IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?
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If I did then I was mistaken....the wicked are taken
The main points I was making was that it was NOT the rapture and it was saying the unbelievers would be taken in judgement and believers into the salvation of the millennial kingdom
I think we discussed this particular item enough
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
...and it is called "Jacob's trouble ".
....(Israel's trouble)
(Just to add to your point)
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
In Hosea those replacement theology adherents rewrite it to say he never went after Gomer.
Gomer is a vivid unmistakable picture of the wayward wife ( the covenant Jew) repurchased.
Hosea obsessed with his wife ,and pursuing her ,INSPITE OF her wicked sin.
The jew grafted back in.
Depicted vividly in Rev
And romans
The temple is literally measured .....you cant say everything is imagery and symbolic .....for example the lake of fire is imagery then
I never said that....why are you appealing to statements I didnt make?
If others in the right division movement made statements like this I never heard them or If I did I wouldne follow their teaching anymore
During the tribulation they were not to go back to the sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood
The Gospel of Christ
Active Member
Exactly — we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.
So why do you talk like God’s promises failed, and the Church is Him stalling for time?
So now the Cross is Plan B, and the Temple gets a sequel? That’s blasphemy.
The Church — bought with His blood — is not a timeout until the Pharisees get their act together. That’s not the Gospel — it’s denial.
The Evangelicals say they're Christian, yet deny that Christ is the fulfillment? That’s not faith — that’s open rebellion.
You think the Son of God conquered death, disarmed principalities, sat down at the right hand of the Father —
only to wait around for a third temple with blood soaked floors and a red heifer?
You insult the Cross when you treat the Church like a detour.
You trample the blood of the Lamb when you preach two covenants.
You call yourself a Christian while denying that Christ is the fulfillment?
That’s not faith.
That’s apostasy wearing a Jesus T-shirt.
He said "It. Is. Finished."
Those were His words.
Not “To be continued.” Not “Pending Israel’s response.”
Finished.
The veil was torn.
The temple was judged.
The sacrifice was made once for all — not to be repeated, not to be paused, not to be overridden by some end-times real estate deal in the Middle East.
And yet they dare call it a postponement.
You teach that the Cross was a speed bump, that the resurrection launched a Plan B,
that the Bride of Christ is a temporary insert —
a parenthesis —
until the Sanhedrin gets their act together?
You exalt a political nation that crucified the Lord of glory —
and then turn around and say the Church must decrease so ethnic Israel can rise?
That’s not the Gospel.
That’s not prophecy.
That’s spiritual treason.
You twist the New Covenant into a waiting room.
You trample the blood of Christ beneath the footnotes of Scofield.
You deny the very One you claim to preach, while waving the flag of those who still reject Him.
He said “This cup is the new covenant in My blood.”
Not in U.N. borders.
Not in genealogies.
Not in a rebuilt temple that He Himself destroyed.
You preach like the Cross failed.
Like Pentecost wasn’t enough.
Like God’s Spirit in His people is somehow inferior to brick and stone in Jerusalem.
You grieve the Spirit of Truth.
You resurrect the shadows He died to fulfill.
You call yourself a Christian — but deny Christ at every turn.
Paul said:
“If righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.” — Galatians 2:21
And here you are —
preaching that righteousness will return through the law,
through animal sacrifice,
through a rebuilt temple,
through a national False Israel™ — a Rothschild & U.N. creation propped up by political Zionism and Christian ignorance.
Do you hear yourselves?
You are saying:
“Yeah, the blood of Jesus was powerful… but just wait until the Levitical priesthood comes back!”
You are shouting:
“Yeah, the veil was torn… but we’re gonna stitch it back together with red heifers and a third temple covered in blood!”
That’s not theology.
That’s blasphemy dipped in Scofield’s ink.
It’s Anti-Christ doctrine in a suit and tie, waving a dual-covenant chart.
You speak of the Church like a detour —
but she is the Bride.
The Body.
The very temple of the Holy Spirit.
Not a placeholder — the plan.
This isn’t a debate.
This is a warning.
Repent.
Turn from the lies of Dispensationalism.
Tear down your Zionist idols and return to the Gospel that saves.
