Is same sex attraction lust driven?

[GEN2REV]

Through behaviour modification?

I'm not sure that the root cause was dealt with...

Ok.

I didn't say anything about behavior modification and that's not the only approach that psychology could've employed. There is also psychological counseling, hypnotherapy (we're talking pre-60's, 70's), psychotherapy, etc.

I haven't seen the documentation in a long time, but I can look it up.

The point is there was documented success so that it was considered treatable psychologically, meaning not considered at that time to be just a natural human state of being.

ETA: Heterosexuality is lust-driven as well. Especially in this day and age.

 

[JohnPaul]

It's okay. Maybe you don't realize the givernment controls the media and they are very invested in protecting their evil deeds from being exposed.

I believe it TLHKAJ.

 

[JohnPaul]

Yes, under the "NASA" front. Some if my programming involved NASA.

He was a Rocket Scientist that’s why they brought him here and not even talking about the rat lines to South America set up by the Vatican to smuggle out the Nazis.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I believe it TLHKAJ.

Thank you....

 

[JohnPaul]

Thank you....

I know I’m derailing the thread, but I just want to make one last comment before I get back on track, I don’t know how humanity can be so cruel as to what those poor people suffered during WWII, and then for the Church to help their victimizers escape just baffles me.

 

[Lambano]

The gay couples I know have genuine affection for one another, just like straight couples. They’re not predators. I just don’t want to know what goes on in their bedrooms.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Hi there,

Looking at Romans 1, I am reading that the factor that births same sex attraction is lust.

Here is the passage...

Unbelief and Its Consequences
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

OK so this issue is at the heart of the conversion therapy laws because the law forbids prayer and ministry aimed at seeing a change in sexual 'orientation' which Romans seems to say is lust driven.

If this is correct, then the claim that it is something born with, does not hold.

But the Bill hinges on this same sex 'orientation' being immutable and therefore a no-go area for ministry, prayer and deliverance.

I believe in a healthy hetro-sexual relationship, lust is not and shouldn't be the driver.

Comments most welcome.

It is lust driven. My half-brother was homo-sexual. I wasn't brought up with him, so had little influence on him. I had an older brother whom I was brought up with. They say "absence of father" leads to all sorts of evil. Well, my brother and I were fortunate. Without a father's guidance and firm loving relationship with much quality time spent together, kids go off the path. My father was a work-aholic, working two jobs and so he did not keep an eye for what his son was up to, nor spent much time with him. The young boys up the road introduced him to homosexuality at a very young age - he liked it and he accepted it. It felt good and so before he experienced a girlfriend, it was too late, he got locked into that lifestyle and of course had a support system. God gave him over to this lustful life. The lie circulated that it wasn't his fault, 'Gays are born this way!" This get's them off the hook of being responsible for their actions. So I suppose anything you choose to do even though society says it's wrong, you can say, I was born this way, with a natural tendency or proclivity to do this. Are we born to lie, to be thieves, to murder, to be destructive? He never experienced sex with a woman. Years later, he died of AIDS, just around the time they came out with Protease inhibitors at 34 years old. I told him, "If you never had sex, you wouldn't be homosexual!" He agreed, "You're probably right."
God clearly made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. He made sexual organs, that fit well and of course a digestive system, colon and anus specifically made to excrete waste - not to use for sexual enjoyment. Enjoyment? That is just shitty sex. How can you involve feces with something that is supposed be an expression of love? Wow! It is and always has been a perversion. Before 1974, Psychiatrists diagnosed homosexuality as "Mental Disorder". Right, you are confused and don't have things in order - the natural order that God created. Oh well, I hope I am not breaking forum rules? It might be illegal to say what I just said. Stuff like that is censored and labeled homophobic.
That said, why legalize it and create a bill supporting something that only 2-3% of the population want? Most people are against it but over the years, this small group with a loud voice has warn out the public and the public has given into their wants. "Let them have what they want - who cares!" Every TV show has to promote this as something normal. It's not, but that's Hollywood, of the liberal mindset and anything goes with liberalism ... to the point of choosing your own gender. Really? Any honest doctor would tell that it is impossible to change your sex. Because every cell has this genetic code that says you are either male or female. Even if you have an operation and inject hormones, you can't change your sex. You can pretend to be something else.
So what is all this transgender crap now being taught in schools? It's all about population control. If a portion of the population does not procreate, well that helps with the over-population. What else contributes to population control? Abortions had killed 50 million in the states over almost 50 years, that's about 13 % depopulated. But that's not enough. This NWO wants to depopulate the planet by 90%. So they need some help. Vaccines that sterilize, cause miscarrages and death put out there as a cure for a fake pandemic will do the trick. Create a genetic therapy that altars DNA, destroys the immune system, and includes little tiny razor blades (graphene oxide) that cause blood clots, mycarditis, heart attacks, etc.
So I guess that Bill is coming out next as it is being enforced in many other countries, that everyone must take the jab.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Regardless of exactly how, it's all because of the fall. We know that much.

