Is Sunday the "New Covenant Sabbath"?

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Phoneman777

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your statement here is demonstrably false with even the slightest research
((see previous))
but what does scripture say?

the law is not of faith: but, the man that doeth them shall live in them.
(Galatians 3:12)

whatsoever is not of faith is sin
(Romans 14:23)

if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(Galatians 3:8)​

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Galatians 3:13-14)​


pro tip:

Romans has more than 2 chapters, and the epistle to the Galatians exists
"Abraham obeyed My voice..."

"Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."

"David therefore did as God commanded him..."

Covenant participation ALWAYS involves obeying God, Post.
 

Phoneman777

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gotta admit,
it does make my heart glad that after years you have finally acknowledged Romans has more than 2 chapters
#progress

Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(Romans 3:20)​
I not only acknowledge them, I study them. I'm hoping you'll do the same and stop with this ridiculous idea that Christians are to "establish the Old Covenant".
 

Phoneman777

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..
"Demonization" is a postmodern term that I barely regard as worthwhile language at all.

Jesus judges righteous judgment. Do we? I'm comfortable testifying to what the scriptures have already made plain. Beyond that, I cannot go or, at the very least, I tread very lightly. Man looks on the outward appearance. But the lord looks on the heart. We are to call sin by its right name. But the Holy Spirit must be left to perform the duty of His office. Am I speaking error?

Most of the people we converse with in our day-to-day lives are unconverted. Christ told the disciples to rejoice that their names were written in Heaven long before He told them they were yet to be converted. This is a death knell to the doctrine of eternal security.


Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.





And yet, 3ABN's phone lines are jammed with Adventists who weep and lament that they have no assurance of salvation whatsoever. And, sadly, all they get for their trouble is a short list of proof texts to buoy up their spirits.

There is a disconnect between the name that we livest and that which Christ declares we art dead (Revelation 3:1). We cannot expect any fruitful result from feeding erring ones with dos and don'ts, without the transforming power of God alive in their hearts. And we cannot preach that which we do not know ourselves. How many of us Adventists will claim that they are not the object of the true and faithful Witness Who saith:

Revelation 3

15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


All of this hearkens back to the spirit of Rome, which is that we must first be made holy and undefiled so that God can dwell with and within us, as opposed to the Protestant Gospel, which is that we must allow God (for He will not break and enter) into our hearts so that we may be made undefiled and holy. Urging upon folks the necessity of obedience to God ahead of the need of heart change will avail nothing.


As much as we hate to admit it, we Adventists are humans, too. And humans are born self-righteous legalists. All along the pilgrim journey of human beings, the process of Gospel reform takes place if we will allow it.

Sanctification is the work of a lifetime. The mistake that we make is in making a great distinction between the grace and love that justifies, and that which sanctifies. There is very little difference at all. For our part, the process of sanctification is largely just the administration of justification, day after day after day. By beholding Christ we see the need for repentance and confession and the need to be more like Him. Children can understand this perfectly but we grow up and make it complicated.


Of course, this view is in incongruous juxtaposition to the doctrine of eternal security, which is nothing more than an unfortunate, extremist, counterfeit view of the proper Bible teaching of assurance of salvation which is usually argued only with prooftexts which, while usually hermeneutically sound, do more to upset eternal security adherents than to provide any real assurance of a right standing with God.

Our only assurance is in the very Everlasting Gospel itself. When properly understood, the awe of the amazing love of God in Christ is so captivating that nothing but the suffering and death of Christ Himself can be seen, and in such magnificent brilliance that eternal security pales into nothingness compared to the assurance found in the matchless charms of the Son of God.

“The apostles and prophets and holy men of old did not perfect their characters by miracles, by some wonderful and unusual demonstration; but they used the ability given them by God, trusting alone in the righteousness of Christ. And all who will use the same means may secure the same result.”

“The great day of God which is right upon us, awakens neither alarm nor rejoicing in the heart.”

“It is a solemn statement that I make to the (Adventist) church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner. —GCB July 1, 1900—EGW

The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus is our message.


May God bless you as you give it. :)

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Adventists who call 3ABN are likely 2nd or 3rd generation who've fallen victim to complacency. The truth has remained constant: Daily pray, daily study, and daily witness to what Christ has done for us and we'll make heaven right on time...amazes me why any Adventist would question their eternal security when we know we're perfectly secure when our will is surrendered to His will, the evidence of which is obedience to God.

