Is my reply right about addiction?

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Mark Balicki

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I wrote something to someone concerning someone else who reached out in a online forum looking for help. I was asked if I heard back from the person, because I answered his post.
This is what I wrote, beside the grammar do you think what I wrote was right? Here is the email.

(my reply)
Unfortunately, no he did not. I thought maybe it was legit and He was reaching out in desperation, but there were some things he wrote that lead me to believe He is still under the power of addiction. Most want out when they are sober, but because of the devastation the occurs in addiction it becomes like jail bars keeping them in. So, you become self-defeated and reside to live in the bondage that you created for yourself although that is not how you will present yourself to others because you do not want to look stupid. (simply pride)

I had thoughts that he may be playing on the kindness of believers to get help, but maybe not God's help, but a way to get some money. I had hope not, but also knew that could be the case too.

Only God's intervention can get a person out of addiction completely, and not changing one addiction for another, at least that is what I have come to believe. I did not see indications of him trying to reach out for that in his writing.

If that intervention is a miraculous healing of that addiction where there is no desire for alcohol or drugs. Or a Christian treatment place that opens up a new life to you, including introducing you to responsibility, it will be God leading you into it and you will see some sign of repentance or leaning into God which I didn't see but, just blaming others for the condition of his life.

That responsibility part becomes the stumbling block, because in the course of time specially for young folks getting involved with drug use it is an area of life that becomes lost to them. The years they spend partying and then addicted they are losing years of learning and coping skills in dealing with life compared to their peers who did not choose that for their life. Being able to be responsible is hard to maintain and they keep failing at even some of the basic skills needed for stability in life. This adds to the self-defeat and the reliance on the drugs to medicate the pain of inadequacy.

I believe most get introduced to drugs during a painful time in their lives whatever that may be for them. And then the alcohol and drug use become the way to medicate themselves. For you or me it may be something different that we may find to medicate ourselves with, but hopefully as you follow the Lord you learn to take your pain to Him and He teaches you how to cope with it so the sin of trying to do it some other way isn't destroying your life.

And if you end up being unlucky to have an enabler for a time period in your life, like a mom, dad, spouse, relative, or friend the behavior can really get cemented into your life because the full extent of your consequences is seemly postponed for now. Instead of hitting the wall with nowhere to go you have someone helping you to exist on that level, even though we can't imagine it being much of an existence. It is enough though to allow them to stay there and depend on someone else avoiding having to face God and the truth.

This is just my observation, only Jesus can save us. We can help direct someone there. I also believe the emotional door and the drugs together can open you up demonic oppression or possession and some will actually need deliverance (casting out demons) to get completely free. In our society as long as these unnatural or not right behaviors are diagnosis as some mental illnesses the reality of that is hidden. Until, they act out destroying something or hurting someone or taking life and then it can be too late. Maybe not for the individual to be redeemed but for the victims who suffer because of the individual's violence.

Hope you are doing good! And catching up on rest.

Mark
 
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amadeus

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@Mark Balicki
It sounded good to me. Our actual answer in each situation is often going to be different as we are led by the Spirit. Avoid canned answers even based on scripture. To have the right answer we ourselves need to stay close to God leaning heavily on Him always. Then when the situation arises where we need to respond to someone as you have done, God will help us fill in the gaps due to incomplete and/or incorrect information provided to us by people.

God is always able... and so when we are walking with Him into a situation or responding to a person in need He will lead us in the right Way.

 
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Addy

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@Mark Balicki

Your response was well thought out... filled with grace... understanding of what might be happening... yet a realization that God is the ONLY one who can save an addict from addiction. In AA there is a saying that addiction is cunning... baffling and powerful... and it is indeed all of those things...

It is my opinion that your response to this person was RIGHT on the money.... reflective of the proper Christian position on this matter.
 
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Truman

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I wrote something to someone concerning someone else who reached out in a online forum looking for help. I was asked if I heard back from the person, because I answered his post.
This is what I wrote, beside the grammar do you think what I wrote was right? Here is the email.

