IS SHEOL REAL?

[Grailhunter]

What is Sheol?

The general characteristics of an afterlife in a place called Sheol was not unique to the ancient Israelites. Most ancient religions believed in a spiritual place like Sheol…. an afterlife with various descriptions.

The word Sheol appears 60 times in the Hebrew Bible.

In 14 verses in the Hebrew Bible souls were said to “gather with their people or gather with their fathers.”

14 Bible verses about Gathered To One's People

(Descriptors; Hebrew Bible vs Old Testament….the term Old Testament refers to the Christianized version of the Hebrew Bible, that includes several alterations including the removal of God’s name….or the Tetragrammaton YHWH around 6,000 times and replacing it with the generic term God or Lord. And changed all the names of persons, places, and things from Y's to J's in a thousand places?)

Although Sheol is the oldest known destination for souls, its description is inconsistent in the Hebrew Bible and the other religions of antiquity. As a whole it is not a place of punishment but rather where all souls go …. good people and bad people.

(Before the New Testament, Heaven was the abode of God, not people…. Souls.)

The existence of Sheol is mostly ignored in many Christian denominations. In some Christian beliefs Sheol appears as a shadow tradition having different characteristics.

The Catholics have a couple traditions, one where a place like Sheol is possibly a spiritual place of "temporary" punishment called purgatory, with various characteristics and connections to the physical world.

In another tradition Sheol has levels, the top of which is a good place referred to as paradise. Which would make some sense because Sheol would have been the oldest destination for souls and wyn would God make the whole thing unpleasant for souls? Since the Bible does not indicate that Yeshua went from the cross to Heaven, some believe that Yeshua’s reference to Paradise when He was on cross was the upper level of Sheol….the good part. Where Christ said to the thief on the cross next to Him…Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” Luke 23:43 So in this tradition Yeshua and the thief went to Paradise in Sheol.

In some variations of this tradition Yeshua goes from the cross to Sheol to teach “the Gospel” to the Jews and people there, as an offering of salvation to them. Some see the reference to “spirits in prison” in the New Testament as a reference to this event….. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1st Peter 3:19 and 4:6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

As time went on Rabbinical Judaism and the Talmud further expanded on Jewish beliefs regarding Sheol.

So we are left with the question….Is Sheol real? With it being mentioned 60 times in the Hebrew Bible, it is clear that the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews believed in it and as it is they still do. The rest is traditions.

 

[Cristo Rei]

What is Sheol?

The general characteristics of an afterlife in a place called Sheol was not unique to the ancient Israelites. Most ancient religions believed in a spiritual place like Sheol…. an afterlife with various descriptions.

The word Sheol appears 60 times in the Hebrew Bible.

In 14 verses in the Hebrew Bible souls were said to “gather with their people or gather with their fathers.”

14 Bible verses about Gathered To One's People

(Descriptors; Hebrew Bible vs Old Testament….the term Old Testament refers to the Christianized version of the Hebrew Bible, that includes several alterations including the removal of God’s name….or the Tetragrammaton YHWH around 6,000 times and replacing it with the generic term God or Lord.)

Although Sheol is the oldest known destination for souls, its description is inconsistent in the Hebrew Bible and the other religions of antiquity. As a whole it is not a place of punishment but rather where all souls go….good people and bad people.

(Before the New Testament, Heaven was the abode of God, not people…. Souls.)

The existence of Sheol is mostly ignored in many Christian denominations. In some Christian beliefs Sheol appears as a shadow tradition having different characteristics.

The Catholics have a couple traditions, one where a place like Sheol is possibly a spiritual place of punishment called purgatory, with various characteristics and connections to the physical world.

In another tradition Sheol has levels, the top of which is a good place referred to as paradise. Since the Bible does not indicate that Yeshua went from the cross to Heaven, some believe that Yeshua’s reference to Paradise when He was on cross was the upper level Sheol….the good part. Where Christ said to the thief on the cross next to Him…Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” Luke 23:43 So in this tradition Yeshua and the thief went to Paradise in Sheol.

In some variations of this tradition Yeshua goes from the cross to Sheol to teach “the Gospel” to the Jews and people there, as an offering of salvation to them. Some see the reference to “spirits in prison” in the New Testament as a reference to this event….. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1st Peter 3:19

As time went on Rabbinical Judaism and the Talmud further expanded on Jewish beliefs regarding Sheol.

So we are left with the question….Is Sheol real? With it being mentioned 60 times in the Hebrew Bible, it is clear that the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews believed in it and as it is they still do. The rest is traditions.

