking to the person(s) involved real-time. Strangely enough, it makes people bold in some arenas, but this doesn't always seem to transfer over to good Scripture. If instead of being bold against Brother Bob's or Sister Sue to be rude, why not exert that energy on something positive for God? Two wrongs never make a right.

There's nothing new under the sun in terms of believers being mean to other believers. It's just a good bit more open now when it occurs as well...

I think when you're dealing with this detachment and human words, problems arise. I cannot count the time I've watched perfectly good folks go round and round at each others' throat because of word choice. That drives me crazy, but I've seen it happen time and again. I think we suffer from an increasingly simplified language (and communication skills) and we're dealing with powerful forces that love the chaos. It's also the culture of ego, and the folks like to be right.

Christ came to give us division, he told us himself:

Luke 12:51 KJV
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Unfortunately it's not the divisions that have so much changed as it is how we handle those divisions.

II Timothy 3:12-13
Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

We were warned about this, of course. There are many wolves in sheep's clothing out there, unfortunately.

Matthew 24:12
And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.

 

[gumby]

Well, I think forums and all other forms of social media suffer from what I've come to call the "detached factor." It's funny how bold people will get on the internet. If you haven't noticed it, just jump on a forum or take a look at your Facebook friends and see what gets said. It seems to me that people feel like they can always say something, but not necessarily be responsible for it if that makes any sense. They can always hide behind that cloak of "it's just the internet." This applies to Christians as well. When you make a statement on the internet, it's a lot easier to make the comment in a more forceful tone because you're not looking or even talking to the person(s) involved real-time. Strangely enough, it makes people bold in some arenas, but this doesn't always seem to transfer over to good Scripture. If instead of being bold against Brother Bob's or Sister Sue to be rude, why not exert that energy on something positive for God? Two wrongs never make a right.

There's nothing new under the sun in terms of believers being mean to other believers. It's just a good bit more open now when it occurs as well...

I think when you're dealing with this detachment and human words, problems arise. I cannot count the time I've watched perfectly good folks go round and round at each others' throat because of word choice. That drives me crazy, but I've seen it happen time and again. I think we suffer from an increasingly simplified language (and communication skills) and we're dealing with powerful forces that love the chaos. It's also the culture of ego, and the folks like to be right.

Christ came to give us division, he told us himself:



Unfortunately it's not the divisions that have so much changed as it is how we handle those divisions.



We were warned about this, of course. There are many wolves in sheep's clothing out there, unfortunately.

Im sorry Hammerstone but i must correct you on your quote. You meant Luke 12:51. I have no argument with that scripture but what christ meant was Luke 12:52 and Luke 12:53 meaning that if your own family members are deceived than yes there will be division and if church members or close freinds are deceived and have accepted lies than yes there will be division. However division among like minded beleivers is very corrupt. Jude 1:18 and Jude 1:19. Unity is wonderfull among like minded beleivers. Psalms 133:1, Ephesians 4:3 and Ephesians 4:13.

 

[mjrhealth]

Its not the love that is growing cold, it is a divide growing between those who have the truth and those who do not. One can call them selves a chritsan, do all the churchy things, read the bible etc etc and as Jesus said,'They worship me with there lips but there hearts are far from me", sometimes i feel like i fit into that group, then those who are in Christ , who have the truth and are not offended. The reason why the pharrisees hated Jesus , is because He spoke the truth, and they believed a lie, and so they became offended, you can see that is some really simple posts when people get there backs up, without the other person really saying anything at all. The truth brings offense to the religious, just look around you, and as more thruth is reveled the division will grow into a great gulf, between the wheat and the tares, the sheep and the goats. Time is really short, find Jesus, man cant help you.

In HIs LOve

 

[ronniechoate34]

Hello everyone,

I lost my connection and thankfully someone replied to a topic I had been watching.
As a member of other boards which are Christian and some not. Is anyone else aware of the love between believers growing cold?
Some boards - believers welcome you and treat you kindly. Other boards they treat you badly. What is happening to the love of God.
Is there a definite growing cold of the love between believers? I am saddened at some of the things I have seen.
What is happening?

Faithful.

Yes, I have noticed.


And what's happening is called pride. It reaches way beyond these forums.

