Is it possible to lose salvation?

[LoveYeshua]

Just one more verse would have done it !!

So many verses on salvation, Grace, sin etc... we have to look at the whole picture, all scripture together. It is a difficult task, requires a good memory, but the Holy Spirit helps us greatly in putting all the pieces together. Yes we need the whole bucket full of cherries or else we go hungry!

 

[Gray_Joy]

Nice cherry picking, I think the whole story is a bit more complex than a simple verse.

No cherries here. Thanks.

 

[gpresdo]

Its not possible to Lose Jesus, once He is in you, as He is our Salvation.

In Fact there are no born again Christians in Hell, and there are no Christ rejectors in Heaven.
IN both cases....Not now, not ever.
In fact, if a Born again Christian went to Hell, then Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit would go there with them, because the Believer is "the temple of the Holy Spirit" and Jesus is "Christ in you".. .and God is "in Christ" who is in every born again believer.

"Christ in you, the hope of Glory".....(Glory is Heaven).

Paul teaches that the only proof you are saved, is not if you try to "act out" some religious actor's idea regarding how Jesus behaved as your religious role playing game.
But rather that the Spirit of God is inside you....."sealed unto the day of redemption". (or for as long as God lives).

Remember that Jesus said that if we believe in Him, then He'll "give you eternal life and you shall never go to Hell (Perish)"".
If He's lying then go ahead and continue to believe that you can "lose it".. .but If Jesus is not lying then you are when you try to prove you can "lose it"...so, you need to correct yourself, asap.

Also, If you choose to contine to insult The Cross by teaching that God's Salvation who is Jesus on The Cross... is only as effective as your commandment keeping and your behavior on any given day, then hopefully Heb 12:6 will fall on you very very soon, and once you recover after the "season of instruction" turns you loose....., you'll stop sharing these type of religious lies on "christian forums".. that attempt to not only discredit the Blood of Jesus, but also hope to confuse a believer and ruin their faith in Christ.

Now, the proof that the Beliveer has God's "gift of eternal life"...is if they are born again.......as being born again places you "in Christ".. as "one with God", as "seated in Heavenly Places".... forever.

Another verse teaches that ""as Jesus IS.....so are the born again in THIS world".

Now, how did THAT happen?

Jesus said....>"you must be BORN AGAIN".. and when you are BORN agaIn by the Holy Spirit, this means that God's Holy Spirit has birthed you "IN CHRIST"... and "In" means" "joined spiritually as ONE" with the Living Lord and God Himself... And that means that the Holy Spirit has birthed the believers spirit into God's Spirit by the Holy Spirit........This is defined by the NT by PAUL, as being born again as a "new Creation" "in Christ" having become "one with God".

Reader, .."In Christ" means "born again into God's Spirit by the Holy Spirit", and this is the only actual proof anyone has become a Christian, as all the other stuff....can be performed by "Play acting" = lost people who are very religious, and often water baptized.
Now, you can pretend you are, while not actually knowing what it means and these types keep some forums in the unfortunate position of '"hosting heretics", unless this is prevented by moderation that is more conserned with pleasing God then mostly trying to keep the arguing about "OSAS" and "Losing Salvation" .....down to a modest carnal roar.

Also, We find that self righteous people who ran right by The Cross of Christ while chasing Moses law and commandments, all believe that they can "lose their salvation"....= which literally reveals that these hyper religious people have absolutely no understanding of what it actually means to be saved by the Blood and Death of Jesus based strictly on "Justifcation by Faith".. They literally have no understanding of "Grace through Faith"... whatsoever regarding what Christ has ETERNALLY accomplished on The Cross.
And of course they have no idea at all regarding what it means to be eterally born again.
These religious hacks would want to argue that God's ""gift of eternal life" is only temporary , unless the person's self effort maintains it eternally by confessing sin, while trying to be like Jesus, while chasing Moses Law and Commandments.

24507 !!!....... surely u didn't miss that point?

 

[gpresdo]

Being born again can't be stopped, ended, or remitted because its a ETERNAL BIRTH in the Spirit.

A.) You can't stop being born again....exactly as you can't cause it......and its the same with Salvation.

And some wide eyed heretic says.....>"but what if i walk away from my faith".

A.) Ok but you cant stop being in Christ, as this is a Spirtuai Birth that has already happened because GOD. has already accepted your faith and will "himself be faithfuld to complete" your Salvation.
Phil 1:6

"but what if .......what if......what if.....what if.........what if"........

A.) You can't stop being born again., and being born again is the ONLY REAL PROOF OF SALVATiON, as being born again proves it has happened.

Works dont prove spiritual birth....works prove faith......James teaches.
So then, What proves you are a become a REAL Christian???

A.) Jesus answered it.. He said.....>"you must be BORN AGAIN"., as that is the genuine heavenly proof of SALVATION = that is found on earth every time someone is BORN AGAIN .......as we are born again to eternally exit with God And Christ, as "one".