Good question.
I believe the New Testement refers to Sheol as Hades. The Greek translation i think.
My first reaction is that the Catholics are in some way right. There is another place besides heaven and hell. They call it purgatory as you mentioned. Much of its details are probably wrong but the bottom line for me is that there appears to be another place besides heaven and hell and its referred to as Sheol and/or Hades.
Just my opinion anyway

 

[Grailhunter]

Good question.
I believe the New Testement refers to Sheol as Hades. The Greek translation i think.
My first reaction is that the Catholics are in some way right. There is another place besides heaven and hell. They call it purgatory as you mentioned. Much of its details are probably wrong but the bottom line for me is that there appears to be another place besides heaven and hell and its referred to as Sheol and/or Hades.
Just my opinion anyway

There ya go.....Sheol....Hades....Hell.... Christianity has kinda mingled all of this....long story....the short if it.
There is no Greek word for Hell....the word comes from a more modern word that came from the German.
The Apostles were tasked with describing their beliefs in a Pagan language that had little connections to morals. For the Greeks and Romans the word sin meant the arrow or spear missing the target....only. No moral implication.

Hades was a Pagan god that reigned over a spiritual place of the same name. The Christians used it to define a fiery place of eternal punishment. They understood the concept of horrible eternal punishment and defined it in different ways. Christ defined it as fire....“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." So we can see that Yeshua knew of a fiery place of eternal punishment....but again the word hell appears in Bible but not the actual scriptures....the word used in the scripture is γέενναν meaning Gehenna. Gehenna a trash dump that burnt trash.....it was used as an illustration of eternal fiery torment.

A lot of the information about Sheol is tradition, so I am not trying start a new belief.....just information.

 

[Charlie24]

What is Sheol?

The general characteristics of an afterlife in a place called Sheol was not unique to the ancient Israelites. Most ancient religions believed in a spiritual place like Sheol…. an afterlife with various descriptions.

The word Sheol appears 60 times in the Hebrew Bible.

In 14 verses in the Hebrew Bible souls were said to “gather with their people or gather with their fathers.”

14 Bible verses about Gathered To One's People

(Descriptors; Hebrew Bible vs Old Testament….the term Old Testament refers to the Christianized version of the Hebrew Bible, that includes several alterations including the removal of God’s name….or the Tetragrammaton YHWH around 6,000 times and replacing it with the generic term God or Lord. And changed all the names of persons, places, and things from Y's to J's in a thousand places?)

Although Sheol is the oldest known destination for souls, its description is inconsistent in the Hebrew Bible and the other religions of antiquity. As a whole it is not a place of punishment but rather where all souls go …. good people and bad people.

(Before the New Testament, Heaven was the abode of God, not people…. Souls.)

The existence of Sheol is mostly ignored in many Christian denominations. In some Christian beliefs Sheol appears as a shadow tradition having different characteristics.

The Catholics have a couple traditions, one where a place like Sheol is possibly a spiritual place of "temporary" punishment called purgatory, with various characteristics and connections to the physical world.

In another tradition Sheol has levels, the top of which is a good place referred to as paradise. Since the Bible does not indicate that Yeshua went from the cross to Heaven, some believe that Yeshua’s reference to Paradise when He was on cross was the upper level of Sheol….the good part. Where Christ said to the thief on the cross next to Him…Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” Luke 23:43 So in this tradition Yeshua and the thief went to Paradise in Sheol.

In some variations of this tradition Yeshua goes from the cross to Sheol to teach “the Gospel” to the Jews and people there, as an offering of salvation to them. Some see the reference to “spirits in prison” in the New Testament as a reference to this event….. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1st Peter 3:19

As time went on Rabbinical Judaism and the Talmud further expanded on Jewish beliefs regarding Sheol.

So we are left with the question….Is Sheol real? With it being mentioned 60 times in the Hebrew Bible, it is clear that the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews believed in it and as it is they still do. The rest is traditions.

Sheol is Hebrew for the place of of dead in the underworld. In other words it's hell, the place of the spiritual dead.

The word "Gehenna" in the Greek comes from the ancient "valley of Hinnom" in the ancient days "the sons of Hinnom. It's a direct reference to the "lake of fire" in Revelation.

It's the place where ancient Israel offered there children in the flames of fire to false Gods, not far from Jerusalem.

Jesus used the word "Gehenna" several times in the Gospels, and the Jewish people knew exactly what He was talking about!

 

[Grailhunter]

Sheol is Hebrew for the place of of dead in the underworld. In other words it's hell, the place of the spiritual dead.

The word "Gehenna" in the Greek comes from the ancient "valley of Hinnom" in the ancient days "the sons of Hinnom. It's a direct reference to the "lake of fire" in Revelation.

It's the place where ancient Israel offered there children in the flames of fire to false Gods, not far from Jerusalem.

Jesus used the word "Gehenna" several times in the Gospels, and the Jewish people knew exactly what He was talking about!

I have already explained this....see post 1 and 3.
Hell is not a scriptural word....the word is not in the actual scriptures or in the minds of the Apostles.
Christ used Gehenna as an illustration of an eternal fiery punishment.