I have debated as to whether to share some of my own experience or not. But I think that my testimony can help some who struggle to understand their own issues. And it can help those who don't have these struggles to at least understand some of how this can happen to a child.

As you know, I was born into an extreme form of abuse called SRA (satanic ritual abuse) and also MK Ultra (governmental trauma based mind control). As that was the case, I was traumatized in every way imaginable. And (please bear with me) ...from at least age 2 to 3, I began being trained in how to please men in various sexual ways. This was part of something called "beta/kitten programming."

I had parts of myself that were used in sexual ways by men. But there was also sexual abuse from women (although not predominantly by women). In my regular daily life, you would have seen me as a quiet, even shy person. It was extreme at times to the point that people would ask if I could talk. I was very very cautious of people. Then, at other times, I was normal, talkative, etc.

But if anyone approached me, I backed up a bit to keep my personal space. I was very guarded. On a conscious level, I didn't know why. But if someone approached me and came into my space, my body would feel ...like it was gearing up for violation, or for some sexual encounter. So I kept my space very guarded if at all possible.

Then, when I came to Christ at age 13, some things changed. I was head over heels in love with Jesus. I knew He loved me and I immersed myself in the Word (KJV), prayer, and Christian (southern gospel) music. Hatred was replaced with love. Many of my struggles just faded away or disappeared instantly. And yet, when I was in a church, I experienced very invasive flashbacks of traumas that happened in rituals (inside "christian" churches), including rapes.

There was one woman I came to trust. She prayed with me a lot. And I spent a lot of time in her home. I allowed my walls to come down a good bit. But there were times that (as a 14 yr old) when she would approach me, my body would automatically gear up and respond sexually ...and it horrified me! I knew that wasn't my desire, so why was my body betraying me?! I was grounded enough in the Lord, that I held onto Him and trusted He would take care of it.

Years later, when I began walking through healing of my past trauma, the Lord taught my heart why I struggled in that way. There is something called "body memories." And some have termed it, "the body remembers." Memory is stored in all the body, not just the brain. My mind and body were trained to interpret physical closeness in a sexual way. As a way to cope with extreme physical and sexual trauma, a child will adapt. A mental process happens ... "I can't stop this, so I will have to survive it." Her mind may even create a separate part who goes along with what is happening, or parts who "enjoy" it (pleasure+pain) ...because that is survival.

So I understood that my body responded sexually... not because it was "how I was" ....but because my body was trained to expect sexual abuse/experiences anytime my personal space was invaded. With a revelation of truth and understanding comes opportunity to heal and overcome.

That was long-winded, and idk if it helps or not. But that is my experience and others who have experienced even just "regular" abuse may be able to relate in ways. That is my hopes.

I am sorry you had to suffer this abuse as a child. This was traumatic and horrific. It's big business these days, child trafficking, children becoming sex slaves. You didn't mention parents. May I ask, were they the ones subjecting you to this? Or whoever subjected you to this, had control and so at thirteen, how did you escape them? Thank God you did escape.

 

[GEN2REV]

Every TV show has to promote this as something normal. It's not, but that's Hollywood, of the liberal mindset and anything goes with liberalism ...

I mean Can we get a freakin BREAK?!!

It is so ridiculous that I've been certain many times that the movie/show script is fully complete when some Hollywood bureaucrat says "Great. Now just add a gay relationship and some bi-racial characters, etc." It is so not in sync, many times, with the rest of the plot that it totally ruins the entire movie/show.

Can't tell you how many times I've been completely turned off by this dynamic in some movie/show NOT because there's gay people but because it is obviously so FORCED into the story that it doesn't jibe at all with the rest of what's going on.

They have literally shoved this whole agenda in the world's face - like it or not. It is so tasteless that Television and movies over the last couple decades have PLUMMETED in their general quality because they won't let screen writers have any freedom with their creativity. Everything has to fit within a specific agenda now. I'm sure that's always been the case, but more so in recent decades than ever before.