You can't stop being born again., and being water baptized is NOT how you become born again., tho the Mary Cult and many protestant branches of this dark and demonic religious system will tell you that water saves you.
And if that is True, then go and take a Hot Shower, as you've just been saved again.

C'mon, Think, or the Cults will get your mind and you'll never get it back, reader.

Don't we wish it was that easy!!!!!

 

[gpresdo]

Sure there are PeterAndroz
You just don't care for them.
You accept the verses you like and discard those you do not like.
And, this, ladies and gentlemen, is the New Christianity.

Ignore Jesus,
Ignore Paul,
Ignore James,
Ignore Peter,
Matthew,
Luke,
etc.

Pick out a few verse you THINK are guaranteeing your salvation...
and just keep posting them ad nauseum.

Maybe you could just start your own Religion?
What to call it?

The Church of Guaranteed Salvation...
NO MATTER WHAT.

It is being referred to as...new age religion.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Sometimes God gets lost in the conflict of opinions.
This is a short and wonderful reminder .

 

[GodsGrace]

It is being referred to as...new age religion.

Right...
But it's not the CHRISTIAN RELIGION.

Schism anyone?

And @PeterAndroz andros is very good at copying and pasting his carpet bombing list of verses he doesn't even understand.

Let's see if he replies to TWO of my posts to him....

which he delights in ignoring.

I wonder why??

 

[GodsGrace]

Sometimes God gets lost in the conflict of opinions.
This is a short and wonderful reminder .

Maybe you better stop listening to OPINIONS
and start believing what your bible teaches.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Maybe you better stop listening to OPINIONS
and start believing what your bible teaches.

Fortunately you are not the type to get hood winked by Vatican dogma

 

[GodsGrace]

Fortunately you are not the type to get hood winked by Vatican dogma

Why do you NOT reply to my posts to you?
I don't know what the above is referring to.
I like to read the red words in the NT and base my belief system on those.

What Paul writes, and John and James are also studied and believed ....
But Jesus has such a wonderful and simple way of making mankind know what God wants him to know.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Maybe you could just start your own Religion?
What to call it?

The Church of Guaranteed Salvation...
NO MATTER WHAT.

It's also known as the security in sin "gospel"

People with itching ears be flockin

 

[Jay Ross]

It is not our security in God on our terms but rather on God's terms that actually works.

 

[mailmandan]

Since we are saved IF we believe the Gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 then to me (though I could be wrong) it makes sense that the belief must continue.
So a believer becoming UNsealed by no longer believing the Gospel makes sense since the requirement IS belief.
..
Can a believer become UNsealed by sinful actions ? Not that I know of since there are no verses from Paul that teach that

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, the belief must continue in order to demonstrate that it was not in vain.

Strong's #1500: eike (pronounced i-kay') In vain, without cause, for no purpose

probably from 1502 (through the idea of failure); idly, i.e. without reason (or effect):--without a cause, (in) vain(-ly).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

eikē

1) inconsiderably, without purpose, without just cause

2) in vain

2a) without success or effort

Part of Speech: adverb

Relation: probably from G1502 (through the idea of failure)

Citing in TDNT: 2:380, 203

Strongs's #1500: eike - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools

Belief that does not continue was never firmly rooted and established in the gospel from the start. Hence, unless you believed in vain.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. *Nothing there about UN-sealed.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. *Nothing there about UN-sealed.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It is not our security in God on our terms but rather on God's terms that actually works.

Yes, God has ORDAINED that we walk in good works (Ephesians 2:10-18) which can only be accomplished by submitting one's self to the Lord by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Belief that does not continue was never firmly rooted and established in the gospel from the start.

Jesus said they all received the Word, but some allowed things to enter in which choked the Word out of them. This does not mean they were never saved to start with. That's just a lie the OSAS people are required to spread in defense of their false gospel.

Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Here we see Jesus telling us the 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word and cause it to be unfruitful... IF these things are allowed to ENTER IN which we have the responsibility to not allow... see John 14:23 where Jesus says "If a man love me, he will keep my words" as in NOT allow it to be choked out of us.

The 5 things are... affliction, persecution, cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, and lusts of other things

Jesus said God’s Kingdom works on the seedtime and harvest principle

Mark 4:26
And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;

The smart ones refuse to allow things to enter in and choke God's Word out of them. Instead they stand on God's Word continually so the Lord is established in them where His Word takes root and they no longer allow the devil to trick them out of believing and obeying God's Word which is what he did with Adam and Eve to trick them in to change to become in opposition to the Lord.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said they all received the Word, but some allowed things to enter in which choked the Word out of them. This does not mean they were never saved to start with. That's just a lie the OSAS people are required to spread in defense of their false gospel.

The word is choked and therefore does not produce a renewed spiritual life in the person. OSAS vs. NOSAS (believing you can or cannot lose your salvation) is not the gospel. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Not saved - lest they should believe and be saved.