 

[Charlie24]

I have already explained this....see post 1 and 3.
Hell is not scriptural word....the word is not in the actual scriptures or in the minds of the Apostles.
Christ used Gehenna as an illustration of an eternal fiery punishment.

Ok, but I have to disagree.

The word "Gehenna" comes from the "Valley of Hinnom" where Israel offered their children in the flames to the god Moleck.

When Christ used that word, it was a literal place to ones who heard it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ok, but I have to disagree.

The word "Gehenna" comes from the "Valley of Hinnom" where Israel offered their children in the flames to the god Moleck.

When Christ used that word, it was a literal place to ones who heard it.

Well you do not have to disagree....
Of course they knew where Gehenna was, it was a burning trash dump in the Valley of Hinnom....where they would throw trash and the bodies of the executed.....but that is not why Christ used it as an illustration of an eternal fiery punishment.

 

[Charlie24]

Well you do not have to disagree....
Of course they knew where Gehenna was, it was a burning trash dump in the Valley of Hinnom....where they would throw trash and the bodies of the executed.....but that is not why Christ used it as an illustration of an eternal fiery punishment.

The word "hell" that Christ uses is "geenna" which comes from "gehenna" which is a direct reference to "the valley of Hinnom/the sons of Hinnom. It is the place where Israel passed their children through the fire, killing them in the flames to Moleck.

The Jews know their history very well and knew what Christ was telling them.

Matt. 5:29
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (geenna).

They knew exactly what Christ was referring to, literal human beings, literally burning in the literal flames.

 

[Charlie24]

The word "hell" that Christ uses is "geenna" which comes from "gehenna" which is a direct reference to "the valley of Hinnom/the sons of Hinnom. It is the place where Israel passed their children through the fire, killing them in the flames to Moleck.

The Jews know their history very well and knew what Christ was telling them.

Matt. 5:29
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (geenna).

They knew exactly what Christ was referring to, literal human beings, literally burning in the literal flames.

Had to look up the verse, couldn't remember.

2 Chron. 28:1-3
"Ahaz was twenty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem: but he did not that which was right in the sight of the Lord, like David his father:

For he walked in the ways of the kings of Israel, and made also molten images for Baalim.

Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel."

 

[ButterflyJones]

No.

 

[Grailhunter]

The word "hell" that Christ uses is "geenna" which comes from "gehenna" which is a direct reference to "the valley of Hinnom/the sons of Hinnom. It is the place where Israel passed their children through the fire, killing them in the flames to Moleck.

Why are acting like someone disagreeing with that?

Matt. 5:29
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (geenna).

They knew exactly what Christ was referring to, literal human beings, literally burning in the literal flames.

Oh, I see your the kinda of the Jehovah's Witness type that do not even know Yahweh's name......??

If you do not think there is a fiery hell of eternal punishment....then you probably do not think Yeshua is a God.....send us a postcard from hell.

 

[Charlie24]

Why are acting like someone disagreeing with that?

Oh, I see your the kinda of the Jehovah's Witness type that do not even know Yahweh's name......??

If you do not think there is a fiery hell of eternal punishment....then you probably do not think Yeshua is a God.....send us a postcard from hell.

Why are acting like someone disagreeing with that?

Oh, I see your the kinda of the Jehovah's Witness type that do not even know Yahweh's name......??

If you do not think there is a fiery hell of eternal punishment....then you probably do not think Yeshua is a God.....send us a postcard from hell.

LOL, I'm not a JW! Glad to see we agree!

 

[Enoch111]

Although Sheol is the oldest known destination for souls, its description is inconsistent in the Hebrew Bible and the other religions of antiquity. As a whole it is not a place of punishment but rather where all souls go …. good people and bad people.

According to Christ there is torment in Sheol for the unrighteous. See the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus (definitely not a parable). And while it is true that both the righteous and the unrighteous dead went to Sheol BEFORE the resurrection of Christ (while separated by a huge chasm or "great gulf"), it is no longer applicable to those who are in Christ. All believers (souls and spirits) go to Heaven, for "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

 

[Grailhunter]

According to Christ there is torment in Sheol for the unrighteous. See the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus (definitely not a parable). And while it is true that both the righteous and the unrighteous dead went to Sheol BEFORE the resurrection of Christ (while separated by a huge chasm or "great gulf"), it is no longer applicable to those who are in Christ. All believers (souls and spirits) go to Heaven, for "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

Nothing happen like a switch in history.
God never threatened the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews with a fiery place of punishment in the Old Testament. So the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews did not believe in a hell in the Old Testament and the Jews of today still do not believe in a devil or a hell.

God never offered heaven as a reward for being good in the Old Testament, but today Jewish beliefs in heaven vary.