Ok. Rant over.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I am sorry you had to suffer this abuse as a child. This was traumatic and horrific. It's big business these days, child trafficking, children becoming sex slaves. You didn't mention parents. May I ask, were they the ones subjecting you to this? Or whoever subjected you to this, had control and so at thirteen, how did you escape them? Thank God you did escape.

My parents were involved, and also victims themselves. I come from both illuminati and masonic bloodlines on both sides of my family. I was born in by bloodline, multigenerational.

But my parents were not my only abusers. My parents' role was to keep me dissociative by reinforcing programming through trauma/abuse. This is the case with virtually all survivors of SRA/MK. In this way, they were my first cult handlers. And yet, I had aunts and uncles who were also some of my handlers and abusers. I was abused by relatives, and by neighbors (who also were aligned with the cult), priests, ministers/pastors, military personnel, and well known politicians (presidents, etc).
One thing I remember is an actress at a ritual that took place inside a church when I was around age 6 or 7.

So many people are involved ...even to the vatican and the black pope (when I was about age 10 ...around 1982). I was taken to the Temple Mount, the Mayan pyramids, and the UN for rituals and ceremonies. Some of my earliest memories are of being taken to military bases, including underground bases (DUMBs ...deep underground military bases). My main programmer was Lt Col Michael Aquino. He wasn't the only one, but he was my main programmer, as he and his wife are also connected to me by bloodline.

And I will add... one of the things they purposefully do is create sexual confusion. I know survivors who were programmed to present as "gay" or "lesbian." In other words, their front alter system would be programmed to believe they are homosexual. And this is done through intense trauma.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hi there,

Looking at Romans 1, I am reading that the factor that births same sex attraction is lust.

Here is the passage...

Unbelief and Its Consequences
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

OK so this issue is at the heart of the conversion therapy laws because the law forbids prayer and ministry aimed at seeing a change in sexual 'orientation' which Romans seems to say is lust driven.

If this is correct, then the claim that it is something born with, does not hold.

But the Bill hinges on this same sex 'orientation' being immutable and therefore a no-go area for ministry, prayer and deliverance.

I believe in a healthy hetro-sexual relationship, lust is not and shouldn't be the driver.

Comments most welcome.

Everything of world that man desires is lust..
1 John 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁵ Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
¹⁶ For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
¹⁷ And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

“Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.”
— Proverbs 27:20 (KJV)

 

[TLHKAJ]

Or whoever subjected you to this, had control and so at thirteen, how did you escape them? T

I failed to answer this. I came to Christ at age 13, but my trauma/abuse continued for many years after. It's difficult to explain if you aren't familiar with SRA and MK and the effects of it. I developed alter personalities, having had my mind shattered from inside the womb and forward. That is something that the Lord brought me to and began healing me (integrations) beginning in my late 20's and early 30's.

When one is born in generationally by bloodline, marriages are set up, and most often, a husband's role is to handle his wife and their children. That being the case, I married a man who also is multigenerational illuminati/masonic bloodline cult. His role was (is) to monitor me and make sure I am accessible to the cult. And yes, I have taken steps toward safety. But I still live under threat. And when/if they find opportunity, they have and do impose punishments for my non-compliance with their programming. That's the reality I live with ...and it is the same for most other survivors of SRA/MK.

I will share this post to my SRA/MK thread.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

My parents were involved, and also victims themselves. I come from both illuminati and masonic bloodlines on both sides of my family. I was born in by bloodline, multigenerational.

But my parents were not my only abusers. My parents' role was to keep me dissociative by reinforcing programming through trauma/abuse. This is the case with virtually all survivors of SRA/MK. In this way, they were my first cult handlers. And yet, I had aunts and uncles who were also some of my handlers and abusers. I was abused by relatives, and by neighbors (who also were aligned with the cult), priests, ministers/pastors, military personnel, and well known politicians (presidents, etc).
One thing I remember is an actress at a ritual that took place inside a church when I was around age 6 or 7.

So many people are involved ...even to the vatican and the black pope (when I was about age 10 ...around 1982). I was taken to the Temple Mount, the Mayan pyramids, and the UN for rituals and ceremonies. Some of my earliest memories are of being taken to military bases, including underground bases (DUMBs ...deep underground military bases). My main programmer was Lt Col Michael Aquino. He wasn't the only one, but he was my main programmer, as he and his wife are also connected to me by bloodline.

