Is it possible to lose salvation?

[JLB]

First of all – NOT everything in Revelation is a “future” event. MANY things have already come to pass.

The Woman in Rev. 12 gives birth to the Messiah (“who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter”), who was “snatched up to God and to his throne.” He came out of Isreal – more specifically, from His mother Mary.

‘sorry but that event happened in the past.

Revelation 4 says plainly… come up here and I will show you things to come “after this”.

That means in the future.


After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.” Revelation 4:1


Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. Revelation 11:1-2


The temple will be rebuilt.

42 months refers to the time of the great tribulation.

 

[Behold]

Paul died one fine day.

And so will you. @GodsGrace

Paul's beheading, wasn't exaclty a fine day for the body of Christ, as Paul was the one writing all the Letters that explained to them the Doctrine for the Church.
Paul had wanted to leave the earth long before He left it, but stayed because it was needful for Him to continue to write all the doctrine, and start more NT Churches.

You know who decided what was heresy in the early church?
First it was the Apostles.

Its Paul's Letters that define what is true theology, and what isn't.

For example...
Here is a false one given by the MaryCult.
They teach that if you are to become a Priest, you can't have a wife.
So, this is denying marriage to a Priest, as their requirement to become a Priest.

Paul teaches in Tim 4, that there will be "doctrines of devils" that will be taught to the Church, and one of them is "Denying Marriage".

And to think that they weren't even inspired!

No one was inspired by the Holy Spirit to teach that Mary flew to heaven in her dead body.
No one was inspired by the Holy Spirit to teach that collecting dead body parts is of God.

Need me to show you the list again?

The MaryCult is a Cult.
Its origins are Pagan.. and Gnostic. And the pagan aspect of it, is related to Goddess Diana worship, of whom the Pagans taught, before Christ was born, = that their Goddess Diana is a "perpetual virgin" and the "queen of heaven".

They even got to decide which letters went into the NT.
Paul wasn't around for that either.

Yet they put Paul's epistles in the NT.
So, he didnt have to "be around"

So SOMEONE had to decide which of his letters to include!

They were all included.
Peter had already stated they were all "Scripture" before the word "Catholic" was ever used by the MaryCult.

And Peter WAS the first Bishop of Rome (later came to be known as THE POPE)

The title "Bishop" comes from Paul's teaching on how to choose one for a Local Church.
Of course you would not know this..., as you spend all your time defending a cult, instead of all those years learning some bible.
I dont see this changing.

and the other 4 POPES went to him for advice when problems arose.

At one time in the History of the MaryCult... there were 6 Popes, and each was saying the other was the "Anti-Christ".
You should find out how that was sorted out.

 

[nedsk]

nedsk
Some are afraid of church history....I truly believe this.
Maybe they're afraid of what they'll learn?
Maybe they'll find out that what they believe was NEVER part of the early church.

I'd rather learn from someone that knew John and learned from HIM...
than someone that came along a few hundred years ago,,,,kept some church teachings,,,,
but with time many of even those got thrown out.

Too many odd ideas that some label as Christian.
I really fear for our "religion".....one of the top 3 world-wide.
and
the right one I truly believe.

Whats worse than being ignorant is not wanting to learn. They refuse to look at the truth. Ive asked them where was the Holy Spirit for the first 1500 years of Christianity. Im still waiting for an answer

 

[BreadOfLife]

‘sorry but that event happened in the past.

Revelation 4 says plainly… come up here and I will show you things to come “after this”.

That means in the future.

After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.” Revelation 4:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. Revelation 11:1-2

The temple will be rebuilt.

42 months refers to the time of the great tribulation.

That was my poin ALL along.
Mary already gave birth to the Messiah, Jesus.
Satan and his agels were already cast out of Heaven.

NOT sure where you're going with this.

 

[Behold]

They refuse to look at the truth.

Take a good look at this and find some truth. @GodsGrace
-
-
1.. Sacried Tradition
The Catholic Church views their own Sacred Tradition as their most important source of revelation, meaning that a good majority of Catholic teachings are not found in any verse in any Bible. This contrasts with most Protestant denominations that emphasize sola scriptura(Scripture alone).

2.) . Purgatory
The concept of Purgatory, a state of purification after death for those who die in God's grace but still need cleansing, is not found in the Bible. The MaryCult also prays for souls in purgatory, which again is not found in any verse in any Bible.

3.) Mary's Assumption and Immaculate Conception:
These are Mary Cult doctrines that developed over time and are not found in any verse in any Bible. The Assumption refers to Mary's bodily ascension into heaven, (in her dead body, she flew there).....while the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being conceived without original sin, which is another MaryCult false doctrine that is not found in any verse in any Bible.

4.). Transubstantiation:
This doctrine, central to the man made MaryCult theology regarding the ""Eucharist"", states that the bread and wine offered in the Mass are transformed into the literal body and blood of Christ. This specific explanation of transubstantiation is not found in any Bible verse in any Bible.

5.) The Authority of the Pope:
The Catholic Church believes and teaches that the Pope, as the successor of Saint Peter, has a unique authority as the head of the Church, a role not found in the Bible, in any verse, in any bible. The MarCult in fact beleive and teach that He is the mouthpiece of God, Himself. This is not found in any verse in any Bible.