A lot Christians do not study the history between the Testaments and a lot happened.....to the Jews. There were different sects and some believed in angels and the resurrection.....etc

The topic of a place of fiery eternal punishment is a different topic.....the Bible does not state that the Jews or the multitude believed in a place of fiery eternal punishment, but Yeshua is talking about it and no one is saying....what are you talking about?!....so someone knew what it was.

Now in the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus we have some unusual sceneries....
1. I have already explained the issues with the words hades and hell in the scriptures. Hell cannot be in the scriptures because it is a modern word with no Greek equivalent. Hades is a borrowed word from the Greek....Hades being a Greek god that reigned over "an underworld" of the same name. Gehenna was an illustration of the fiery eternal punishment. The confusion for Christians is that this place of a fiery eternal punishment was never given its own name. They used illustrations and a borrowed Greek word. The Greek Hades was not a place of horrible torment...the descriptions varied. Probably the problem was the limitation of the languages of the time period. The Hebrew language did not have a word for a place of fiery eternal punishment and neither did the Greeks.

2. Lazarus ends up in Abraham's bosom, which would go along with the phrases in the Bible "gathered with their fathers" which would means Lazarus was in Sheol. This would be normal...And this is where Abraham would have been because salvation and going to heaven was not an option yet. Salvation and Christ opening the Gates to the many mansions in heaven does not occur until after the crucifixion.

3. But where did the rich man end up? It is suggests he went to Hades.....was that the Greek Hades? What is the status of the place of the fiery eternal punishment? Did it exist at this point? Do people go straight there from dying? No Judgment Day?

4. The parable speaks of fire and torment.....and is says that... he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. OK So is this scenario such that people in this place of torment can see the people in Sheol and talk to them....Able to talk to them while standing in fire.

So the question I have, was this scenario actually something that could happen or is this parable a hypothetical scenario to teach a lesson?
For the sola scriptura people they are kind of stuck and have to accept it as written.
For me it a lesson taught by a hypothetical scenario. Now to address what you said.........

According to Christ there is torment in Sheol for the unrighteous.

Christ did not say that Sheol was a place of torment.

You said... All believers (souls and spirits) go to Heaven, for "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".
This smacks of OSAS and I strongly disagree with this because I believe it can lead people to Hell. As well as people having to answer for lost souls on Judgment Day....Because they taught a belief that you can do what you want and as long as you believe in Yeshua, you go to Heaven no matter what you have done.

 

[Enoch111]

God never threatened the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews with a fiery place of punishment in the Old Testament. So the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews did not believe in a hell in the Old Testament and the Jews of today still do not believe in a devil or a hell.

You should have done your research more carefully and thoroughly. So your above statement is refuted by Scripture in Isaiah 33:14: The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Then we have the teachings of Christ to the Jews (and Gentiles) in Mark 9.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

And before that John the Baptist himself told the Jews about the unquenchable fires of Hell. So neither Jews nor Gentiles have any excuse.

 

[Grailhunter]

Isaiah 33:14: The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Sinners in Zion are terrified; Trembling has seized the godless. “Who among us can live with the consuming fire? Who among us can live with continual burning?” NASB Whatever this scripture is talking about, it is talking about living people in fire. Like I said the Jews do not believe in Hell or the devil.

Then we have the teachings of Christ to the Jews (and Gentiles) in Mark 9.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

And before that John the Baptist himself told the Jews about the unquenchable fires of Hell. So neither Jews nor Gentiles have any excuse.

I guess you should re-read post 14 because all of this was addressed. There is no question that Christ and the Apostle believed and taught the existence of a place of eternal torment by fire.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Sinners in Zion are terrified; Trembling has seized the godless. “Who among us can live with the consuming fire? Who among us can live with continual burning?” NASB Whatever this scripture is talking about, it is talking about living people in fire. Like I said the Jews do not believe in Hell or the devil.


I guess you should re-read post 14 because all of this was addressed. There is no question that Christ and the Apostle believed and taught the existence of a place of eternal torment by fire.

Oh, there are questions.

 

[Grailhunter]

Oh, there are questions.

Questions?

 

[ButterflyJones]

Questions?

Sure.

If Sheol or a Hell exists why didn't God differentiate the destiny of the soul in that regard in Ecclesiastes 12?
"The soul returns to God who gave it."

Not the redeemed soul, the soul. Recalling Genesis when God breathed into the man's nostrils, Adam, Adamu, and he became a living soul.

 

[Grailhunter]

Sure.

If Sheol or a Hell exists why didn't God differentiate the destiny of the soul in that regard in Ecclesiastes 12?
"The soul returns to God who gave it."

Not the redeemed soul, the soul. Recalling Genesis when God breathed into the man's nostrils, Adam, Adamu, and he became a living soul.

I don't think I understand your question.