And I will add... one of the things they purposefully do is create sexual confusion. I know survivors who were programmed to present as "gay" or "lesbian." In other words, their front alter system would be programmed to believe they are homosexual. And this is done through intense trauma.

That is terrible ... unforgivable. Opps, that is not being Christian to imply that.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hi there,

Looking at Romans 1, I am reading that the factor that births same sex attraction is lust.

Here is the passage...

Unbelief and Its Consequences
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

OK so this issue is at the heart of the conversion therapy laws because the law forbids prayer and ministry aimed at seeing a change in sexual 'orientation' which Romans seems to say is lust driven.

If this is correct, then the claim that it is something born with, does not hold.

But the Bill hinges on this same sex 'orientation' being immutable and therefore a no-go area for ministry, prayer and deliverance.

I believe in a healthy hetro-sexual relationship, lust is not and shouldn't be the driver.

Comments most welcome.

Lust is the base sin behind all sexual sin!

 

[JohnPaul]

Lust is the base sin behind all sexual sin!

To lust after the same sex something has to be mentally wrong with you, that is not normal, lust for the opposite sex is normal as that is how God created us to be attracted to the opposite sex, though lust is a sin, that we have the power to control it, but to be attracted to the same sex is a mental disorder.

 

[Jim B]

The gay couples I know have genuine affection for one another, just like straight couples. They’re not predators. I just don’t want to know what goes on in their bedrooms.

I agree with you Lambano. Many people discard these verses and obsess on people's sexual activities...

"For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen." Romans 1:21-25

"And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done.They are filled with every kind of unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice. They are rife with envy, murder, strife, deceit, hostility. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, contrivers of all sorts of evil, disobedient to parents, senseless, covenant-breakers, heartless, ruthless. Although they fully know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:28-31

So these people that some so blithely condemn for their sexual activity must also be guilty of unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice, envy, murder, strife, deceit, hostility, gossip, slander, hating God, insolence, arrogance, boasting, contriving , disobedience, senselessness, breaking covenants, and being heartless and ruthless.

So the focus of this part of the epistle is on corrupt belief, idolatry, the worship of nature, and many other sins, not on sexual activity. The sexual practices and other sins mentioned in the first part of Romans are the result of God abandoning them. Unless one can equate corrupt belief and idolatry, nature worship, and the other sins mentioned with the accused they are just indulging in false judgement.

Or, more properly, they are compelled to falsely judge their neighbors based on one activity alone while neglecting all the other sins for which God abandoned them.

Personally the LGBTs that I personally know are kind, loving people. That is all I care to know about them; that is all that counts.

 

[Mantis]

My pastor (or preacher as likes to be called) said that one out of every four people have been molested or sexually abused as a child. That blows my mind. I was lucky to be untouched I guess. Man there are a lot of evil people out there.

 

[GEN2REV]

I agree with you Lambano. Many people discard these verses and obsess on people's sexual activities...

Um ... because it's an abominable offense to God, maybe?? Hmmm.

Personally the LGBTs that I personally know are kind, loving people. That is all I care to know about them; that is all that counts.

Yeah, well, ... not in God's eyes. And in Christianity, that is all that counts.

This is a Christian forum, not a General Discussion site.

You sound like a Universalist. God has nothing to do with that position.

If you practice LGBT sex, and do not fully repent, you go to hell. Period.

God's words, not mine.

 

[Jim B]

My pastor (or preacher as likes to be called) said that one out of every four people have been molested or sexually abused as a child. That blows my mind. I was lucky to be untouched I guess. Man there are a lot of evil people out there.

I'm happy for you.

However, this thread is about lust-driven same-sex attraction (or so the OP says). Unfortunately, some people equate the two, which I personally consider to be not only irrational, but also unChristian.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To lust after the same sex something has to be mentally wrong with you, that is not normal, lust for the opposite sex is normal as that is how God created us to be attracted to the opposite sex, though lust is a sin, that we have the power to control it, but to be attracted to the same sex is a mental disorder.

Well I don't know about mentally wrong! I know for sure spiritually wrong that you have been given over to a darkened mind. It is always spiritual first.

Lately I have put it to prayer that it is possible, that children at a young age NOW, can actually be homosexual! Given our culture has been handed over by god, it is possible that children at a young age are also turned over. It is a dreadful thought, but I wonder.