6.) . Other FALSE Practices and Teachings:

Other False MaryCult practices not found in any verse in any Bible include..

Infant Baptism for Salvation is not found in any Bible.

Veneration of Saints is not found in any Bible.

Removing and collecting Dead Body Parts ( RELICS).. is not found in any Bible.

Praying the Rosary is not found in any Bible.

The use of Holy Water is not found in any Bible.

Feast days for Mary are not found in any Bible

 

[BreadOfLife]

Its Paul's Letters that define what is true theology, and what isn't.

For example...
Here is a false one given by the MaryCult.
They teach that if you are to become a Priest, you can't have a wife.
So, this is denying marriage to a Priest, as their requirement to become a Priest.

WRONG.
There are MANY married priests in the Eastern Rites.

Do your homework . . .

Paul teaches in Tim 4, that there will be "doctrines of devils" that will be taught to the Church, and one of them is "Denying Marriage".

And for anybody who knows first century history – they understand that he was talking about the Gnostic heretics and NOT his fellow Catholics.

1 Tim 4:3
They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

The Gnostics forbade marriage – for EVERYONE.
They rejected ALL material possessions as “evil”.
They forbade the eating of certain foods.

If you had actually done your homework instead of vomiting out your usual ignorance, you would have known this . . .

No one was inspired by the Holy Spirit to teach that Mary flew to heaven in her dead body.
No one was inspired by the Holy Spirit to teach that collecting dead body parts is of God.

Need me to show you the list again?

And NOBODY was inspired to invent false doctrines in the 16th century like Sola Scriptura and Eternal Security. . .
NOBODY was inspired to teach things “Infant Dedications” and a Pre-Trib “Rapture” . . .

The MaryCult is a Cult.

You mean, like Protestantism is a cult - with all of its unbiblical, man-made doctrines??
Like that?

Its origins are Pagan.. and Gnostic. And the pagan aspect of it, is related to Goddess Diana worship, of whom the Pagans taught, before Christ was born, = that their Goddess Diana is a "perpetual virgin" and the "queen of heaven".

The Egyptian god, Horus was regarded as “King of Heaven”.
SAME with the African god, Mulungu, and SAME with the Turkish god, Tangri.
Does that mean Jesus is a fraud?

Just because there are pagan similarities to Christianity does NOT mean that one got their beliefs from the other.
Do your homework, son . . .

Yet they put Paul's epistles in the NT.
So, he didnt have to "be around"

And the“they” was the Catholic Church, with its God-given Authority to declare the Canon of Scripture (Matt. 16:19; 18-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15).

Matt 16:19, 18:18
WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

The title "Bishop" comes from Paul's teaching on how to choose one for a Local Church.
Of course you would not know this..., as you spend all your time defending a cult, instead of all those years learning some bible.
I dont see this changing.

Time for a BIBLE Lesson . . .

In Acts 1, about 120 disciples of Jesus gathered to select a successor for Judas.
Peter, being the leader got up and spoke, quoting Psalms:

Acts 1:20
“For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:
“‘May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,’
and, “‘May another take his place of leadership.’

The Greek word used here for “leadership” is ‘Episkopay’, whish is translated as Bishopric.
This is long before Paul joined the Church or wrote a SINGLE Epistle . . .

At one time in the History of the MaryCult... there were 6 Popes, and each was saying the other was the "Anti-Christ".
You should find out how that was sorted out.

WRONG, son.

There has never been a time in history where there were more than THREE claimants to the Papacy (1409-1414).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As I have already educated you – “Firstborn” in Jewish culture simply refers to “he who opens the womb.”

Exod. 13:1
Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Consecrate to Me all the firstborn, whatever opens the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and beast; it is Mine.”

It’s a Hebrew term (בכור/bek-ore') – not Greek, so you LOSE this argument . . .

No you have no qualifications to educate anyone. You have lied about the Hebrew as well as the Greek.

Hebrew:

bᵊḵôr
Pronunciation
bek-ore'

Part of Speech
masculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From בָּכַר (H1069)
Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 244a
Variant Spellings
The following spelling is supported by Strongs and Gesenius: בכור.
KJV Translation Count — Total: 117x
The KJV translates Strong's H1060 in the following manner: firstborn (101x), firstling (10x), eldest (4x), firstborn (with H1121) (1x), eldest son (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. firstborn, firstling
   1. of men and women
   2. of animals

Greek:

prōtotokos (Key)
Pronunciation
pro-tot-ok'-os

Part of Speech
adjective
Root Word (Etymology)
From πρῶτος (G4413) and the alternate of τίκτω (G5088)
Greek Inflections of πρωτότοκος [?]
mGNT
8x in 4 unique form(s) TR
9x in 4 unique form(s) LXX
127x in 9 unique form(s)
πρωτότοκα — 1x
πρωτότοκον — 4x
πρωτότοκος — 3x
πρωτοτόκων — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 6:871,965
KJV Translation Count — Total: 9x
The KJV translates Strong's G4416 in the following manner: firstborn (7x), first begotten (2x).