(my reply)
Unfortunately, no he did not. I thought maybe it was legit and He was reaching out in desperation, but there were some things he wrote that lead me to believe He is still under the power of addiction. Most want out when they are sober, but because of the devastation the occurs in addiction it becomes like jail bars keeping them in. So, you become self-defeated and reside to live in the bondage that you created for yourself although that is not how you will present yourself to others because you do not want to look stupid. (simply pride)

I had thoughts that he may be playing on the kindness of believers to get help, but maybe not God's help, but a way to get some money. I had hope not, but also knew that could be the case too.

Only God's intervention can get a person out of addiction completely, and not changing one addiction for another, at least that is what I have come to believe. I did not see indications of him trying to reach out for that in his writing.

If that intervention is a miraculous healing of that addiction where there is no desire for alcohol or drugs. Or a Christian treatment place that opens up a new life to you, including introducing you to responsibility, it will be God leading you into it and you will see some sign of repentance or leaning into God which I didn't see but, just blaming others for the condition of his life.

That responsibility part becomes the stumbling block, because in the course of time specially for young folks getting involved with drug use it is an area of life that becomes lost to them. The years they spend partying and then addicted they are losing years of learning and coping skills in dealing with life compared to their peers who did not choose that for their life. Being able to be responsible is hard to maintain and they keep failing at even some of the basic skills needed for stability in life. This adds to the self-defeat and the reliance on the drugs to medicate the pain of inadequacy.

I believe most get introduced to drugs during a painful time in their lives whatever that may be for them. And then the alcohol and drug use become the way to medicate themselves. For you or me it may be something different that we may find to medicate ourselves with, but hopefully as you follow the Lord you learn to take your pain to Him and He teaches you how to cope with it so the sin of trying to do it some other way isn't destroying your life.

And if you end up being unlucky to have an enabler for a time period in your life, like a mom, dad, spouse, relative, or friend the behavior can really get cemented into your life because the full extent of your consequences is seemly postponed for now. Instead of hitting the wall with nowhere to go you have someone helping you to exist on that level, even though we can't imagine it being much of an existence. It is enough though to allow them to stay there and depend on someone else avoiding having to face God and the truth.

This is just my observation, only Jesus can save us. We can help direct someone there. I also believe the emotional door and the drugs together can open you up demonic oppression or possession and some will actually need deliverance (casting out demons) to get completely free. In our society as long as these unnatural or not right behaviors are diagnosis as some mental illnesses the reality of that is hidden. Until, they act out destroying something or hurting someone or taking life and then it can be too late. Maybe not for the individual to be redeemed but for the victims who suffer because of the individual's violence.

Hope you are doing good! And catching up on rest.

Mark
Please don't take this personal.
As a person who spent many years using every drug of abuse available, I've found the most harm I've received from others was from well-meaning Christians who had little to no experience with addiction.
"The therapeutic value of one addict helping another is without parallel." - from Narcotics Anonymous.
Before you fly off the handle, you need to understand that the 12 step program comes from the bible, was originated by a Christian man, who was part of a Christian group called, "The Oxford Group," and that the third step originally said, "we turned our will and our lives over to the care of Jesus Christ."
His name was later changed to, "the God of our understanding," when the group split, by a non-Christian.
The program works because it was built on biblical principals.
Why would God allow the unsaved to benefit without receiving Christ?
He causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
Many people are won to Christ through secular 12-step programs, as there are many Christians in them.
 
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Addy

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Please don't take this personal.
As a person who spent many years using every drug of abuse available, I've found the most harm I've received from others was from well-meaning Christians who had little to no experience with addiction.
"The therapeutic value of one addict helping another is without parallel." - from Narcotics Anonymous.
Before you fly off the handle, you need to understand that the 12 step program comes from the bible, was originated by a Christian man, who was part of a Christian group called, "The Oxford Group," and that the third step originally said, "we turned our will and our lives over to the care of Jesus Christ."
His name was later changed to, "the God of our understanding," when the group split, by a non-Christian.
The program works because it was built on biblical principals.
Why would God allow the unsaved to benefit without receiving Christ?
He causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
Many people are won to Christ through secular 12-step programs, as there are many Christians in them.
I must have MIS-read the OP because I did not sense anything off about the reply... Gotta go back and read it again...
 