 

[HammerStone]

Im sorry Hammerstone but i must correct you on your quote. You meant Luke 12:51. I have no argument with that scripture but what christ meant was Luke 12:52 and Luke 12:53 meaning that if your own family members are deceived than yes there will be division and if church members or close freinds are deceived and have accepted lies than yes there will be division. However division among like minded beleivers is very corrupt. Jude 1:18 and Jude 1:19. Unity is wonderfull among like minded beleivers. Psalms 133:1, Ephesians 4:3 and Ephesians 4:13.

Not a problem, I typed a 3 instead of a 5, it happens. ;)

We'll have to agree to disagree on that quote. While I do concur that we are to strive for agreement (I Peter 3:8 and Philippians 2:2) - and we ultimately will as true believers - we're still going to get some things wrong. I think Christianity, even amongst the elect, is characterized by strife even over the simplest of terms or doctrines. I think some of this comes about as a result of passages like those in II John (which are the result of an earnest desire to be correct), but I think you can distinguish those by how the person handles their discussion be it on a forum or face-to-face. We're not Christ and we don't have the benefit of Father's omniscience so we don't know if that mind might change a day, week, or years later to the truth. There's only one unpardonable sin, and not understanding a certain passage of the Bible is not it.

Christ teaches us on many levels, and I don't think there is a difference here. Yes there is the apparent level of the believer and nonbeliever and then the believer and the deceived, but there's also a good bit of evidence for the believer and the believer. The whole chapter of Luke 12 seems to me to be addressing some of our common human conditions and problems. We have fear, we get anxious (worry), we tend to quarrel even when we agree, and we tend to become passionate about things that don't really matter (the clouds and the winds) that we don't see the forest for the trees. It is a lot of pride as Ronnie says, but it's predicted that love will grow cold because that pride is ultimately a desire to edify one's own self.

We like to be religious and we like to be holy, but sometimes we don't want to do the real legwork to get there. If Christians would approach everything with humility, things might be different. You're not out there to win every fight or to come up with the cleverest comeback. We're here to say what needs to be said. I think it's rich when these people say they're persecuted because their insulted. We don't have much comprehension of what it means to be martyred or what the prophets and apostles endured. Instead, take a step back, make your case (argue the doctrine not the person) and move on when what needed to be said was said.

All of this doesn't mean that we have to be politically correct or drop our defenses. We wear the gospel armor and should always be on guard. However, it's military strategy that you don't always respond with the heaviest force. (IE: You don't nuke the other nation when some infantry exchange fire or mutual allies don't go to war over a small trade dispute.) That's an example of hyperbole I know, but you get the point.

John 13:35
"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

That doesn't mean there aren't different types of love to applied from one situation to the next, but love will always build in the end just as our Savior did.

 

[gumby]

Not a problem, I typed a 3 instead of a 5, it happens. ;)

We'll have to agree to disagree on that quote. While I do concur that we are to strive for agreement (I Peter 3:8 and Philippians 2:2) - and we ultimately will as true believers - we're still going to get some things wrong. I think Christianity, even amongst the elect, is characterized by strife even over the simplest of terms or doctrines. I think some of this comes about as a result of passages like those in II John (which are the result of an earnest desire to be correct), but I think you can distinguish those by how the person handles their discussion be it on a forum or face-to-face. We're not Christ and we don't have the benefit of Father's omniscience so we don't know if that mind might change a day, week, or years later to the truth. There's only one unpardonable sin, and not understanding a certain passage of the Bible is not it.

Christ teaches us on many levels, and I don't think there is a difference here. Yes there is the apparent level of the believer and nonbeliever and then the believer and the deceived, but there's also a good bit of evidence for the believer and the believer. The whole chapter of Luke 12 seems to me to be addressing some of our common human conditions and problems. We have fear, we get anxious (worry), we tend to quarrel even when we agree, and we tend to become passionate about things that don't really matter (the clouds and the winds) that we don't see the forest for the trees. It is a lot of pride as Ronnie says, but it's predicted that love will grow cold because that pride is ultimately a desire to edify one's own self.

We like to be religious and we like to be holy, but sometimes we don't want to do the real legwork to get there. If Christians would approach everything with humility, things might be different. You're not out there to win every fight or to come up with the cleverest comeback. We're here to say what needs to be said. I think it's rich when these people say they're persecuted because their insulted. We don't have much comprehension of what it means to be martyred or what the prophets and apostles endured. Instead, take a step back, make your case (argue the doctrine not the person) and move on when what needed to be said was said.

