Is it possible to lose salvation?

[rvmb]

that sounds good.. Let's both list only scriptures and then highlight the words that are relevant to the subject we're discussing.

Romans to Philemon, ready, fire, aim

 

[walter]

Outside of Paul (Rom-Philemon) were does Scripture teach that anyone else has the Christ given Acts 9:15 role of Rom 11:13 Apostle & Rom 15:16 Minister to the Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15 believers ?
Just the verses Walter, let them do the talking :)

First is it okay if I highlight the words in any scripture in the New Testament, that I feel is related to the subject of salvation, everlasting life and obedience to Jesus words?

 

[walter]

Romans to Philemon

what do you mean exactly by those words?

 

[rvmb]

First is it okay if I highlight the words in any scripture in the New Testament, that I feel is related to the subject of salvation, everlasting life and obedience to Jesus gospel?

Of course, when they are the teachings of Christ that applies to how salvation is achieved by believers today ?
Who are believers today ? >> Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15
Who did Christ appoint to teach them ? Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16.
If you quote salvation requirements outside of Paul for believers today, then might as well teach that Job was sealed with the HS c/- Eph 1:13 & saved by 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?

 

[rvmb]

what do you mean exactly by those words?

Matt to Acts is not by Paul
Romans to Philemon are Pauline :)

 

[walter]

Romans to Philemon are Pauline :)

Why do you prefer the words of Apostle Paul?

I prefer the words from Jesus and then I look for something the apostles say somewhere in the New Testament, that's in the agreement with something Jesus already said.

 

[rvmb]

Why do you prefer the words of Apostle Paul?

""Why do you prefer the words of Apostle Paul?""
Because Christ taught that was the role of Paul who the 12 also confirmed.
Have a read :- :)
Acts 9:15, Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16

 

[walter]

Because Christ taught that was the role of Paul who the 12 also confirmed.

I don't look for truth in just one apostle, so I don't think I would be a good person to discuss, Bible subjects with.

- You like the Apostle Paul's words.
- Myself I read the whole New Testament and even some of the Old Testament to assist me, and mostly Jesus words.
- Some people read the Bible, and then adjust their thinking to be in harmony with what the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit tells them.
- I've got a friend on these forums that gets Revelations from God through prayer.
- Others get their information from a prophet like Joseph Smith that received a revelation from an angel.

 

[Christian Soldier]

John 12:32
Berean Standard Bible
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”

I do not interpret scripture - I don't explain what the scripture means, the words in the Scriptures speak for themselves.

The problem with that approach is, it means you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say. This approach has resulted in the creation of 49,000 Christian denominations. Each interprets the bible according to what they want it to say, never mind what God was actually saying. Nobody seems to care.

The bible is not a book you read like some kind of instruction manual. Every verse requires diligent study, to make sure it lines up with the rest of the bible.
If we pluck verses out of their intended context and read them in isolation, then we can make them say whatever we want.

If we don't apply a systematic theology to the verses, then we can even say that the Lord Jesus taught cannibalism, and hatred towards our families.

 

[rvmb]

I don't look for truth in just one apostle, so I don't think I would be a good person to discuss, Bible subjects with.

- You like the Apostle Paul's words.
- Myself I read the whole New Testament and even some of the Old Testament to assist me, and mostly Jesus writes words.
- Some people read the Bible, and then adjust their thinking to be in harmony with what the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit tells them.
- I've got a friend on these forums that gets Revelations from God through prayer.
- Others get their information from a prophet like Joseph Smith that received a revelation from an angel.

""I don't look for truth in just one apostle,"
No looking involved, Scripture is CRYSTAL CLEAR
The other Apostles also confirmed the role of Paul Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9
So why do resist the teachings of Christ in Acts 9:15 ?
Do you believe Scripture is wrong ?
What verses AFTER Paul was commissioned teaches that the 12 had Pauls Christ given authority to us ?

 

[walter]

The problem with that approach is, it means you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say. This approach has resulted in the creation of 49,000 Christian denominations. Each interprets the bible according to what they want it to say, never mind what God was actually saying. Nobody seems to care.

The bible is not a book you read like some kind of instruction manual. Every verse requires diligent study, to make sure it lines up with the rest of the bible.
If we pluck verses out of their intended context and read them in isolation, then we can make them say whatever we want.