Addy

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As a person who spent many years using every drug of abuse available, I've found the most harm I've received from others was from well-meaning Christians who had little to no experience with addiction.
"The therapeutic value of one addict helping another is without parallel." - from Narcotics Anonymous.
I absolutely agree with the statement... I did not pick up anything that would go against this... but I could have missed something... I agree that many of the most damaging people to an addict are so called "well-meaning" Christians.... but that goes for not only addiction but other areas of struggle.
 

Truman

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When their advice doesn't work, it's, "you don't have enough faith, you need to pray more, read your bible more, serve more, give more; and when that doesn't work, you must have hidden sin, or you must be in rebellion."
That's if you can jump through all those hoops. Addiction is a debilitating disease.
I went to Celebrate Recovery for relationship issues. I was open about the medication my doctor had me on.
A well-meaning man, who kinda knew me, who had smoked weed earlier in his life, told them that my problem was drugs.
I had earlier fallen into addictive behavior, being an abused husband.
They tried to force me into a drug-addiction group.
When I failed to do what they thought I should do, they abandoned me.
It was supposed to be a self-help group. I was told it was independent of the church, which I didn't belong to. They later changed this, without telling me, for a year.
At this point, I often hear how I need to forgive.
People have a hard time admitting they're wrong...especially if they believe their salvation depends on them being right.
I'm not bitter now, because I have worked through so much, forgiving, blessing, and loving.
Though I suspect there's more. :)
 
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Addy

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When their advice doesn't work, it's, "you don't have enough faith, you need to pray more, read your bible more, serve more, give more; and when that doesn't work, you must have hidden sin, or you must be in rebellion."
That's if you can jump through all those hoops. Addiction is a debilitating disease.
I went to Celebrate Recovery for relationship issues. I was open about the medication my doctor had me on.
A well-meaning man, who had smoked weed earlier in his life, told them my problem was drugs.
I had earlier fallen into addictive behavior, being a batter husband.
They tried to force me into a drug-addiction group.
When I failed to do what they thought I should do, they abandoned me.
At this point, I often hear how I need to forgive.
People have a hard time admitting they're wrong...especially if they believe their salvation depends on them being right.
I'm not bitter now, because I have worked through so much, forgiving, blessing, and loving.
Though I suspect there's more. :)
I am so sorry to hear that this happened to you... truly very sorry.... I have found that when God's kids abuse God's kids... He does not like this much... but... BUT... this is when HE usually shows up Himself via His strength and presence to do a deep healing within the one who is not only broken... but on top of that WOUNDED by the church. This has been my own experience... I have severe trust issues and have found God to STILL be able to work within me... to accomplish healing.
 
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Truman

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That's exactly how it is.
He works all things together for my good, according to His purpose, because I love Him.
I love Him because He loved me first.
He is so patient with me.
 
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Truman

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I haven't been in a church since 2008.
This group here is my first fellowship since then.
I love it here as we know we are works in progress.
Jesus, help me love like You love.
 

Addy

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That's exactly how it is.
He works all things together for my good, according to His purpose, because I love Him.
I love Him because He loved me first.
He is so patient with me.
YES He is... full of mercy and grace. He does not mind extending his hand into a pit of despair to lift us up and out.
 

Addy

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I haven't been in a church since 2008.
This group here is my first fellowship since then.
I love it here as we know we are works in progress.
Jesus, help me love like You love.
I don't exactly love it here... LOL but it is also my first place of fellowship since 2014 when I moved away from my old church.
 

