Many people are opposed to the prosperity message while other's accept it as Bible doctrine...what are your thoughts about it ?
Is The Prosperity Message Scriptural ?
- Thread starter Hollyrock
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While it bases it's claims on scripture, those claims ignore context, fabricate story lines, and stretch credulity. The "prosperity" gospel is one concept to avoid.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
FHII
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I agree with Biggandyy... They do use a lot of scripture, but they fail to see the true context of it (and thus I agree with Episkapos). It is true however, that God can bless us with earthly financial means, but that doesn't always mean Mecedez Benz, big mansions and trips to the French Rivieria. If you have those things, praise God!
The concept from what I have seen is "seed-faith" giving which was started by Oral Roberts. "Plant a single seed, reap little... Plant a field of seed, reap much!" Good advice for farmers, no doubt! Even if you are in the Stock Market, I can see this advice as good. And again, if you are a blue collar worker, putting in overtime will bring you the money you earn and perhaps admiration from the boss man!
The problem is that the Prosperity Preachers take this earthly advice into giving to God. I am 100% for giving to God, for the right reasons. The planting of the seed in the spiritual relm is putting your time in the Bible, praying, tending to the brethren and so forth. Giving money to God, via through his chosen vessel (the Pastor) also is a spiritual part, but only because that Pastor can focus on praying, meditating, reading, preaching and bringing the Gospel to others.
The Bible says give for the teaching and because you love God. Not only your time, your life and your soul, but support them financially as well. What the Prosperity Preachers are preaching is that Give to God, and expect a return in your bank account. The problem is that, yea... God can do that! And probably will, but I seriously doubt he will if you are expecting that. In other words, if you put $100 in the offering, and say in your heart, I expect $1000 back in unexpected blessings by the end of the month, or year.... You haven't gived. You've invested.
The concept from what I have seen is "seed-faith" giving which was started by Oral Roberts. "Plant a single seed, reap little... Plant a field of seed, reap much!" Good advice for farmers, no doubt! Even if you are in the Stock Market, I can see this advice as good. And again, if you are a blue collar worker, putting in overtime will bring you the money you earn and perhaps admiration from the boss man!
The problem is that the Prosperity Preachers take this earthly advice into giving to God. I am 100% for giving to God, for the right reasons. The planting of the seed in the spiritual relm is putting your time in the Bible, praying, tending to the brethren and so forth. Giving money to God, via through his chosen vessel (the Pastor) also is a spiritual part, but only because that Pastor can focus on praying, meditating, reading, preaching and bringing the Gospel to others.
The Bible says give for the teaching and because you love God. Not only your time, your life and your soul, but support them financially as well. What the Prosperity Preachers are preaching is that Give to God, and expect a return in your bank account. The problem is that, yea... God can do that! And probably will, but I seriously doubt he will if you are expecting that. In other words, if you put $100 in the offering, and say in your heart, I expect $1000 back in unexpected blessings by the end of the month, or year.... You haven't gived. You've invested.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I think there is a tendency in our culture to make contributions in order to get something back. We work to get paid / give to charity to get a write off on our taxes / volunteer, to pad a resume / go to church, to get salvation /etc - even our theology promotes this way of thinking - calling salvation a 'free gift', besides being redundant that free gift of salvation is often peddled by tv preachers who then demand a free love offering to pad their pockets with. The prosperity gospel is an extension of this kind of thinking - prayer in exchange for riches. The teaching demands that God conform to our will, rather than us conforming to His will. It also consists of asking God for something that has the power to corrupt our soul rather than sanctify it.
FHII
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Not a bad post Aspen.... I'll have to kick it around a bit, so to speak. I THINK I know the answer to this, based on your words and your many former posts, but do you believe in the Prosperity Gospel. I think you don't. But I'd like a straighter "yes or no" answer.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
no. I believe it promotes the opposite message of the gospel. It is all about the self rather than promoting selflessness.
FHII
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i do believe in the prosperity message. the prosperity message is more then just riches. i have been blessed enough to see an increase in my income along with prosperity within my life. prosperity is different from person to person. the problem comes about when people expect a return or don't believe. as the word teaches that out of your heart the mouth speaks. you can't expect or believe for riches if you don't believe it is possible. all you need to do is find the prosperity scriptures in the word and see what the requirement is for that promise and if you do what is required to achieve the promise then start quoting those verses and over time what you speak will come to pass.
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As far as I am concerned...
If you don't believe in prosperity... Stay poor
If you don't believe in healing... Stay sick
If you don't believe in revival... Stay cold and carnal
To get anything at all from God one must...