"If our hearts condemn us/condemn us not...."
 

Phoneman777

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Absolutely agreed. However, in Hebrews 7-8, we read this (emphasis mine):

"For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. And it was not without an oath. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath, but this One was made a priest with an oath by the One Who said to Him: 'The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind, "You are a priest forever."’ This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant. The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, but He holds His priesthood permanently, because He continues forever. Consequently, He is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, One Who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; thus it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer. Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law. They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, 'See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.' But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant He mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second."
[Hebrews 7:18-8:7]

I'll just say that it is not of utmost importance that we get the day of the week exactly correct, but just that we, as God said, "(r)emember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8), and that we "not (neglect) to meet together, as is the habit of some, but (encourage) one another, and all the more as (we) see the Day drawing near" (Hebrews 10:25).

Grace and peace to you, Phoneman.
What was the commandment that was "set aside"? One of the Ten Commandments?

No.

In that passage, Paul explains why Jesus is a legit priest, though from the tribe of Judah, not Levi - because His is after the "order of Melchizedek".

What commandment is it? The Mosaic commandment of the priesthood written by Moses - not the Sabbath God wrote in stone which will "stand fast forever and ever" :)
 

PinSeeker

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What was the commandment that was "set aside"? One of the Ten Commandments?
No.
Agreed, but there has been a change in how it is administered; how big everything really always has been, but was only manifest in lesser ways through the lesser covenants, including the Mosaic covenant and including the Sabbath. The advent of Christ changed everything, made everything greater.

If you disagree, certainly I respect that, and we can leave it at that.

Grace and peace to you, Phoneman.
 

Phoneman777

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Agreed, but there has been a change in how it is administered; how big everything really always has been, but was only manifest in lesser ways through the lesser covenants, including the Mosaic covenant and including the Sabbath. The advent of Christ changed everything, made everything greater.

If you disagree, certainly I respect that, and we can leave it at that.

Grace and peace to you, Phoneman.
Change in administration? How?
 

post

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Yes, and our spiritual propositions MUST agree with all of them. How does what you've written here change your belief that Christians are to establish the Old Covenant, as your insistence that "Old Covenant" and "law" are interchangeable?

"Do we make void the (Old Covenant) thorugh faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the (Old Covenant)". Romans 3:31 KJV

previously discussed, see Romans 13:8-10 & Galatians 5:14
 

post

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"Abraham obeyed My voice..."

"Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."

"David therefore did as God commanded him..."

Covenant participation ALWAYS involves obeying God, Post.

previously discussed.

no "if" in Genesis 9, Genesis 12 or 2 Samuel 7
 

post

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Covenant participation ALWAYS involves obeying God, Post.

previously discussed;

you have a Godless, Christless soteriology based on human will, desire and effort.
this is untenable, absolutely unscriptural, and in fact blasphemous.
it leads you to hatred, pride and condemnation for your brother instead of love and thanksgiving.

the fruit is clear; have a look at your own post history one day eh
how many threads do you post for the sole purpose of speaking ill of some hypothetical group of people?
maybe one day, just, in some objective sense, scroll through this forum and count how many "so and so are evil and i hate them" threads you find. take note of it.

God is alive and at work in His children. He saves.
the very express purpose in multiple scriptural witnesses ((see previous posts)) of the sabbath is to be a sign to Israel that it is the LORD who sanctifies.

not you.
you do not sanctify.
it is Christ.
God, and God alone saves.
 
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post

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stop with this ridiculous idea that Christians are to "establish the Old Covenant".

the law is the law is the law.

if you actually studied it, or rather, if you understood what you read, you would not seek to delete 97% of its jots and tittles, then use 0.3% of the remaining 7% to attempt to accuse the saints.

you would be thanking God instead of spending all your energy condemning those He has approved.
 

1stCenturyLady

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A. Even if the first Sunday after the Crucifixion was kept, it is still 3 days too late to be included in the New Covenant.

Oh really? When do you think the New Covenant started?

It started on the Day of Pentecost at the giving of the Holy Spirit. The New Covenant is the ministry of the Spirit. Jesus didn't leave earth until 40 days after the Resurrection, a Sunday. The Day of Pentecost on that Sunday fell on the anniversary of the giving of the Old Covenant, The Ten Commandments.

That is the reason for the tradition of keeping Sunday, but it was never made law, nor called the Sabbath like the Amish do. You can worship on Sunday or Saturday or whatever day you like, for where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them.
 
