Is it possible to lose salvation?

[mailmandan]

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Here he is after realizing I'm not falling for it.

He just can't get over it!

 

[nedsk]

Where did I say the Book of James is wrong. You are thinking of the greasy grace people

It's the catholics that are adding error to God's Word leading to their own deception.

They heap to themselves ear tickling false teachers having itching ears.

They pray to Jesus' momma, to dead saints, and twirl their rosary beads none of which is of God.

The brown scapular is meaningless and will do the catholics no good in the end, so just be aware.

Look you can mock me all you like the more you do the more I know I'm right. Faith by itself is useless. God gave you people a brain for thinking but if it was a used car it would have very low mileage

 

[bro.tan]

1 Corinthians 9:21-27
21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

In these verses, Paul's main topic is how he shares the Gospel (i.e. "win those who are without the law," "by all means save some," "do all things for the sake of the Gospel). All that follows from this point remains oriented on this topic.

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

We know that Paul still had the matter of sharing the Gospel in view in these verses because he says so in verse 27: "...after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified." It was for the sake of doing so, for the sake of preaching the Gospel, that Paul exercised "self-control in all things," disciplining his body and making it his slave. He did not want to be "disqualified," or shown to be a hypocrite, denying in his conduct the things he proclaimed about the Gospel. It was not, then, fear of losing his salvation, or of not doing enough to have earned it, that motivated Paul's self-discipline. He had in view in the passage above only how best to evangelize the lost.

What is the "imperishable wreath" Paul mentioned? It is the reward God gives to those who "build" well upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Paul wrote about this reward in his letter to the believers at Corinth:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Here, the "reward" isn't salvation (which is a gift and cannot, therefore, be earned - Ro. 5:15; Eph. 2:8-9). We know this because the bad "builder" whose "building" is entirely burned up is still saved, "yet so as through fire" (or, with the smoke of hell on his clothes/by the skin of his teeth).

This passage from 1 Corinthians 9 is, then, not dealing with the matter of how one is saved but, rather, about how one ought to act so as not to be disqualified as an evangelist.

You reading from another Bible, but Also Paul says in Colossians 1: 23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So what happen if you do not continue in the faith, because you are not grounded and your hope of the gospel is not strong. A person might give up. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

 

[bro.tan]

In 1 Corinthians 9:27, Paul is talking about being disqualified for the prize (NIV) and not disqualified for the gift of eternal life. In context, Paul has been discussing preaching the gospel. 1 Corinthians 9:16 - For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.

In verses 24-27 he illustrates this thought of his reward by the picture of a race run for the prize. Salvation is a gift that we receive by grace through faith, (Ephesians 2:8,9) and not a prize that we race for, win and earn.

Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That does not sound like a free gift to me. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.

1 Corinthians 9:24 - "Do you not know that those who run in a race ALL run, but ONLY ONE receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it." In an Olympic race, all runners run but only one receives the gold medal. So, what happens to the runners that receive the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or for the prize?

Paul says in (Heb. 3:14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; You must believe in what you are doing that’s what faith is, you most be confident unto the end. You must keep God’s law until death or until the coming of the Lord, if you expect salvation.

 

[nedsk]

Here he is after realizing I'm not falling for it.

He just can't get over it!

View attachment 65236

I've never seen someone so proud of being so wrong as you. You might as well embrace it.

 

[mailmandan]

Paul says in (Heb. 3:14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; You must believe in what you are doing that’s what faith is, you most be confident unto the end. You must keep God’s law until death or until the coming of the Lord, if you expect salvation.

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

The wording is not - "and you will become (future indicative) partakers of Christ if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast."

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers of Christ and of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as having become partakers of Christ will have been those who held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end.

Now what about those faltering Hebrews who begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty but then later depart? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion. You must believe to the saving of the soul and not draw back to perdition (Hebrews 10:39) if you expect salvation.

 

[Kokyu]

You reading from another Bible, but Also Paul says in Colossians 1: 23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So what happen if you do not continue in the faith, because you are not grounded and your hope of the gospel is not strong. A person might give up. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

Colossians 1:21-23
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

What is God's standard for His acceptance of us? How good do we have to be in order to be accepted by God? Jesus stated that we must be perfect as God is perfect (Matt. 5:48). None of us can meet that standard, however. See Romans 3:10, 23; 5:6-11; Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3:3, etc. And so, Jesus is perfect for us, meeting God's standard on our behalf, and paying the penalty of our sin, also. Without Jesus as our Mediator (1 Ti. 2:5), without him being the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29), we have no hope of ever being accepted by God as "joint-heirs with Christ" (Ro. 8:17).

For those who, by faith in Jesus as their Savior and submission to him as their Lord (Ro. 10:9-10) have "put on Christ" (Ro. 13:14; Ga. 3:27), God's standard for acceptance is met. God, the Father is always eternally accepting of God, the Son and so those in the Son (2 Co. 5:17) are also always accepted by God (Eph. 1:1-13). This is the sole basis upon which God accepts any human being. No other basis is perfect as Jesus is perfect and so, no other basis will do; not our works, not our faithfulness, not our sacrifice, only the redemption, justification and sanctification given to us helpless sinners in Jesus (1 Co. 1:30; Eph. 2:8-9; 2 Ti. 1:9; Ti. 3:5).

In light of these things, how ought I to understand the passage above from Paul's letter to believers at Colosse? Can he be saying that I can lose my salvation? How so, if God accepts me only because I am "in Christ"? God tells me repeatedly in His word that my works have nothing whatever to do with my being saved by Him. He makes it crystal clear that in-and-of myself I have nothing to offer Him that He will accept. There is only one Savior and I ain't him (John 14:6; Ac. 4:12). And his salvation of me must be perfect or it won't meet God's standard. I don't even know what perfection actually is, and I certainly can't be perfect, so what is it I think I can contribute to Christ's salvation of me that God would accept? Well, nothing. Not one thing. So why on earth do I think I can do anything to keep my salvation? I could do nothing to be saved but receive salvation and there is nothing I can do once saved but continue to receive from God His life and work in me.

So, then, what is Paul saying in the passage above? Well, he's actually very clear: If I don't become firmly established in the faith and steadfast in it, Christ cannot present me to God at the Final Judgment "holy and blameless and beyond reproach." Without a settled, unmoving faith in the Gospel and in God's Truth, I will inevitably get caught up in sin. The carnal "infants in Christ" who were the Corinthian believers are a good example (1 Co. 3, 5, 6, 11). The five bad churches of Revelation 2-3, particularly Sardis and Laodicea, also demonstrate what Paul wrote to the Colossians. The believers in Galatia illustrate this as well (Ga. 3:3). These were all born-again brethren who were not steadfast in the faith and so, were mired in carnality, spiritual apathy and legalistic law-keeping. But they were all of them still "temples of the Holy Spirit," "brethren," and "in Christ."

What Paul doesn't say in the Colossians 1 passage above is that a saved person can become unsaved, that, having been saved by Christ, they have the power to undo his saving work. This sort of view of his words is not extracted from what he wrote but forced into them.