Truman

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I also think of it this way: it's an opportunity for me to mature in love.
Guys in the Vineyard called this, "The huggy-kissy song." Lol
 

Shattered

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Please don't take this personal.
As a person who spent many years using every drug of abuse available, I've found the most harm I've received from others was from well-meaning Christians who had little to no experience with addiction.
"The therapeutic value of one addict helping another is without parallel." - from Narcotics Anonymous.
Before you fly off the handle, you need to understand that the 12 step program comes from the bible, was originated by a Christian man, who was part of a Christian group called, "The Oxford Group," and that the third step originally said, "we turned our will and our lives over to the care of Jesus Christ."
His name was later changed to, "the God of our understanding," when the group split, by a non-Christian.
The program works because it was built on biblical principals.
Why would God allow the unsaved to benefit without receiving Christ?
He causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
Many people are won to Christ through secular 12-step programs, as there are many Christians in them.

We suffer so we might comfort others (2 Corinthians 1:3-5). Well said, @Truman the Levite .
 
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MatthewG

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Seems like it will always be about love.

1 John 4: Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God;


Love:
Cognate: 25 agapáō – properly, to prefer, to love; for the believer, preferring to "live through Christ" (1 Jn 4:9,10), i.e. embracing God's will (choosing His choices) and obeying them through His power. 25 (agapáō) preeminently refers to what God prefers as He "is love" (1 Jn 4:8,16). See 26 (agapē).

With the believer, 25 /agapáō ("to love") means actively doing what the Lord prefers, with Him (by His power and direction). True 25 /agapáō ("loving") is always defined by God – a "discriminating affection which involves choice and selection" (WS, 477). 1 Jn 4:8,16,17 for example convey how loving ("preferring," 25 /agapáō) is Christ living His life through the believer.

26 agápē – properly, love which centers in moral preference. So too in secular ancient Greek, 26 (agápē) focuses on preference; likewise the verb form (25 /agapáō) in antiquity meant "to prefer" (TDNT, 7). In the NT, 26 (agápē) typically refers to divine love (= what God prefers).​

God is love. God was pleased with the sacrifice that the Lord Jesus Christ - the Son of God - made the choice to die in able to redeem all sin as paid for so that God is no longer angry.

God was in Christ reconciled the whole world unto Himself.

2 Corinthians 5:19 how that God was in Christ -- a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,


Reconciling:
2644 katallássō (from 2596 /katá, "down to an exact point," intensifying 236 /allássō, "to change") – properly, decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

2644 /katallássō ("decisively changed, reconciled") is applied to marriage partners (1 Cor 7:11), but usually in the redemptive sense of a sinner reconciling to the Lord.

[2644 (katallássō) was originally used for the exchange of coins; "properly, to change, exchange (especially of money); hence, of persons, to change from enmity to friendship, to reconcile" (A-S).]

reckoning: 3049 logízomai (the root of the English terms "logic, logical") – properly, compute, "take into account"; reckon (come to a "bottom-line"), i.e. reason to a logical conclusion (decision).

trespasses: 3900 paráptōma (from 3895 /parapíptō, see there) – properly, fall away after being close-beside, i.e. a lapse (deviation) from the truth; an error, "slip up"; wrong doing that can be (relatively) unconscious, "non-deliberate."

word of :
3056 lógos (from 3004 /légō, "speaking to a conclusion") – a word, being the expression of a thought; a saying. 3056 /lógos ("word") is preeminently used of Christ (Jn 1:1), expressing the thoughts of the Father through the Spirit.

[3056 (lógos) is a common term (used 330 times in the NT) with regards to a person sharing a message (discourse, "communication-speech"). 3056 (lógos) is a broad term meaning "reasoning expressed by words."]

reconciliation : Cognate: 2643 katallagḗ – reconciliation (restoration) as the resulting of Christ exactly (precisely) exchanging His righteousness (blood) for our guilt. See 2644 (katallassō).

Those who abide in Yeshua Christ abide with God from and because of the holy spirit/spirit of Christ - with-in the believer.

Believers now have help from God and from Christ Jesus inside of the believer to overcome things in their life when they turn towards God and ask for help, and trust an rely on the spirit which can perform ~ Our flesh however will go against.
 