1. the firstborn
   1. of man or beast
   2. of Christ, the first born of all creation
2. Your vain efforts do not hold to facts.

 

[Behold]

WRONG.
There are MANY married priests in the Eastern Rites.

So, if i can find a diamond in a pig's pen, ive found a diamond mine?
That is what you are trying to prove?
That the EXCEPTION proves the Rule?

So, if the Catholic Church wont allow Priests, in How many Countries ????????, to be married, then this does not prove they deny marriage, because they allow marriage in the "eastern rights'.

-funny

Do your homework . . .

And for anybody who knows first century history – they understand that he was talking about the Gnostic heretics and NOT his fellow Catholics.

The Father of Gnosticism, is Valentinus.
He almost became a POPE.

Do some historical reseach, and ask yourself....>How could a devout Gnostic, almost become a POPE.

1 Tim 4:3
They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

Yes, that verse is listing a few "doctrines of Devils"..

The main one is "forbibbing to Marry".. not allowing it.....and that is the MaryCult.

The Gnostics forbade marriage – for EVERYONE.

The MaryCult, forbide marriage, regarding their Priests, in most countries.
Why dont you explain to an American Catholic Priest why a Priest in the "Eastern Rites" gets to enjoy His Wife.

Good luck with that.

The Egyptian god, Horus was regarded as “King of Heaven”.

The MaryCult simply rebranded "Diana" as "Mary" and kept some of her Pagan designations.

"queen of heaven"

"perpetual virgin".

The oldest MaryCult church, was built in Ephesus, using the Temple mount that was Diana's actual Temple.

Do the research.
Find out about your cult.

And the“they” was the Catholic Church, with its God-given Authority to declare the Canon of Scripture (Matt. 16:19; 18-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15).

You are posting Catholic Theology, not NT theology.

There has never been a time in history where there were more than THREE claimants to the Papacy (1409-1414).

During the 'Wester Schism" (1378–1417) you had more the 3 "Popes' claiming the Crown., each saying the other was the "Anti-Christ".

 

[GodsGrace]

And so will you. @GodsGrace

Paul's beheading, wasn't exaclty a fine day for the body of Christ, as Paul was the one writing all the Letters that explained to them the Doctrine for the Church.
Paul had wanted to leave the earth long before He left it, but stayed because it was needful for Him to continue to write all the doctrine, and start more NT Churches.

Please explain to me WHY YOU could post scripture that sounds as if a person could never lose salvation once they've "accepted" Jesus and I could post scripture that sounds as if a person COULD lose salvation after they've "accepted" Jesus.

Looks like maybe Paul didn't do such a good job of writing down Christian theology.

Would you say it's problematic for a book to represent two sides as being true?
WHICH side would be the truth?

And you THINK that if Paul had died earlier,,,,the church would have just died?

Do you remember that Jesus stated that nothing would stop His church?
I don't remember Him mentioning Paul in that statement.

Matthew 16:18-19
18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever * you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever * you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."


Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail over His church.
He put Peter in charge of it.....

Paul was a good writer of theology,,,
but PETER was the head of the new church and in that he was looked up to by the other leaders of the area because He knew Jesus
and knew what Jesus taught.

Its Paul's Letters that define what is true theology, and what isn't.

For example...
Here is a false one given by the MaryCult.
They teach that if you are to become a Priest, you can't have a wife.
So, this is denying marriage to a Priest, as their requirement to become a Priest.

Your ignorance is spectacular.
The early church DID NOT forbid the marriage of priests.
The early church followed the teachings of Jesus and were passed on to the next generation.
Something you refuse to learn.

It was not until about the 13th century that it was decided that priests should remain unmarried.
Those that wish to be a priest KNOW THIS and agree to it.
SOME priests believe it is impossible to pastor a congregation AND be married.

You really need to learn some history.

Paul teaches in Tim 4, that there will be "doctrines of devils" that will be taught to the Church, and one of them is "Denying Marriage".

For goodness sake Behold.....
Have you ever heard of gnostics?
Did you know that they were invading the church from the very beginning?
Did you know that John was referring to THEM in 1 John 2:19?
Of course not....you prefer to remain in the dark.

Paul mentions two specific points in which the false teachers of his day were mistaken. These are both consistent with the heresy of Gnosticism. Gnostics believe that all physical matter is evil; therefore, the human body, all forms of sexuality, and pleasant food were labelled as evil. As a result, the Gnostics rejected marriage and taught people not to eat certain foods.

source: What does 1 Timothy 4:3 mean? | BibleRef.com.

Some gnostics believed marriage was evil because it concerned the body.
Some gnostics believed in liberal matters having to do with the body because they believed the body was separate from the spirit.

Learn some stuff Behold.

No one was inspired by the Holy Spirit to teach that Mary flew to heaven in her dead body.

You don't KNOW what the early Christians believed because you haven't read them.

No one was inspired by the Holy Spirit to teach that collecting dead body parts is of God.

Aren't you happy that the Shroud was preserved??
I am.

Need me to show you the list again?