All of this doesn't mean that we have to be politically correct or drop our defenses. We wear the gospel armor and should always be on guard. However, it's military strategy that you don't always respond with the heaviest force. (IE: You don't nuke the other nation when some infantry exchange fire or mutual allies don't go to war over a small trade dispute.) That's an example of hyperbole I know, but you get the point.



That doesn't mean there aren't different types of love to applied from one situation to the next, but love will always build in the end just as our Savior did.

Think nothing of it Hammerstone your still my beloved brother in christ even though we dont see eye to eye on some instances. But to that i would say name two christians who do see eye to eye on evrything :)

 

[ronniechoate34]

Think about this.


Ti:3:8: This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Ti:3:9: But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Ti:3:10: A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Ti:3:11: Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

 

[Martin W.]

I am semi retired but I spent a lifetime studying people , looking for motives , reading between the lines, reading clues (in people)

EVERYBODY HAS A MOTIVE FOR POSTING !!

I have continually observed something quite interesting and unique to most Christian forums. Here are a few:

Most posters remain anonymous (hide) and seldom use their proper identity. They prefer to remain shielded and to hide their true motives. Some do not want their motives exposed because it exposes them. People do not like to be examined too closely. They do not have the strength.

Most posts are directed at someone else but reveal some personal hatred in the hearts of the authors.

some examples
: hatred of anyone who does not use the KJV
: hatred of anyone who does uses the KJV
: hatred of anyone who does not beleive in the rapture
: hatred of anyone who does beleive in the rapture
: hatred of any denomination they do not belong to
: hatred of all denominations because they are non denominational
: hatred of anyone who does not agree with them

Just a few examples but you get the idea. Maybe hatred is too strong a word. "Really dislike" might be more appropriate. In other words many posters are really angry about something and want to let it be known publically ..... yet they themselves hide. They hide because they know their motive is wrong. A person can try to hide a lot of things but feelings and motive always come through. Even in the typed word.

Very seldom do you see a person ask a genuine question and get a genuine answer from a fellow christian in a helpful way. When it does happen you can be sure they will get dynamited out by the endless cut and paste people who can not stand on their own two feet and give an answer in their own words. Legalism.

Most posters hide behind some super religious fake names and pet religious words in order to appear super religious. They require the appearances because they lack the substance.

Many posters are attracted to forums in the hope that they can cultivate some like minded individuals to bolster their position and help gang up on those who do not hold similar views. It gives them religious strength. This they desire.

The most dangerous migrate their way into positions of power and control to be able to moderate or edit or banish those who threaten to expose their motives. That way they can retain an audience who say what their itching ears want to hear. Paul encountered them in his day as well. Some things never change.

Have I left anyone out? :)

By the way , I have motives too. I hope you can figure them out.

Best regards
Martin W.

 

[Martin W.]

Well, I think forums and all other forms of social media suffer from what I've come to call the "detached factor." It's funny how bold people will get on the internet.

Hi Denver

I pretty much gave a bit of my opinion in my previous post and just wanted to let you know I agree with what you say as well. Thank you.

If you notice I selected a portion of your post quoted above (I agree with it) but I have a lot of experience on other forums (non Christian) and have noticed the opposite of the internet detached factor.

They are generally professional forums , debating hotly contested matters of life , death , safety etc. It is extremely rare to see anyone bash another over differing views or take things too personal. If they make a mistake , or change their minds , they let all their original posts remain , recognize and admit they were wrong, and move forward in an ever learning environment.

My point Denver , is that if I ever saw such camaraderie on a christian forum I think it would knock me out of my chair. The secular world often acts like the best Christians should be acting .... yet we do not. Sometimes I find this puzzling.

For example they are still investigating S-92 helicopter accidents including the one off the Newfoundland coast last year which cost 17 lives. Some of the head designers and engineers on open public forums , using their full names , for years promoted the safety of the machine and defended it in public yet fully admit their shortcomings after the accidents, and they do it in full view of the whole world to see including reporters and lawyers and investigators.

These professionals (there are thousands of them ) have really big balls to expose themselves in such a manner . I know the term "big balls" is not proper christian terminology but I am going to use it anyway :)

My point is that these people take a stand in what they believe (engineering etc) , accept critical (engineering) opinion from all sides , and will admit when someone has corrected them. Even to the point of opening themselves to lawsuits.

