Is Romans 7 a license to sin?
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You guys just amaze me. Without sin, and so spiritual! No wonder God loves you!
What I read in these pages simply astounds me! Its really very sad!
I have only this . . .
Romans 5:1-2 LITV
(1) Then being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
(2) through whom also we have had access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we glory on the hope of the glory of God.
Of course Paul is referring to a both new and old natures:
Rom 7:17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Notice . . . "it is no longer I who do it . . ." Something's changed.
Check out Romans 1, Ephesians 2, 4, sin is committed by the sinner. But here, in Romans 7, it is no longer I who do it.
You guys speak of simplicity, but this is the true simplicity. Just read the words of God.
What I read in these pages simply astounds me! Its really very sad!
I have only this . . .
Romans 5:1-2 LITV
(1) Then being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
(2) through whom also we have had access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we glory on the hope of the glory of God.
Of course Paul is referring to a both new and old natures:
Rom 7:17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Notice . . . "it is no longer I who do it . . ." Something's changed.
Check out Romans 1, Ephesians 2, 4, sin is committed by the sinner. But here, in Romans 7, it is no longer I who do it.
You guys speak of simplicity, but this is the true simplicity. Just read the words of God.
God loved us so He gave us of His Spirit and empowered us to walk as His Son by grace through faith.
Care to actually respond to my post? Perhaps address the Scriptures I quote?
If not, I understand.
When you deny the reality of the Christian life, as explained by Paul here in Romans 7, for instance, you act to destroy the faith of the hearers.
Paul describes a war between the new nature and the old nature. You deny this, and claim sinless perfection. You claim that if someone sins, they are not saved.
I've given a very simple presentation straight from Scripture showing this is not true.
The Romans 7 verses have been covered in this thread...Paul goes through the process of what it was like before being in Christ.
Do you care to comment on my response? If you understand the bible you will see that I cover the verses with my statement.
Your response is non sequitor.
This is a Romans 7 thread . . . is it not?
Why would you not want to directly reply to my statements?
Here is an actual verse that shows the new nature...
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
So watch carefully...
BEFORE Christ...not I but sin lives in me
AFTER Christ....not I but Christ lives in me
Can you see the difference?
No Romans 7 is NOT a licence to sin. We do NOT have a licence to sin anywhere in the scriptures.
If we are saved, the law of the spirit convicts us of our sin and as we respond to Him and confess our sins, we are able to move on.
1 John 1:7-10
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. [sup]8 [/sup]If we say that we are without sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. [sup]9 [/sup]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [sup]10 [/sup]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar and his word is not in us.
The Greek word for 'cleanses' is the present tense verb katharizō, and in this context has the connotation of ;
Walking in the light and being cleansed, is an ongoing process. It is NOT a one time thing, it is a continual and lifetime process.
Jesus recognized that ALL sinned. In John 8:7-9; “The man among you without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” [sup]8 [/sup]Once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. [sup]9 [/sup]At this, those who had heard began to leave one by one, starting with the oldest; and Jesus alone was left, with the woman standing before him.
The Bible says there is ONLY one that is good...GOD. We are ALL sinners SAVED by grace. Without Christ in our lives we are just sinners.
If we are saved, the law of the spirit convicts us of our sin and as we respond to Him and confess our sins, we are able to move on.
1 John 1:7-10
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. [sup]8 [/sup]If we say that we are without sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. [sup]9 [/sup]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [sup]10 [/sup]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar and his word is not in us.
The Greek word for 'cleanses' is the present tense verb katharizō, and in this context has the connotation of ;
1) to free from defilement of sin and from faults
2) to purify from wickedness
3) to free from guilt of sin, to purify
4) to consecrate by cleansing or purifying
5) to consecrate, dedicate
Walking in the light and being cleansed, is an ongoing process. It is NOT a one time thing, it is a continual and lifetime process.
Jesus recognized that ALL sinned. In John 8:7-9; “The man among you without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” [sup]8 [/sup]Once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. [sup]9 [/sup]At this, those who had heard began to leave one by one, starting with the oldest; and Jesus alone was left, with the woman standing before him.
The Bible says there is ONLY one that is good...GOD. We are ALL sinners SAVED by grace. Without Christ in our lives we are just sinners.
I agree with you! With Christ in our lives we can become overcomers just as He....
Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
We overcome by faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. Not by faith in what we do.
1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
NKJV
It doesn't say our works overcome the world.
Why will Jesus say to some depart from me i never knew you ? these people thought they had what is being spoken of here....apparently they didn't....in terms of their deception there are at least two possibilities,either they trusted in themselves and their works and not Jesus or they believed their trust in Jesus meant they could live lawless and sinful lives without consequence and Jesus would save them anyway....he says depart from me you who work iniquity.
But this faith actualy overcomes the world...just like faith actually chases demons away or heals the sick. Faith is not a philosophical position...but the means by which we enter into God's realm...where NOTHING is impossible.
We have faith in what God can do THROUGH us. That is true Christianity.
We are not an audience to God's works...we are participants in His works towards men.
You want to use faith as a means to gain personal power just as Simon the sourceror did.
Acts 8:17-21
17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
NKJV
It seems to me that you think you pay for the Holy Spirit by your works of the flesh.
Our faith doesn't chase anything away. It is not a force that insitutes works. Our faith indicates we trust in God. It doesn't give us the power to fly heal the sick or gain riches. Nor does it give us the power to become sinless in the flesh. Jesus makes us sinless in the Spirit, the flesh counts for nothing.
Way off base...
It doesn't cost anything physically to be born from above and receive the Holy Spirit...is this really how far off you are willing to take this?Your gnosticism is showing again... :wub:
READ THESE WORDS::: """No child of God wants to sin""" but they are honest before God and know that they do. They are not self-righteous.
You are just like all the rest of the religious. You think that just because a person says they still sin in the flesh they are WANTING TO SIN ALL OVER THE PLACE. Those are the words that the religious use against the children of God.
Unless you are completely sinless you are in no position to judge others about their sins. And if you say you have no sins then you have been judged by the word of God that say "if a man says he has no sin then the truth is not in him. -- If you are saying you have no sin in your life then I see no truth in you.
"We want the facts to fit the preconceptions. When they don't, it is easier to ignore the facts than to change the preconceptions." - Jassamyn West
You are not believing the bible testimony but setting up your own righteousness.
This accusation of depending on human works points back to you who are focused on what the natural man can do...you are stuck in the works of men.
I am simply believing God and being condemned for it.
OR...a third option is that they were so secure in themselves and their belief of being righteous, after all they said we did this and that for you, and had bragged ALL there life about how good and self-righteous they were, that they had no idea just how bad off they were spiritually. A sinful person would not be doing all these things in Jesus' name. Only those who thought they were sinless and right with God would do those things.
James 4:6; But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
Are we proudly sinless or sinfully proud? Are we a humble sinner or a sinner that is humble? Who does God prefer?
Luke 18:9-14
[sup]9 [/sup]To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: [sup]10 [/sup]“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [sup]11 [/sup]The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. [sup]12 [/sup]I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
[sup]13 [/sup]“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
[sup]14 [/sup]“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Now, if all you people that claim you do NOT sin, DON'T get this scriptures, I'm afraid your are worse off than the Pharisee.
In any event you have been properly instructed. Proceed at your OWN risk. I'm outta here.
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