The MaryCult is a Cult.
Its origins are Pagan.. and Gnostic. And the pagan aspect of it, is related to Goddess Diana worship, of whom the Pagans taught, before Christ was born, = that their Goddess Diana is a "perpetual virgin" and the "queen of heaven".

I've stated that I won't reply to any mention of CULT.
There are plenty of cults for you to address without including the Mother of God.

Yet they put Paul's epistles in the NT.
So, he didnt have to "be around"

Who is THEY?
You're referring to the Catholic Church.
Happily for YOU the CC DID assemble the NT.
ALL of it...not just Paul's letters.

So we agree that he didn't have to be around.

They were all included.
Peter had already stated they were all "Scripture" before the word "Catholic" was ever used by the MaryCult.

Doesn't deny that the CC was the ONLY church at that time.
And it was still the CC after a couple of hundred years, that declared the authorized NT writings....
NOT Peter when he wrote his letter.

The title "Bishop" comes from Paul's teaching on how to choose one for a Local Church.
Of course you would not know this..., as you spend all your time defending a cult, instead of all those years learning some bible.
I dont see this changing.

History Behold.
HOW MANY TIMES have I explained this to you?

For those reading along that may be interested...the information is readily available online these days.

There were FIVE BISHOPS as heads of the new religion known as Christianity at the end of the first century.
Each one headed a region.....
ROME
JERUSALEM
ANTIOCH
CONSTANTINOPLE
ALEXANDRIA

When there was A QUESTION regarding a doctrine, it is accepted scholarly knowledge that the other 4 went to Peter.

All 5 were called POPE....an endearing term meaning Dad.
I believe it was in the 3rd or 4th century that it was decided to give the title POPE to ONLY the Bishop of Rome....
thus the title of PONTIFEX MAXIMUS.....
thus making him the head of the CC.

At one time in the History of the MaryCult... there were 6 Popes, and each was saying the other was the "Anti-Christ".
You should find out how that was sorted out.

What?
You can't tell the difference between an onion and a potatoe.

Like I've been telling you:
Go learn some church history.

And there were never 6 Popes. This has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Grailhunter]

It is an impossibility, to be given a gift, you didn't ask for it, you did nothing to get the gift and to think man can rise to the level of God to lose it. God has Sovereign authority over all aspects of your salvation; man cannot do anything on his own. As Jesus told Pilate, you have no power except what is given from above.

Wrong on both counts….You do, do something to be saved. You choose Christ and have faith in him and repent and are Baptised and participate in the Bread and Wine Ritual and do your best to lead a moral life….so you are a participant in your salvation ….if you don’t do these things you can send us a postcard from Hell.

And yes you can lose your salvation….the scriptures warn about losing your salvation and say you can lose your salvation.

Universalism and Once Saved Always Saved beliefs serve Satan and lead people down the path to Hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

Take a good look at this and find some truth. @GodsGrace

Truth Behold?
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH.

This is why you reject history.

-
-
1.. Sacried Tradition
The Catholic Church views their own Sacred Tradition as their most important source of revelation, meaning that a good majority of Catholic teachings are not found in any verse in any Bible. This contrasts with most Protestant denominations that emphasize sola scriptura(Scripture alone).

Every Catholic tradition is found somewhere in scripture.
Tradition is not considered more important than the bible...but complements it.

Sola Scripture, OTOH, is a TRADITION that began in the 1500's.

Usually, anything coming to be believed after 1,500 years of a religion's beginning....
will be wrong and most probably belong to a CULT.

I give you:
MUHAMMAD
JOHN SMITH
CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL
ELLEN WHITE

2.) . Purgatory
The concept of Purgatory, a state of purification after death for those who die in God's grace but still need cleansing, is not found in the Bible. The MaryCult also prays for souls in purgatory, which again is not found in any verse in any Bible.

A case could be made for purgatory.
Nothing unclean will enter into heaven.
John wrote this AFTER the crucifixion.

They also use 1 Corinthians 3:15....as support.
They also use Matthew 5:25 to show that every penny must be paid in order to be let out.

See Behold...
THIS is the problem with sola scriptura.
I could even prove that purgatory exists.

3.) Mary's Assumption and Immaculate Conception:
These are Mary Cult doctrines that developed over time and are not found in any verse in any Bible. The Assumption refers to Mary's bodily ascension into heaven, (in her dead body, she flew there).....while the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being conceived without original sin, which is another MaryCult false doctrine that is not found in any verse in any Bible.

The IC is from the beginning and I very much agree with this doctrine.

If YOU wish to believe that God put the body of HIS SON into the body of a sinful woman....
that is your prerogative.

I don't believe so.

4.). Transubstantiation:
This doctrine, central to the man made MaryCult theology regarding the ""Eucharist"", states that the bread and wine offered in the Mass are transformed into the literal body and blood of Christ. This specific explanation of transubstantiation is not found in any Bible verse in any Bible.

Again...your ignorance shines through.
Actually, the early theologians - those taught by the Apostles - believed that they were consuming the body and blood of Jesus.

5.) The Authority of the Pope:
The Catholic Church believes and teaches that the Pope, as the successor of Saint Peter, has a unique authority as the head of the Church, a role not found in the Bible, in any verse, in any bible. The MarCult in fact beleive and teach that He is the mouthpiece of God, Himself. This is not found in any verse in any Bible.