How can they do that? Why do they expose themselves like that? Are they fools?

NO , they do it because they have ONE MOTIVE and it has always been to produce the highest performing safest flying machines possible. If they make a mistake they admit it and share the findings in a public manner.


Yet it is so Ironic that we Christians do not conduct ourselves in such a manner. We , who are supposed to survive tribulations , Armageddons , hellfire, and be men with the biggest balls on earth and stand up to the Antichrist .....


........ well we hide behind cute avatars , and fight , and throw KJV's at each other , we eat our wounded , shoot the weak, banish each other , edit , delete , and hide our mistakes ......


..... yet we still claim to be prepared to handle the enemy in the last days better than anyone could ever hope for. Something doesnt add up here. Our generation lives in the best of times this earth has ever seen and yet we are falling apart. (No unity) .

Another thing I find interesting , and in line with my earlier post about hearts and motives showing through the typed word, during my years on secular forums I have been able to figure out which people are Christians. I sometimes boldly ask them by Private Message and have never been wrong yet. Hearts and motives can indeed show through the typed word.

My post is getting too long , I have been studying these things for years and just wanted to share a bit. I guess my motive is the desire to see some of us internet Christians mimic some of the integrity of secular forums. It would be refreshing. I think if every internet christian was to take a fully disclosed public stand in front of the whole world you would see very few volunteers. That sounds too scary for most of us. However we claim we will handle the Antichrist if he should drop by tomorrow. Right?

If anyone has read this far here is a how a few ounces can destroy a 20,000 lb helicopter. The Sikorsky S-92 helicopter is indeed built very safely. It is considered state of the art. Somebody determined (correctly) that using titanium bolts to secure the transmission oil filter would save an ounce of weight and by using only three instead of four would save another ounce. The harmonics of all the vibrations of the main transmission coincided with the cosine wave frequency of titanium vulnerability and two of the three bolts (studs) broke in flight. Using stainless steel studs eliminated the problem. The serious aspect is not the failure of the bolts so much as the fact that a couple of safety professionals knew about the weakness a few months ahead of time and did not take a stand and report it as urgent. They chose to hide it and will pay for endless lawsuits.

I often ask myself if really tough times come upon this world , will I take a strong stand for Jesus or will I run and hide? I also ask myself why is it that criminals are very honest about themselves (their shortcomings) and Christians are very dishonest about themselves (their shortcomings). You would think it should be the other way around.

Maybe some things never change. Jesus could always connect with the prostitute in the gutter but never with the Pharisee. The Pharisee was a scriptural expert in his day and was highly regarded. That is pretty good considering the KJV was not even printed yet. Sorry folks. I couldn't resist that one. I think we mimic the Pharisee too often. Myself included.

Martin W.

 

[sniper762]

diisagreeing with another's interpretation of scripture has nothing to do with love. maybe its the rejection or loss of pride that the offended one feels that makes them feel unloved.

 

[ronniechoate34]

I think that all too often people tend to judge those people who disagree with them as hate mongers. It seems that the more zealous for the truth a man gets the more stones those around him throw at him. Calling such an one full of hate is easy, and it's also effective at deterring the hearers from seeking the truth. Is it a righteous and good thing to pass such a judgment? I doubt it. I've been called hateful on these forums lots of times. Does that mean that I'm full of hate? Absolutely not. It simply means that someone is passing judgment as if they walk my heart. No one but the Holy Ghost knows what's in my heart.



It's been my experience that the ones who pass such judgments only do so because their position isn't well supported by the actual facts. I have walked away from many personal attacks because of my beliefs, without once resorting to purposing that I know the contents of anyone's heart. Though I have been tempted.

 

[Brother Mike]

Martin........

Very seldom do you see a person ask a genuine question and get a genuine answer from a fellow christian in a helpful way. When it does happen you can be sure they will get dynamited out by the endless cut and paste people who can not stand on their own two feet and give an answer in their own words. Legalism.

Most posters hide behind some super religious fake names and pet religious words in order to appear super religious. They require the appearances because they lack the substance.

Many posters are attracted to forums in the hope that they can cultivate some like minded individuals to bolster their position and help gang up on those who do not hold similar views. It gives them religious strength. This they desire.

I have to agree with Martin on this. Martin and I also have different views on scripture, but agree on tons of stuff also. Though there are some bad ones, for the most part a lot of people put aside differences to help someone in those rare occasions where someone humbly needs help.