1. Ask the Father in Jesus name
2. Believe that you will receive what you asked for.
3. Work towards those ends (Faith without works is dead)
4. Have patience and wait on God.
As far as prosperity...
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. - 1 Timothy 6:17,18,19
I heard about a Texan who was blessed to the point where he could afford 20% tithes to the Lord. Well, the Lord blessed him to the point where he could give 30%. Before that gentleman died he was giving 90% to the Lord. As the old saying goes, you can't out give God. I came here to VA with $500, a 69 Buick, and a suitcase with blue jeans and T-shirts. God has blessed me where I have two nice homes (I let my sister and nephew live in one) and everything I own is paid for. I give about 20% to the Lord and am blessed beyond measure.
The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined. - Psalms 10:2
But... My blessings can become a curse when I begin to take pride in myself and boast about all I have. My riches can become a snare to me when I use them as a personal status tool and forget where I came from. Like the rich young ruler I can love the things that I own more than those of Christ Jesus. But... Really... I know that this is not all mine anyway, even though the titles tell me they are. I will leave this world as I came in it. Only the things I do for Christ Jesus will last.
With these words I also condemn those who have went overboard in the materialistic. I don't begrudge my fellow Christian $100,00 - $300,000 homes. But when they begin to build for themselves multi-million dollar mansions I begin to get off board. Especially with todays TV evangelist. In which I pray for these people that God would reveal to them that you don't have to own it to enjoy it.
If you don't believe in prosperity... Stay poor
If you don't believe in healing... Stay sick
If you don't believe in revival... Stay cold and carnal
To get anything at all from God one must...
1. Ask the Father in Jesus name
2. Believe that you will receive what you asked for.
3. Work towards those ends (Faith without works is dead)
4. Have patience and wait on God.
As far as prosperity...
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. - 1 Timothy 6:17,18,19
I heard about a Texan who was blessed to the point where he could afford 20% tithes to the Lord. Well, the Lord blessed him to the point where he could give 30%. Before that gentleman died he was giving 90% to the Lord. As the old saying goes, you can't out give God. I came here to VA with $500, a 69 Buick, and a suitcase with blue jeans and T-shirts. God has blessed me where I have two nice homes (I let my sister and nephew live in one) and everything I own is paid for. I give about 20% to the Lord and am blessed beyond measure.
The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined. - Psalms 10:2
But... My blessings can become a curse when I begin to take pride in myself and boast about all I have. My riches can become a snare to me when I use them as a personal status tool and forget where I came from. Like the rich young ruler I can love the things that I own more than those of Christ Jesus. But... Really... I know that this is not all mine anyway, even though the titles tell me they are. I will leave this world as I came in it. Only the things I do for Christ Jesus will last.
With these words I also condemn those who have went overboard in the materialistic. I don't begrudge my fellow Christian $100,00 - $300,000 homes. But when they begin to build for themselves multi-million dollar mansions I begin to get off board. Especially with todays TV evangelist. In which I pray for these people that God would reveal to them that you don't have to own it to enjoy it.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
It is not about a lack of belief that God will bring prosperity that makes me cringe over the prosperity gospel - its the idea that riches and health are often used as a measuring stick of faith. Also, wealth puffs up the ego - the whole point of our sanctification is to throw off the ego.
Frankly, I have a bit of a radical stance towards private ownership, in general. I believe monks and nuns have the right idea.
Frankly, I have a bit of a radical stance towards private ownership, in general. I believe monks and nuns have the right idea.
Good post Aspen, I despise the teachings of the WOF and even more the practices.
I have heard many of the WOF icon brag and boast about how rich they are and then manipulate people into giving them money.
I have searched and have not found anywhere in the scriptures where anyone is encouraged to give to the rich. People are giving to these carnal preachers so that they can get rich too. Their god is their own belly.
Hollyrock you will do well to steer clear of such people and ignore what they say. Follow Jesus instead.
Selene
New Member
Hi Aspen,
I am discerning to be a nun. I'm taking a pre-vocational class to determine what God is actually calling me to. There's a lot of young girls in the pre-vocational class. You know, if God calls me to the convent, I honestly don't mind giving up those things. I know that God will take care of me.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Hi Aspen,
I am discerning to be a nun. I'm taking a pre-vocational class to determine what God is actually calling me to. There's a lot of young girls in the pre-vocational class. You know, if God calls me to the convent, I honestly don't mind giving up those things. I know that God will take care of me.
That is such awesome news! I will pray for your discernment.