I'd say that PROTESTANTISM is in DIRE need of a Pope...
Maybe we should be agreeing on AT LEAST the basics?
But we cannot even do that.

6.) . Other FALSE Practices and Teachings:

Other False MaryCult practices not found in any verse in any Bible include..

Infant Baptism for Salvation is not found in any Bible.

It is, but I'm not debating baptism here.
Infants were ALWAYS baptized.

I've explained this to you many times too.
Don't you ever CHECK OUT what the NT implies?

Are you SO AFRAID of history?
This certainly does not show any confidence in your faith.

Veneration of Saints is not found in any Bible.

We could venerate anybody.
As long as we don't worship them.

Removing and collecting Dead Body Parts ( RELICS).. is not found in any Bible.

Praying the Rosary is not found in any Bible.

The use of Holy Water is not found in any Bible.

Feast days for Mary are not found in any Bible

Believing man has no free will is not found in the bible.
Believing God created and causes evil is not found in the bible.
Believing saying a prayer and one is saved forever is not found in the bible.
Believing oral tradition is wrong is not found in the bible.
Believing a person never has to confess their sins after "accepting" Jesus is not found in the bible.
Believing Jesus is NOT God is not found in the bible.
Believing satan does not exist is not found in the bible.

I'm sure there's more.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, if i can find a diamond in a pig's pen, ive found a diamond mine?
That is what you are trying to prove?
That the EXCEPTION proves the Rule?

No - just exposing your LIES again

YOU claimed that they were forbidden to marry . . .

So, if the Catholic Church wont allow Priests, in How many Countries ????????, to be married, then this does not prove they deny marriage, because they allow marriage in the "eastern rights'.

-funny

WRONG again.
It has nothing to do with countries or locations.

Priestly celibacy is a discipline not a doctrine - in the Roman/Latin Rite Church.

The Father of Gnosticism, is Valentinus.
He almost became a POPE.
Do some historical reseach, and ask yourself....>How could a devout Gnostic, almost become a POPE.

WRONG, sparky . . .

Gnosticism was a FIRST century det of beliefs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

Valentinus was a Gnostic who lived in the SECOND century. And, if YOU believe that he almost became the Pope – then YOU are admitting that the Catholic Church hoes ALL the way back to the Apostles.

Checkmate . . .

Yes, that verse is listing a few "doctrines of Devils"..

The main one is "forbibbing to Marry".. not allowing it.....and that is the MaryCult.

WRONG again, son.

The Catholic Church does NOT forbid marriage.
The Gnostics DID.

The MaryCult, forbide marriage, regarding their Priests, in most countries.
Why dont you explain to an American Catholic Priest why a Priest in the "Eastern Rites" gets to enjoy His Wife.

Good luck with that.

Your ignorance is astounding . . .

I personally know “American Catholic” Priests who are married.
It’s NOT about where you live, son. It’s a discipline that is not imposed on Eastern rites.

The MaryCult simply rebranded "Diana" as "Mary" and kept some of her Pagan designations.
"queen of heaven"
"perpetual virgin".
The oldest MaryCult church, was built in Ephesus, using the Temple mount that was Diana's actual Temple.
Do the research.
Find out about your cult.

Soooo, by that idiotic logic – the fact that the pagan gods Horus, Mulungu, and Tangri are called “King of Hevan” makes Jesus a fraud?? You never answered that, Einstein . . .

You are posting Catholic Theology, not NT theology.

The Authority given in Matt. 16:19; 18-18, Lu1417ke 10:16 and John 16:12-15 is NOT NT Theology??

Ummm, would you mind telling me what it IS then??

During the 'Wester Schism" (1378–1417) you had more the 3 "Popes' claiming the Crown., each saying the other was the "Anti-Christ".

You are referring to a THIRY-NINE year period.

In post #3242 – YOU said the following:
“At one time in the History of the MaryCult... there were 6 Popes, and each was saying the other was the "Anti-Christ".”

During this time, there were FOUR Popes and FOUR antipopes. There were never more than TWO false claimants at the same time.

You’re not only a LIAR – you’re not very good at math . . .

 

[Behold]

This is why you reject history.

I reject the MaryCult's false theology.
I posted the List, and there is a lot more.
You stated that all of it is found in a bible, and that is simply a lie.
None of it is found it a bible., its only found in MaryCult "theology".

Every Catholic tradition is found somewhere in scripture.

My posted list of Catholic theological lies, are not found in a bible.
See for yourself.

Tradition is not considered more important than the bible...but complements it.

The list i posted, shows many of the Catholic teachings that are not found in any bible.

Listen,.........Try to find collectin "relics" or "Praying the Rosary", or "Mary's ascenion", in a Bible.

Ditto the rest of the list.....

Its all Catholic Fabrication.
Its all Marycult creations.
Its all man made religious nonsense.

If YOU wish to believe that God put the body of HIS SON into the body of a sinful woman....