The kingdom is not of this world.
The true Israel is not dirt or a flag.
And the Messiah will not return to a temple He already judged and left desolate.
He is coming again — but not to restart what He finished.
He is coming in glory to receive His Bride.
And if you’re not in it — you’re not ready.
It is clear here that he was speaking metaphorically because we are told so
BUT his body was physical
I take it literally but you are free to think what you want.....when the Bible says Israel we cant always say it really means Israel
Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes.
"the time of".
In the OT, God was dealing with the Jew, and Jesus the "GodMan" came down to the "house of Israel"........so, that is still GOD dealibg with the JEW.
After The Cross........God is now specifically dealing with the Gentiles......not by the Law, but by The Gospel of Grace.....and this TOO will end, once God resumes His dealing with the JEW.......as the Trib starts.
The "Gospel of the Grace of God" is for the "Time of the Gentiles".........and this "time" is going to end, and so will that Gospel of 'Faith" alone, as "Justification by faith".
I stand corrected.....good verse
You still cant say it means he is the new covenant
Israel today is not believing Israel........Israel has fallen as we learn from Paul that it is for Gentile salvation [Rom 11:11 KJV] 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Most of the Jewish Population in Israel is secular, not religious.
The Religious Jews, the "Black Coats".......are described by Paul, like this......tho in Paul's day, they didnt wear black coats....(thats another history lesson).
However the Religious Jews, in Paul's day, and the same you find in Israel today. .....
= "Are Ignorant of God's Righteousness", going about to establish their OWN".. = SELF Righteousness.
And that is the same as a : Legalist, who you find on forums.....trying to keep themselves saved....as they rant about "osas" and "losing salvation" and "keeping commandments"...........as their idea of Salvation is : SELF Righteousnes.........and that is to try to make yourself right with God, by ..........whatever you are trying to do to get there.. of yourself.
And this proves that this person is "IGNORANT of God's Righteousness"""", as they are going about to try to establish their OWN"... = by SELF EFFORT....
Reader........JESUS on THE CROSS........is "God's Gift of Righteousness".........and when you trust in HIM.......you are given "The Gift of Righteousness" by God.
The Gospel of Christ
Active Member
“The temple is measured in Revelation — it must be literal!”
Really?
The very next verse says it’s given to the Gentiles to trample, and then we’re plunged into prophecy where two witnesses breathe fire and beasts rise from the abyss.
Revelation is soaked in apocalyptic imagery.
So let’s ask:
Do you take the seven-headed dragon literally?
Do you believe Jesus literally has a sword sticking out of His mouth?
Is the lake of fire a volcanic lava pit somewhere on Earth?
Is the woman clothed with the sun actually orbiting the planet in a dress made of solar flares?
No — because you know better.
But when it comes to the temple, suddenly everything is wooden and literal again —
because your system needs it to be.
This isn’t biblical faith.
It’s Scofieldian programming —
selective literalism designed by Darby, Scofield, and their handlers at Oxford to hijack prophecy and rewire the Church into waiting for a sequel God never wrote.
“I never said Noah represented Heaven.”
Maybe you didn’t — but I wasn’t addressing just you.
This is about the system you defend.
If you're breaking ranks with others in the “right division” crowd, great.
But own that — don’t pretend these doctrines aren’t connected.
“They won’t return to sacrifices in the tribulation.”
That’s not what Dispensationalism teaches.
Scofield’s whole system is built on the idea that temple worship and Levitical sacrifices resume during the “tribulation.”
So what is that?
Worship?
Obedience?
You can’t offer blood sacrifices after Calvary and call it anything but blasphemy.
"Jesus was using a metaphor — but His body was physical.”
Correct — and that proves my point.
He was the temple.
He is the temple.
And when you preach that God will return to a physical building in Jerusalem, you deny what Christ fulfilled in Himself.
“But the New Covenant is with Israel and Judah — you can’t just say that means the Church!”
Actually… Paul does.
Word for word.
In Hebrews 8, he directly quotes Jeremiah 31 — the very prophecy you’re clinging to —
and applies it to the Body of Christ.
Not future.
Not postponed.
Fulfilled.
You think God is gearing up to write the Law on stone tablets again?