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BarneyFife

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That's beautiful
You know the days of unleavened bread include the feast of firstfruits

So passover, Christ dies for us
First fruits, He rises for us
Pentecost, He seals us with His Spirit

It's salvation :)
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So now the human race can just hang out here on earth forever or until we all kill each other off.

There's something missing in this view of the atonement, I think.

Sukkot, Yom Kippur, maybe?

The problem with cessationism is that we never get back to Eden.

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BarneyFife

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That is the reason for the tradition of keeping Sunday, but it was never made law, nor called the Sabbath like the Amish do.
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It was called the Sabbath by Southern Baptists for decades. I was there.

Things haven't changed much, evidently:

From: Baptist Faith & Message 2000

VIII. The Lord’s Day

The first day of the week is the Lord’s Day. It is a Christian institution for regular observance. It commemorates the resurrection of Christ from the dead and should include exercises of worship and spiritual devotion, both public and private. Activities on the Lord’s Day should be commensurate with the Christian’s conscience under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Exodus 20:8-11; Matthew 12:1-12; 28:1ff.; Mark 2:27-28; 16:1-7; Luke 24:1-3,33-36; John 4:21-24; 20:1,19-28; Acts 20:7; Romans 14:5-10; I Corinthians 16:1-2; Colossians 2:16; 3:16; Revelation 1:10.

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BarneyFife

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Adventists who call 3ABN are likely 2nd or 3rd generation who've fallen victim to complacency. The truth has remained constant: Daily pray, daily study, and daily witness to what Christ has done for us and we'll make heaven right on time...amazes me why any Adventist would question their eternal security when we know we're perfectly secure when our will is surrendered to His will, the evidence of which is obedience to God.

"If our hearts condemn us/condemn us not...."
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So that's your takeaway from what you quoted from me?
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Phoneman777

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previously discussed, see Romans 13:8-10 & Galatians 5:14
We can discuss other texts of Romans when we're finished dealing with this one: You claim "the Ten Commandment law IS the Old Covenant" and claim Deuteronomy 4:13 KJV is "proof" for that.

If the Ten Commandment law IS in fact the Old Covenant, we should be able to substitute the word "law" for the word "Old Covenant", just as we can substitute the word "Bible" for "Scripture", right or wrong? Let's try it:

"Do we make void the (Old Covenant) through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the (Old Covenant)." - Romans 3:31 KJV​

Now, please check which of the following is correct:

[ ] Christians are to establish the Old Covenant.

[ ] The Old Covenant is not the Ten Commandment law and you are misinterpreting Deuteronomy 4:13 KJV.
 

Phoneman777

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previously discussed.

no "if" in Genesis 9, Genesis 12 or 2 Samuel 7
Post, do you not understand the definition of the word "covenant"? It is an agreement containing promises on the part of TWO parties. If you deny every single covenant in Scripture cannot be distilled down to "God promises to bless, man promises to obey" then you need to reexamine how you look at Scripture.
 

Phoneman777

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you have a Godless, Christless soteriology based on human will, desire and effort. this is untenable, absolutely unscriptural, and in fact blasphemous.
Your opinions are worthless. Back up what you say with evidence.
it leads you to hatred
Leviticus 19:17 KJV says we hate when we ignore our brethren's descent into error, which is why I point yours out. Your leftist progressive concept of "hate" leads you to the unBiblical conclusion that the only criticism allowed is of those who call sin by its rightful name.
the fruit is clear; have a look at your own post history one day eh how many threads do you post for the sole purpose of speaking ill of some hypothetical group of people?
Can I help it if people claim ridiculous things like the wicked can partake of and demonstrate agape? SUCH ERRORS ARE DANGEROUSLY HARMFUL TO UNWARY CHRISTIANS.
maybe one day, just, in some objective sense, scroll through this forum and count how many "so and so are evil and i hate them" threads you find. take note of it. God is alive and at work in His children. He saves. the very express purpose in multiple scriptural witnesses ((see previous posts)) of the sabbath is to be a sign to Israel that it is the LORD who sanctifies.

not you.
you do not sanctify.
it is Christ.
God, and God alone saves.
You can't make up for your unBiblical beliefs by hiding behind "Daddy loves you". Of course God loves and saves to the uttermost - you can't use that as a cloak of dignity for your numerous unBiblical errors.