If we don't apply a systematic theology to the verses, then we can even say that the Lord Jesus taught cannibalism, and hatred towards our families.

I explain exactly what you do myself, I agree with you.

If Jesus was standing right next to you and explained something to you, would you take his advice?
Would you get your answers and direction from Jesus words or from some other source?

 

[walter]

""I don't look for truth in just one apostle,"
No looking involved, Scripture is CRYSTAL CLEAR
The other Apostles also confirmed the role of Paul Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9
So why do resist the teachings of Christ in Acts 9:15 ?
Do you believe Scripture is wrong ?
What verses AFTER Paul was commissioned teaches that the 12 had Pauls Christ given authority to us ?

Where did you get those ideas?

I don't doubt the role of the Apostle Paul!

And the Bible is Crystal Clear!

Paul has authority, why do you keep arguing against points I never argued about?

 

[walter]

CRYSTAL CLEAR

Thank you for the conversation, I do not want to have an endless debate, just because you like debating.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Predestination based on foreknowledge, YES
Predestination based on eeny, meeny, miney, mo, off to hell you go ? NO

No, God didn't elect His people by looking into future to see Johnny boy helping the old lady cross the street. That's the "saved by works" version of the gospel, and not the true "saved by grace gospel".

Some see predestination as conditioned on foreseen faith (God foresees you'll choose Him, so He predestines you). But we find that God's choice comes before and enables the response, based on His love (foreknowledge), making salvation an act of grace, not a reward for foreseen action.

"Those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son" (Romans 8:29). This chain of events (foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification, glorification) is seen as God's unfolding plan for His elect.

See your "saved by works" version of the gospel is not supported by a single verse of scripture, so I must conclude that you've been taught a different gospel to the one in the bible.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Are you talking to me? Jesus came to save "all people" "everywhere"!

That's right, He came to save people from every tribe and tongue, from every part of the world. But you would be lying to suggest that He came to save every single person as that is ridiculous.

 

[Christian Soldier]

why if there so many denominations where there is only one truth?

As for the judgment day, Jesus was clear, " You call me Lord, Lord, why do you not do what I say?"

Do you think you are the elect of GOD if you do not know what Jesus asked those who love him to do? well I told you in the Last post but I bet you did not read it and after the first paragraph you stopped.

there is a parable of the great Banquet Jesus said that is perfectly appropriate for many and that includes you, please read it through and see what awaits. but most likely you did not read this either so you shall never know. it is another parable about people not making it to Heaven . Yes another parable that say not everyone will make it, so many warnings Jesus left us only the blind cannot see because it is closed to them.

The Parable of the Great Banquet​

​

Then Jesus said to the man who had invited Him, “When you host a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or brothers or relatives or rich neighbors. Otherwise, they may invite you in return, and you will be repaid.​

But when you host a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind,​

and you will be blessed. Since they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”​

When one of those reclining with Him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is everyone who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.”​

​

But Jesus replied, “A certain man prepared a great banquet and invited many guests.​

​

When it was time for the banquet, he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’​

​

But one after another they all began to make excuses. The first one said, ‘I have bought a field, and I need to go see it. Please excuse me.’​

​

Another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to try them out. Please excuse me.’​

​

Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, so I cannot come.’​

​

The servant returned and reported all this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the city, and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind, and the lame.’​

​

‘Sir,’ the servant replied, ‘what you ordered has been done, and there is still room.’​

​

So the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full.​

​

For I tell you, not one of those men who were invited will taste my banquet.’”​

 

[walter]

He came to save every single person as that is ridiculous.

Luke 19:10
New International Version
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Mark 21:17
Berean Standard Bible
On hearing this, Jesus told them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Luke 5:32
New King James Version
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

--------------------------------------------------
and also:

1 Timothy 1:15
New American Standard Bible
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost.

1 John 2:1-2
Legacy Standard Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[walter]

and

I am not trying to debate with you, I wish there was something in the Bible we could agree on.

 

[walter]

That's right, He came to save people from every tribe and tongue, from every part of the world. But you would be lying to suggest that He came to save every single person as that is ridiculous.