And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

Now even though this stony ground hearer in Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? Because this is a shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Faith without works is dead. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel (emotional response) without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and established, consumated belief resulting in salvation." *Unlike saving belief, shallow, temporary belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit (Luke 8:6,13) represent saving belief? It doesn't. Also, the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Here we see Jesus telling us the 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word and cause it to be unfruitful... IF these things are allowed to ENTER IN which we have the responsibility to not allow... see John 14:23 where Jesus says "If a man love me, he will keep my words" as in NOT allow it to be choked out of us.

The 5 things are... affliction, persecution, cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, and lusts of other things

Jesus said God’s Kingdom works on the seedtime and harvest principle

In the case of the thorny ground hearer, the plant was never firmly rooted and established in which it could produce fruit (even though there was motion and movement toward becoming an established plant) but it was choked out before reaching its desired goal because the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful, bears no fruit, yields nothing. (Mark 4:19)

IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. So, only the 4th soil in the parable of the Sower was referred to as good ground that produced a crop/fruit and there is no mention of being scorched, choked out or withering away afterwards.

Mark 4:26
And he said, so is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;

The smart ones refuse to allow things to enter in and choke God's Word out of them. Instead they stand on God's Word continually so the Lord is established in them where His Word takes root and they no longer allow the devil to trick them out of believing and obeying God's Word which is what he did with Adam and Eve to trick them in to change to become in opposition to the Lord.

His Word takes root (in contrast with no root and choked out) is the key.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Not saved - lest they should believe and be saved.

In Mark 4:13-20 Jesus is indicating that all heard the Word. Those claiming some who fall away from the faith where never saved in the first place don’t realize that if they had not received the Word then satan would not have needed to come to them to try and take the Word from them if they had not ever been born again.

is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved."

I see so suddenly you faith alone people have changed their story where believing does not save a person

So when you see a person get born again you rush right up and inform them that they are not actually saved?

That sounds about right coming from the perpetually confused.

 

[mailmandan]

In Mark 4:13-20 Jesus is indicating that all heard the Word. Those claiming some who fall away from the faith where never saved in the first place don’t realize that if they had not received the Word then satan would not have needed to come to them to try and take the Word from them if they had not ever been born again.

Hearing the word in of itself does not guarantee the word will firmly take root. Did all produce fruit? If the shallow ground hearer and the thorny ground hearer were born again, then where is the evidence? (fruit) Only the seed that fell on "good ground" produced fruit/a crop of various sizes. (Mark 4:20)

I see so suddenly you faith alone people have changed their story where believing does not save a person

As I already previously explained to you, not all belief is the same. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus which falls short of firmly rooted and established (consumated) belief resulting in salvation.

Again, the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

Also, in John 2:23-25, we see their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

In John 8:31-59, these Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in.

We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly believe in Him unto salvation and become children of God.

So when you see a person get born again you rush right up and inform them that they are not actually saved?

That sounds about right coming from the perpetually confused.

Only God can infallibly judge who is and who is not born again (and not you) yet the evidence of faith is works/faith without works is dead, remember? Eternal IN-securists are quick to shout out, "faith without works is dead" in James 2 but that does not seem to apply in Mark 4:13-20. How convenient.

 

[Armour of God]

Once your dead and your spirit is saved in heaven then I believe it cannot be lost.

But many people claim to be saved as if it's already happened when in reality the salvation process is not done until our bodies die on this earth.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Once your dead and your spirit is saved in heaven then I believe it cannot be lost.

That's the lie that leads so many to believing in the greasy grace, fake "security in sin" gospel.

Hearing the word in of itself does not guarantee the word will firmly take root.

Taking root comes gradually and does not take away from the fact that they heard and received the Word.

Of course the greasy grace crowd teaches Jesus lied which they are required to do in their feeble attempt to protect their precious false doctrine. This is how cults operate.

The Word was obviously in the ones that fell away in the beginning, otherwise there wouldn't have been any need for the devil to go try to steal or choke the Word out of them. Here is yet another case where greasy grace claims Jesus lied.

As I already previously explained to you, not all belief is the same. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus which falls short of firmly rooted and established (consumated) belief resulting in salvation.

No, if a person hears and receives the Word concerning salvation and they die 2 minutes after doing so they will in fact go to Heaven even though they are so new to the things of the Lord and have not yet had enough time for God's Word to take root.

Next time you see a sinner confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior... but sure and run over and tell them that they are not actually born again yet as they'll have to wait a while until God's Word takes root and they bare fruit.

The act of turning from sin and choosing to receive Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is bearing good fruit.

Only God can infallibly judge who is and who is not born again

I see so when Jesus tells us we shall know them by their fruit, Jesus was lying according to the greasy grace crowd. That tracks for them, seeing their are cherry pickers who don't accept all the Lord says.

 

[David Lamb]

That's the lie that leads so many to believing in the greasy grace, fake "security in sin" gospel.

But wait a minute - Armour of God was writing about people who have died and gone to heaven. Are you saying that people can sin (and have security in sin) in heaven?