Sin is in the blood....
The sin and the sin nature, is all found as the nature that is passed by blood-line.
So, a baby does not have the mother's blood in their veins, but a normal baby has a sin issue because its in the Bloodl as its passed from Adam..
The bible also teaches that '"LIFE is in the Blood".
The mother's blood never touches the Baby.......has no part in the baby......so, Mary's sin nature and her blood were not a part of Jesus, because Jesus's Blood was not from Mary, and her blood never touched Him.

Whereas Mary's blood, was of Adam, passed down to her ......so, she is a part of the fall of Adam, because she came from ADAM.
Adam's sin taints every human being, because we are all "of Adam"......
Jesus was not.
Jesus didnt come from Adam......>He came from GOD's Holy Seed., and Mary didnt. She was born of HER Father's Seed, and so, she is in ADAM, fallen. A sinner.
Jesus was not.

Again...your ignorance shines through.
Actually, the early theologians - those taught by the Apostles - believed that they were consuming the body and blood of Jesus.

That's Catholic Theology you are spreading.
See, If you talk ot a Baptist, Methodist, Assembly of God, Church of Christ, or any other Mainline Denomination, they will tell you that you are teaching MaryCult theology.

Believing man has no free will is not found in the bible.

Every person has free will., as we born with it.
We get to choose to trust in Christ, or not.

Believing God created and causes evil is not found in the bible.

Calvinism teaches that God causes Evil.
I dont.
Im not a Calvinist.

Believing saying a prayer and one is saved forever is not found in the bible.

God accepts our faith in Christ to make us righteous, and give us Etenral life.
Etenral life is Eternal, and if you have it, you have Eternal security.
Jesus is in every born again Christian, and He's not going anywhere.
Every CHrisitan is born again, "in Christ' and that can't be changed.

You can't stop being born again.

Water baptism does not save you, and does not wash away your sin, as the MaryCult falsely teaches.

Believing oral tradition is wrong is not found in the bible.

MaryCult Tradition is not found in a bible.
Its found in Catholic teaching only.

Believing a person never has to confess their sins after "accepting" Jesus is not found in the bible.

Confessing sin to be re-forgiven , after Jesus has become your "one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".......shows that the person does not understand The Cross of Christ, or the Blood Atonement.

Believing Jesus is NOT God is not found in the bible.

Jesus is God.
He's the God man.

Believing satan does not exist is not found in the bible.

Satan is as real as Jesus.
He is the enemy of everyone, and most especially Christians.

 

[Behold]

Please explain to me WHY YOU could post scripture that sounds as if a person could never lose salvation once they've "accepted" Jesus and I could post scripture that sounds as if a person COULD lose salvation after they've "accepted" Jesus.

Salvation is Jesus.
You can't "lose" Him.

Looks like maybe Paul didn't do such a good job of writing down Christian theology.

The Apostle Paul wrote all the doctrine for the Church.
The Apostle Paul does not teach MaryCult "theology".

Would you say it's problematic for a book to represent two sides as being true?
WHICH side would be the truth?

Jesus is THE Truth .. John 14:6.
And, any theology that does not perfectly align itself to Paul's theology, is false, wrong, and often a "doctrine of devils".

And you THINK that if Paul had died earlier,,,,the church would have just died?

I dont think anything like that..
Paul has a mission, and God gave Him the Grace to accomplish it.

Do you remember that Jesus stated that nothing would stop His church?
I don't remember Him mentioning Paul in that statement.

Paul was not called by Jesus, when Jesus was on the Earth, teaching the Jew. (House of Israel)
He called Him later, after Jesus was back in Heaven....and told Him to teach the church "the Gospel" and to start churches, and to bring to the body of Christ = all the Church doctrine.
And He did.

Matthew 16:18-19
18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

The "rock" was the revelation that Jesus is the Messiah.
Paul teaches in 1 Corin 10........"and that Rock was CHRIST".
Jesus is the "Cornerstone"......not Peter.
See, the Church is built on JESUS.........not on Peter.
We preach "Christ is the way to Heaven".......not "Peter" and not "water baptism".
Understand yet?

Paul was a good writer of theology,,,

Peter only has 2 epistles, and Peter stated that Paul's 13 Epistles are "Scripture".

but PETER was the head of the new church

Peter was not the head of "the Church"., and isn't today........nor is the Pope.

'Jesus is the Head of the Church in the beginning and forevermore......= as Paul teaches in Colossians 1:18.

The early church DID NOT forbid the marriage of priests.

I didnt say the early church forbid the marriage of Priests.
I said the MaryCult forbids it.
Ask any American priest...

Paul teaches that "forbidding to marry" is a "doctrine of Devils".

The MaryCult has a lot of those.

(see my list for just a few of them).

The early church followed the teachings of Jesus and were passed on to the next generation.

The early church was built on Paul's Doctrine... and Their eternal Salvaiton is found "in Christ".

It was not until about the 13th century that it was decided that priests should remain unmarried.

God didnt decide that Priest should be forbidden to marry.

The NT does not forbid anyone from being married.

Peter had a wife, and she was in his ministry, and Paul wrote about this fact.

You really need to learn some history.

You need to learn some bible... as You always confuse MaryCult teaching, with Chrisiianity..
Calvinists do the same, as do JW's.
Its what cults teach their deceived to do for them.