I have to respect Martins years of study, and as God's Child. To think God has not shown him anything would be extremely prideful.

Hammerstone is correct, most that get on these forums know tons of scripture, and so going back and fourth on doctrine is very common. It keeps us focused in what we believe, and change if we need to. It also keeps us in the Word, looking up more scriptures. There is a detachment here, but I don't see the love of God effected.

There are some though............ but they are everywhere that do not walk in God's love, and fall into the category's listed above in all the post.

I am Word of Faith, So I fully expect to get shot at with double barrel scriptures. However, outside of a few crazy ones, I don't feel that anyone has walked out of love toward me.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Its not the love that is growing cold, it is a divide growing between those who have the truth and those who do not. One can call them selves a chritsan, do all the churchy things, read the bible etc etc and as Jesus said,'They worship me with there lips but there hearts are far from me", sometimes i feel like i fit into that group, then those who are in Christ , who have the truth and are not offended. The reason why the pharrisees hated Jesus , is because He spoke the truth, and they believed a lie, and so they became offended, you can see that is some really simple posts when people get there backs up, without the other person really saying anything at all. The truth brings offense to the religious, just look around you, and as more thruth is reveled the division will grow into a great gulf, between the wheat and the tares, the sheep and the goats. Time is really short, find Jesus, man cant help you.

In HIs LOve

Well said.

Nobody get's mad if you tell them what they want to hear. They sure get ate up when you tell them what they NEED to hear, ROFLOL

 

[HFGirl]

Well, I am new to the Christian boards, but I hope that what I find are friendly, loving people.
Blessings.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Well, I am new to the Christian boards, but I hope that what I find are friendly, loving people.
Blessings.

Most of the people I've encountered on this particular forum are solid.

 

[HFGirl]

Most of the people I've encountered on this particular forum are solid.

That's cool.

And let's all remember to pray for those who have not been showing love lately.
Luke 6(NIV):
32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.


For those who claim to be desciples of Christ, I will remind you of the following verses:
John 13(NIV)
34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

 

[fivesense]

Hello everyone,

I lost my connection and thankfully someone replied to a topic I had been watching.
As a member of other boards which are Christian and some not. Is anyone else aware of the love between believers growing cold?
Some boards - believers welcome you and treat you kindly. Other boards they treat you badly. What is happening to the love of God.
Is there a definite growing cold of the love between believers? I am saddened at some of the things I have seen.

What is happening?

Faithful.

If one is chosen by God to be called-out, to separate from the world unto sanctification and the new creation, the goals for that one are radically changed. God begins His workmanship, conforming the person into His Son's image, in order to gorify him or her at His advent.

Much of what passes for love in this life, especially amongst believers, is merely human sentiment. I myself enjoy that, for being social and civil requires the ability to empathize with others feelings. But "feel-goodism" is the world's calling card, and they seek to practice it to the extreme. That's because they have left off judgment concerning sin and unrighteousness, and desire to be "right and good", without the aid of the Divine One. It is humanity trying its best to dethrone God and deny the wicked act of the Crucifixion.

Paul elucidates what love is, in his Corinthian letter, and it points to the God of heaven, who is Love. We are to imitate Him while in this life, and do so by His power and grace. But God is also light, and in Him is no darkness at all, and if we are to be like Him, darkness in ourselves and others sometimes becomes an issue.

If we harbor error or lies in our hearts, God will seek to release us, His elect, from bondage to it. Weaknesses get exposed, sin uncovered, and unbelief comes into the light, sometimes with great fanfare and humiliation to the carrier. If we remain hidden and self-assured about ourselves, with no one to challenge us, we will miss out on the conforming of our minds to the truth. It would be a terrible loss to God, as well as us, if we were unwilling to be subjected to scrutiny for our beliefs and feelings.

There is coming a great departure from the faith, the faith of Christ, in these latter days. The true sons and daughters of God are being pressed out by both the enemy who is going to give up his position for the Body, and the Father of Spirits Who is wanting to see His Son's travail come to fruition-the manifestation of the sons of God. The process requires winnowing and chastening, and not partaking of the process is a danger signal to the one outside of it. Be blessed when you are spoken evil of, rejoice when you are despised for your faith. It is proof of the Father working in you both to will and do of His delight.
fivesense