- You just mentioned: That's right, He came to save people from every tribe and tongue.

- Then you say: But you would be lying to suggest that He came to save every single person as that is ridiculous.

First you say "that's right", then you say "that is ridiculous."

----------------------------------------------------

I'm not saying that in the end every single person is going to be saved, Jesus explains many will be destroyed and few find the road that leads to life. [ The Gospel of Jesus, gives the hope of Salvation to everyone when they first learn about it, but each person has a choice, and it looks like the majority do not choose to put the words in the Bible into practice ] Luke 8:21, Mark 3:35

Matthew 7:13-14
New International Version
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[Christian Soldier]

why if there so many denominations where there is only one truth?

As for the judgment day, Jesus was clear, " You call me Lord, Lord, why do you not do what I say?"

Do you think you are the elect of GOD if you do not know what Jesus asked those who love him to do? well I told you in the Last post but I bet you did not read it and after the first paragraph you stopped.

there is a parable of the great Banquet Jesus said that is perfectly appropriate for many and that includes you, please read it through and see what awaits. but most likely you did not read this either so you shall never know. it is another parable about people not making it to Heaven . Yes another parable that say not everyone will make it, so many warnings Jesus left us only the blind cannot see because it is closed to them.

The Parable of the Great Banquet​

​

Then Jesus said to the man who had invited Him, “When you host a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or brothers or relatives or rich neighbors. Otherwise, they may invite you in return, and you will be repaid.​

But when you host a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind,​

and you will be blessed. Since they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”​

When one of those reclining with Him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is everyone who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.”​

​

But Jesus replied, “A certain man prepared a great banquet and invited many guests.​

​

When it was time for the banquet, he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’​

​

But one after another they all began to make excuses. The first one said, ‘I have bought a field, and I need to go see it. Please excuse me.’​

​

Another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to try them out. Please excuse me.’​

​

Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, so I cannot come.’​

​

The servant returned and reported all this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the city, and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind, and the lame.’​

​

‘Sir,’ the servant replied, ‘what you ordered has been done, and there is still room.’​

​

So the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full.​

​

For I tell you, not one of those men who were invited will taste my banquet.’”​

The denominations came about because some "Christian Leaders" departed from the Church which Christ established. There are several reasons for their departure. The main reason was, they didn't want to submit themselves to Christ as their first and final authority.

A new denomination begins by the leader or founder, offering his or her blessings to those who claim to be Christian, but their lives show that are not living as a follower of Christ.
We had a couple of regular visitors apply for membership and their application was rejected because they were living together outside of marriage.

They left to join another Church where anything goes and there are no right or wrongs, in that denomination. The Church is the Body of Christ, His Body is not divided into countless denominations, that's why I joined a non denominational Church.

The reason those who call Jesus Lord, Lord are cast into hell is because they don't believe in Him. They believe in their own ability to save themselves by keeping the commandments/law. They are fools because God made it clear that it's impossible to keep any of His commandments by our own obedience.

Only those of us who are indwelt and led by the Holy Spirit, can obey by His enabling power through us.

The Lord Jesus never asked anyone to do anything, to earn their salvation. That's a highly offensive suggestion, because it means that Christs atoning work on the cross was insufficient to save anyone. So He is depending on dead sinners to finish the work He failed to finish on the cross.

So it always comes back to the false (saved by works) version of the gospel.

Here's why the Lord Jesus used parables.

Matthew 13:10-13: States that understanding the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven is given to the disciples but not to others. Jesus uses parables because some see but do not perceive and hear but do not understand.

Mark 4:11-12: Explains that the secret of the kingdom is given to the disciples, while to those outside, everything is in parables. This is so they may not understand and turn to be forgiven.

Luke 8:9-10: Notes that the disciples are given to know the mysteries of the kingdom, but others hear in parables so that they may not understand.
These verses reference the prophecy in Isaiah 6:9-10 concerning those who would hear and see but remain without understanding.

The capacity to grasp spiritual truth is a gift from God's grace, not human ability. The Holy Spirit provides illumination, allowing individuals to truly understand Scripture.

These verses to show that spiritual understanding is a supernatural gift of regeneration and illumination, distinguishing those chosen for salvation from others.