For goodness sake Behold.....
Have you ever heard of gnostics?

Yes,
The Father of Gnosticism, is Vaticanus, and He almost became a MaryCult Pope.

Have you heard of that?

Now you have.

Gnostics believe that all physical matter is evil; therefore, the human body, all forms of sexuality, and pleasant food were labelled as evil. As a result, the Gnostics rejected marriage and taught people not to eat certain foods.

Listen...
if the Gnostics reject Marriage and the MaryCult forbids their Priests to marry, then, what do you have?

= THE SAME teaching, and its a "doctrine of Devils" Paul teaches.

You don't KNOW what the early Christians believed because you haven't read them.

The "early Christians" whom Jesus called..... wrote the NT, and ive read it, studied it, and i teach it.

Aren't you happy that the Shroud was preserved??
I am.

The "Shroud" helps some people to believe in Jesus, and it helps some Christians have more faith.....so, thats all good.

However.........the "Relics" that im descriging are DEAD BODY PARTS that Catholics collect and keep.
Understand?
So, that's demonic...to collect them., and its demonic to teach that you should..... and that is one more MaryCult "doctrine of devils".

I've stated that I won't reply to any mention of CULT.

-

 

[GodsGrace]

I reject the MaryCult's false theology.
I posted the List, and there is a lot more.
You stated that all of it is found in a bible, and that is simply a lie.
None of it is found it a bible., its only found in MaryCult "theology".



My posted list of Catholic theological lies, are not found in a bible.
See for yourself.




The list i posted, shows many of the Catholic teachings that are not found in any bible.

Listen,.........Try to find collectin "relics" or "Praying the Rosary", or "Mary's ascenion", in a Bible.

Ditto the rest of the list.....

Its all Catholic Fabrication.
Its all Marycult creations.
Its all man made religious nonsense.




Sin is in the blood....
The sin and the sin nature, is all found as the nature that is passed by blood-line.
So, a baby does not have the mother's blood in their veins, but a normal baby has a sin issue because its in the Bloodl as its passed from Adam..
The bible also teaches that '"LIFE is in the Blood".
The mother's blood never touches the Baby.......has no part in the baby......so, Mary's sin nature and her blood were not a part of Jesus, because Jesus's Blood was not from Mary, and her blood never touched Him.

Whereas Mary's blood, was of Adam, passed down to her ......so, she is a part of the fall of Adam, because she came from ADAM.
Adam's sin taints every human being, because we are all "of Adam"......
Jesus was not.
Jesus didnt come from Adam......>He came from GOD's Holy Seed., and Mary didnt. She was born of HER Father's Seed, and so, she is in ADAM, fallen. A sinner.
Jesus was not.



That's Catholic Theology you are spreading.
See, If you talk ot a Baptist, Methodist, Assembly of God, Church of Christ, or any other Mainline Denomination, they will tell you that you are teaching MaryCult theology.



Every person has free will., as we born with it.
We get to choose to trust in Christ, or not.




Calvinism teaches that God causes Evil.
I dont.
Im not a Calvinist.




God accepts our faith in Christ to make us righteous, and give us Etenral life.
Etenral life is Eternal, and if you have it, you have Eternal security.
Jesus is in every born again Christian, and He's not going anywhere.
Every CHrisitan is born again, "in Christ' and that can't be changed.

You can't stop being born again.

Water baptism does not save you, and does not wash away your sin, as the MaryCult falsely teaches.



MaryCult Tradition is not found in a bible.
Its found in Catholic teaching only.



Confessing sin to be re-forgiven , after Jesus has become your "one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".......shows that the person does not understand The Cross of Christ, or the Blood Atonement.



Jesus is God.
He's the God man.




Satan is as real as Jesus.
He is the enemy of everyone, and most especially Christians.

I see you're replying to each listed topic.
I guess you didn't catch what I was stating.

Typical.
You just don't listen.

But more tomorrow...

 

[GodsGrace]

Salvation is Jesus.
You can't "lose" Him.



The Apostle Paul wrote all the doctrine for the Church.
The Apostle Paul does not teach MaryCult "theology".




Jesus is THE Truth .. John 14:6.
And, any theology that does not perfectly align itself to Paul's theology, is false, wrong, and often a "doctrine of devils".



I dont think anything like that..
Paul has a mission, and God gave Him the Grace to accomplish it.



Paul was not called by Jesus, when Jesus was on the Earth, teaching the Jew. (House of Israel)
He called Him later, after Jesus was back in Heaven....and told Him to teach the church "the Gospel" and to start churches, and to bring to the body of Christ = all the Church doctrine.
And He did.



The "rock" was the revelation that Jesus is the Messiah.
Paul teaches in 1 Corin 10........"and that Rock was CHRIST".
Jesus is the "Cornerstone"......not Peter.
See, the Church is built on JESUS.........not on Peter.
We preach "Christ is the way to Heaven".......not "Peter" and not "water baptism".
Understand yet?



Peter only has 2 epistles, and Peter stated that Paul's 13 Epistles are "Scripture".



Peter was not the head of "the Church"., and isn't today........nor is the Pope.