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Mark Balicki

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When their advice doesn't work, it's, "you don't have enough faith, you need to pray more, read your bible more, serve more, give more; and when that doesn't work, you must have hidden sin, or you must be in rebellion."
That's if you can jump through all those hoops. Addiction is a debilitating disease.
I went to Celebrate Recovery for relationship issues. I was open about the medication my doctor had me on.
A well-meaning man, who kinda knew me, who had smoked weed earlier in his life, told them that my problem was drugs.
I had earlier fallen into addictive behavior, being an abused husband.
They tried to force me into a drug-addiction group.
When I failed to do what they thought I should do, they abandoned me.
It was supposed to be a self-help group. I was told it was independent of the church, which I didn't belong to. They later changed this, without telling me, for a year.
At this point, I often hear how I need to forgive.
People have a hard time admitting they're wrong...especially if they believe their salvation depends on them being right.
I'm not bitter now, because I have worked through so much, forgiving, blessing, and loving.
Though I suspect there's more. :)

Each person as God has stated through many people in many scriptures gets to make his own choices about life. Christian or non-christian can share a perspective or a direction that seems helpful to themselves with the understanding they have with the one who is lost. And this is all we can do unless God has put it on your heart to do more.

Ultimately, rebellion against God, if we are aware of His ways/precepts or not, in some form leads to our troubles, our sins. Another person can not fix that for another person. We can try to persuade others to find a better way, but even addicts or what ever sinful behavior we are holding on to have their pride and that pride can keep them outside of the truth refusing it. The best a person who desires to help can do in that case is live as an example and not be an enabler to present the better hope that we have been called to in Christ Jesus and pray for God's mercy and grace to intervene in that person situation in a way that can speak to them. That's is the sum total of loving your neighbor as yourself. We are not out there purposely sinning and hurting others. But a Jesus said the first is to love the Lord you God with all heart, soul and strength.

The bottom line is there is judgment for sin and as much as we don't want to see people suffer we can't make their choices for them. The other side of the coin is we can not blames others for the condition of our own life we have Jesus our hope. If we have breath in us we have hope for change in Jesus if not in our circumstance at least we can have it in us and relationship with God which I believe can change your circumstance.

I have done drugs, but then became a Christ follower finding life. I worked for awhile for a national drug and alcohol preacher/evangelist going into schools, rehabs and churches throughout the USA. But the clincher for me is I sat on a grand jury for a year and half, about two days a months and listen to a lot of drug cases the federal government were pursuing and seeking indictments against folks. The pattern became so clear, unless Jesus intervenes you end up dead or in prison. Dead from suicide or overdose and in prison from reckless behavior or selling/delivering to support your habit that was the future for the sinner apart from God's grace. And I guess you can also sit in the glorious land of limbo between the two and I can not imagine that being great place to be either, but that is rebellion's reward.
 

Mark Balicki

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I don't exactly love it here... LOL but it is also my first place of fellowship since 2014 when I moved away from my old church.
Hi Addy, so I don't get blamed for posting reply to similar comment twice please read what I wrote to trueman the levite.
 

Truman

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Churchianity will bring you to your knees,
No matter how you plead, they'll stand and watch you bleed.
 

Truman

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Agree with me, or I'll cut you to pieces...pathetic.
No wonder so many are dying from addiction.
People Jesus died for.
 

MatthewG

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@Truman the Levite, @Mark Balicki

In the internet spectrum it seems more people disagree than agree when it comes to real life conversations at-least if you exclude the political side out of the equation. Human beings will fight for what they believe is right which is all fine and well ~ Whatever it may be about - S3x trafficing - Finding Lost Children - Protecting children - Trying to help people not make the choice of abortion instead maybe adoption -> Whatever else some people may fight for the stopping of using drugs, just whatever you can imagine in this field.

If a person is unable to love a brother who has messed up in their life who need just as much as help as the next person - and we look down on that brother, and kick dirt on them, or spit in their face.

How is that love? How is love if we hate them, regardless of their past ~~ Just as God forgave us and our trespasses ~ We ought to forgive others, and their own trespasses.

Pray for others, all peoples it what the scriptures indicate as well as holding on to hope and promises of God, and the Lord Yeshua.
 
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