To drag us backwards into shadows He already fulfilled?
No — He’s writing it on hearts, not granite.
The Church isn’t hijacking Israel’s promises.
The Church is the Israel of God — born of the Spirit, not the flesh.
If you reject that, you’re not defending prophecy —
you’re denying the Gospel.
You think He’ll gather a nation by bloodline?
Or is He gathering a people by the Spirit?
If Jesus is the fulfillment, then the Church is Israel — not by flesh, but by faith.
“Jesus isn’t the covenant.”
Isaiah 42:6: “I will give You as a covenant to the people.”
That doesn’t symbolize a covenant.
That is the covenant.
He is the New Covenant.
It’s not a scroll. It’s not a location. It’s a Person — the Son of God.
“God is done with Israel — for now — and will resume dealing with them after the Church Age ends.”
You are preaching two gospels, two peoples, and two destinies.
And Paul calls that anathema. (Galatians 1:6–9)
God doesn’t “pause covenants.”
He fulfills them in Christ — or you’re still in your sins.
Romans 11 doesn’t say Israel will return through animal sacrifice and temple worship.
It says some branches were broken off… and can be grafted in again — into the same tree, which is Christ.
Not a separate tree.
Not a separate gospel.
Not a Levitical rerun.
Let me say it plain.
If you preach that the Church is a “parenthesis,”
If you say the Gospel of grace will “end,”
If you believe righteousness will come back through law and sacrifices,
If you deny that Christ is the fulfillment of every promise —
You are not defending the faith.
You are rejecting it.
You are trampling the Son of God underfoot
and insulting the Spirit of grace. (Hebrews 10:29)
Jesus isn’t coming to build what He already tore down — He’s coming to raise what He already redeemed.
He’s not coming back for rituals, relics, or temples soaked in animal blood —
He’s coming back for a radiant Church, washed in His own.
Really?
The very next verse says it’s given to the Gentiles to trample, and then we’re plunged into prophecy where two witnesses breathe fire and beasts rise from the abyss.
Revelation is soaked in apocalyptic imagery.
So let’s ask:
Do you take the seven-headed dragon literally?
Do you believe Jesus literally has a sword sticking out of His mouth?
Is the lake of fire a volcanic lava pit somewhere on Earth?
Is the woman clothed with the sun actually orbiting the planet in a dress made of solar flares?
No — because you know better.
But when it comes to the temple, suddenly everything is wooden and literal again —
because your system needs it to be.
This isn’t biblical faith.
It’s Scofieldian programming —
selective literalism designed by Darby, Scofield, and their handlers at Oxford to hijack prophecy and rewire the Church into waiting for a sequel God never wrote.
“I never said Noah represented Heaven.”
Maybe you didn’t — but I wasn’t addressing just you.
This is about the system you defend.
If you're breaking ranks with others in the “right division” crowd, great.
But own that — don’t pretend these doctrines aren’t connected.
“They won’t return to sacrifices in the tribulation.”
That’s not what Dispensationalism teaches.
Scofield’s whole system is built on the idea that temple worship and Levitical sacrifices resume during the “tribulation.”
So what is that?
Worship?
Obedience?
You can’t offer blood sacrifices after Calvary and call it anything but blasphemy.
"Jesus was using a metaphor — but His body was physical.”
Correct — and that proves my point.
He was the temple.
He is the temple.
And when you preach that God will return to a physical building in Jerusalem, you deny what Christ fulfilled in Himself.
“But the New Covenant is with Israel and Judah — you can’t just say that means the Church!”
Actually… Paul does.
Word for word.
In Hebrews 8, he directly quotes Jeremiah 31 — the very prophecy you’re clinging to —
and applies it to the Body of Christ.
Not future.
Not postponed.
Fulfilled.
You think God is gearing up to write the Law on stone tablets again?
To drag us backwards into shadows He already fulfilled?
No — He’s writing it on hearts, not granite.
The Church isn’t hijacking Israel’s promises.
The Church is the Israel of God — born of the Spirit, not the flesh.
If you reject that, you’re not defending prophecy —
you’re denying the Gospel.
You think He’ll gather a nation by bloodline?