'Jesus is the Head of the Church in the beginning and forevermore......= as Paul teaches in Colossians 1:18.



I didnt say the early church forbid the marriage of Priests.
I said the MaryCult forbids it.
Ask any American priest...

Paul teaches that "forbidding to marry" is a "doctrine of Devils".

The MaryCult has a lot of those.

(see my list for just a few of them).




The early church was built on Paul's Doctrine... and Their eternal Salvaiton is found "in Christ".




God didnt decide that Priest should be forbidden to marry.

The NT does not forbid anyone from being married.

Peter had a wife, and she was in his ministry, and Paul wrote about this fact.




You need to learn some bible... as You always confuse MaryCult teaching, with Chrisiianity..
Calvinists do the same, as do JW's.
Its what cults teach their deceived to do for them.




Yes,
The Father of Gnosticism, is Vaticanus, and He almost became a MaryCult Pope.

Have you heard of that?

Now you have.


Listen...
if the Gnostics reject Marriage and the MaryCult forbids their Priests to marry, then, what do you have?

= THE SAME teaching, and its a "doctrine of Devils" Paul teaches.



The "early Christians" whom Jesus called..... wrote the NT, and ive read it, studied it, and i teach it.



The "Shroud" helps some people to believe in Jesus, and it helps some Christians have more faith.....so, thats all good.

However.........the "Relics" that im descriging are DEAD BODY PARTS that Catholics collect and keep.
Understand?
So, that's demonic...to collect them., and its demonic to teach that you should..... and that is one more MaryCult "doctrine of devils".


-
View attachment 70485

More of the same.

And what great pictures of people praying.
It's good to know that you enjoy them or you would't post them so often.

Beats the heck out of going out and shooting persons you don't agree with....

 

[Grailhunter]

Since infant Baptism was mentioned in this thread I thought would give some history on it.

There is no mention of infant baptism in the scriptures. But from the 2nd and 3rd centuries on early church fathers, such as Origen and Tertullian and others provide insights into the evolving practices of baptism within the early Christian community. While their views on infant baptism varied fore and against, their writings indicate that the practice was being discussed and implemented within certain Christian circles.

How common was it up to the 4rd century is hard to tell. But once Augustine came up with the false doctrine of Original Sin, around the 5th century people became concerned that babies would go to Hell if they were not baptized. After which infant Baptism became common place. And eventually a sacrament in the Catholic Church and some Protestants practice infant baptism but mostly as a christening.

Sprinkle Baptism for the elderly and ill was occurring very early in the church.

 

[JLB]

That was my poin ALL along.
Mary already gave birth to the Messiah, Jesus.
Satan and his agels were already cast out of Heaven.

NOT sure where you're going with this.

Satan and his angels were indeed cast out of heaven, the third heaven, but have not been cast down to the earth.

That time is yet future, and will have at the time of the great tribulation as marked by the specific time frame of three and a half years.

time, times, and a half of time

1260 days

42 months


Remember how Paul described Satan and his angels?


and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
‘Ephesians 3:9-10



For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Ephesians 6:12


Soon they will be cast down to the earth.


And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 12:7-9


Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. Revelation 12:13

• the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman

 

[GodsGrace]

Since infant Baptism was mentioned in this thread I thought would give some history on it.

There is no mention of infant baptism in the scriptures. But from the 2nd and 3rd centuries on early church fathers, such as Origen and Tertullian and others provide insights into the evolving practices of baptism within the early Christian community. While their views on infant baptism varied fore and against, their writings indicate that the practice was being discussed and implemented within certain Christian circles.

How common was it up to the 4rd century is hard to tell. But once Augustine came up with the false doctrine of Original Sin, around the 5th century people became concerned that babies would go to Hell if they were not baptized. After which infant Baptism became common place. And eventually a sacrament in the Catholic Church and some Protestants practice infant baptism but mostly as a christening.

Sprinkle Baptism for the elderly and ill was occurring very early in the church.

Yes sir.
The above is the history of baptism,,more could be said but the above is sufficient.

I'd add Irenaeus, Hermas, Clement of Alexandria, Barnabas, Justin Martyr.
(and others)

source: A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs
David W. Bercot

 

[BreadOfLife]

Satan and his angels were indeed cast out of heaven, the third heaven, but have not been cast down to the earth.

That time is yet future, and will have at the time of the great tribulation as marked by the specific time frame of three and a half years.

time, times, and a half of time
1260 days
42 months

Remember how Paul described Satan and his angels?

and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
‘Ephesians 3:9-10

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Ephesians 6:12

Soon they will be cast down to the earth.

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 12:7-9

Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. Revelation 12:13

• the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman

And nothing you/ve posted refutes my position.
My point ALL along is that Mary is the fulfillment of the Ark of the Covenant.

The Woman in Rev. 12 1 is the Ark in Heaven.
The description begins in Rev. 11:
Rev 11:19
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

The very next verse is in Chapter 12:
Rev 12:1
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman 2 clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

The next verse says:
Rev. 12:2
She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read:
Rev 12:4
She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.

There is simply NO getting around the fact that the Woman here in Revelation 12 is Mary.