Or is He gathering a people by the Spirit?
If Jesus is the fulfillment, then the Church is Israel — not by flesh, but by faith.
“Jesus isn’t the covenant.”
Isaiah 42:6: “I will give You as a covenant to the people.”
That doesn’t symbolize a covenant.
That is the covenant.
He is the New Covenant.
It’s not a scroll. It’s not a location. It’s a Person — the Son of God.
“God is done with Israel — for now — and will resume dealing with them after the Church Age ends.”
You are preaching two gospels, two peoples, and two destinies.
And Paul calls that anathema. (Galatians 1:6–9)
God doesn’t “pause covenants.”
He fulfills them in Christ — or you’re still in your sins.
Romans 11 doesn’t say Israel will return through animal sacrifice and temple worship.
It says some branches were broken off… and can be grafted in again — into the same tree, which is Christ.
Not a separate tree.
Not a separate gospel.
Not a Levitical rerun.
Let me say it plain.
If you preach that the Church is a “parenthesis,”
If you say the Gospel of grace will “end,”
If you believe righteousness will come back through law and sacrifices,
If you deny that Christ is the fulfillment of every promise —
You are not defending the faith.
You are rejecting it.
You are trampling the Son of God underfoot
and insulting the Spirit of grace. (Hebrews 10:29)
Jesus isn’t coming to build what He already tore down — He’s coming to raise what He already redeemed.
He’s not coming back for rituals, relics, or temples soaked in animal blood —
He’s coming back for a radiant Church, washed in His own.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Here are the "official figures":
- Secular:
Around 45% identify as secular, meaning they do not strictly adhere to Jewish religious laws.
- Traditional:
Around 33% identify as traditional, meaning they may observe some aspects of Judaism but not all.
- Religious/Orthodox:
Around 12% identify as religious or Orthodox, meaning they adhere more closely to Jewish religious laws and practices.
- Ultra-Orthodox:
Around 8-10% identify as ultra-Orthodox (Haredim), meaning they strictly adhere to Jewish religious laws and customs.
The Gospel of Christ
Active Member
Now here’s the other official figures — the one no one dares mention:
Nearly 100% of them are not ethnic Biblical Jews.
They are not descended from Jacob.
They are not Biblical Israelites.
They are not related to Abraham.
They are not Semitic.
And they are absolutely not “the chosen people of God.”
These are Khazars, Russians, and Eastern Europeans — a warlike, pagan people who were force-converted to Talmudic Judaism in 740 A.D., under pressure from King Bulan, not out of reverence for Moses or the prophets, but at the edge of King Bulan’s sword.
Ask their ancestors back then to walk to Israel in 740 A.D?
They wouldn’t even know which direction to start.
They’d probably wander out of the Caucasus and end up in Siberia.
And yet today’s Evangelicals wave the Star of Remphan over their churches, plaster Zionist symbols on their pulpits, and dare to call it “biblical prophecy.”
No — it’s not prophecy. It’s delusion.
A deception so deep, it trades the Gospel of Christ for the gospel of geopolitics, and bows to a flag that mocks the cross.
The Khazars didn’t embrace the faith of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
They didn’t fall to their knees in repentance before the God of Israel.
They were absorbed — forcefully — into a man-made religion,
not rooted in the Torah, but built on the Babylonian Talmud:
a blasphemous tome that's so anti-Christ,
it makes Roman paganism look tame by comparison.
The Torah in their system? It’s a prop. A backdrop. Not the foundation.
And yet modern Christians — especially Scofield-drunk Evangelicals — dare to call these people “God’s chosen”?
It’s not just wrong.
It’s theological madness.
It’s spiritual suicide.
And here’s the most twisted part…
They know.
The Rothschilds know.
The globalist elite know.
And they laugh —
As Christians bow before a Christ-rejecting state,
wave its flag like it’s holy,
bless a machine built on deception,
and celebrate the very Zionist engine that would crucify Christ again — and again — and again — if given the chance.
Satan basks in the sun of Dispensationalist ignorance.. He is well-fed from churches where Scofield’s lies are preached — for every ‘Israel-first’ sermon is a feast of betrayal, served warm from the pulpit.
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