Is the story of Adam & Eve a parable?

[Aunty Jane]

There is only one race, and it's the human race, or better known as mankind. The various ethnic groups gained their distinct features as a result of adapting to the various climatic conditions around the world. We see the same results in the animal kingdom, an Artic Fox adapted to it's climate by growing a long white fur coat to blend in to it's surroundings.

Man also adapted to his climate in the same way, an Eskimo's skin and complexion evolved to suit his cold climate, while a Sub Saharan African's body adapted by evolving features to suit his environment. It would only take a few generations for our features to adapt and evolve to suit our environment.

Studies have shown that this evolution happens very fast, a pig was taken off a farm and let lose in the wilderness with a tracking device fitted to it. The pig grew long hair to keep it warm and it grew large husks to enable it to dig for food in the hard soil. These changes were observed during the pigs lifetime, but you can imagine it's offspring, would be born with these features and others to help them cope in that environment and they would look completely different within a few generations.

Many people who identify as “believers” reject all reference to “adaptation”, as they believe it must be tied in with “evolution”…..but it is a scientifically proven fact, and nothing to do with the theory of evolution, which is not proven, nor can it be.

Adaptation is a programmed response in all living creatures to help them adapt to new climate or food supply…..a wonderful mechanism from the Creator.
Even Charles Darwin recognized that the tortoises and birds on the Galápagos Islands were still of their original species, but adapted to a different climate and food supply to those on the mainland. This gave rise to imagining that adaptation was much larger than it actually was.…overthinking it to a ridiculous degree, which eventually all but wiped out all belief in an intelligent Creator. Science became the new religion.

As a former city dweller, when I moved to a colder mountain climate, my dogs grew extra fur on their previously naked bellies to keep them warm. Adaptation only takes place within a species, presenting as varieties within a family “kind”.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Genesis ch. 1&2, reveals there were in the beginning two couples created. One in the garden of Eden and one outside the garden of Eden in the world. To the one inside the garden, GOD instructed them to the eat from the fruits within the garden, even to dress it and to keep it (Genesis 2:15&16).

Now, to the one outside of the garden, GOD instructed them, to be fruitful, and multiply. And replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over every thing in it (Genesis 1:28).

Significant key is, to the one created in the garden, outside the garden on earth, there were yet no every plant of the field. Neither were every herb of the field, yet before it grew even, moreover GOD had not caused it to rain upon the earth. Furthermore, there was not a man to till the ground on earth (Genesis 2:5).

But on the other hand, the one created outside the garden and on earth in the sixth day. Whereas, on the third day itself, already the earth brought forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and fruit tree yielding fruit.

Do you realize that if there was no Adam (one man) there would not be a Jesus (one man) who paid the redemption price for his sin, to free the whole human race from the the penalty of sin, which is the death that resulted from his disobedience, to all of us.

The fall of man is not placed at the feet of the devil, though he set the first humans up to tempt them to disobey God’s command….and it wasn’t laid at the feet of the woman either, because her death would not have resulted in death to the whole human race…..it was Adam who sent us into sin and death as our awful inheritance. (Rom 5:12)

If there was another race of humans outside of the garden, then they too would have lived forever, as God first intended for all humans to do…these would not have been subject to Adam’s sin, so they never would have sinned, or died.
There was no defect in the human race causing death, until Adam sinned and threw all of his children under its condemnation. Noah carried it on after the flood.

Adam and Eve only brought froth Cain and Abel when they were banished from the garden onto the earth, and multiplied. And another significant key is, Cain complains to GOD about other strangers already there on earth. Whom would have him slain since he is a fugitive and a vagabond.

Therefore GOD set a mark of protection on Cain, lest any find him should kill him. Since Cain got accepted among them, from them he found for himself a wife.

What we are missing in the Genesis accounts is a timeline….when God mentions events and people it is done from his heavenly perspective, where time means little. Adam and Eve bore three sons that are named….(Cain, Abel and Seth)….yet the genealogical lists tell us that they had “sons and daughters” in the hundreds of years that they survived after their fall….who knows how many and when they were born? It doesn’t say.

Gen 5:4-5…
”After becoming father to Seth, Adam lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died.”

The Bible does not tell us what age the brothers were when jealousy caused Cain to premeditate his brother’s murder.
The instructions given to Adam and Eve shortly after their creation, namely: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it” (Gen 1:28) tell us that Adam and his wife were the parents of all humankind.…..And since daughters were born to Adam and his wife, it is natural to assume that incest was part of God’s plan for the human race to multiply. There was no law against it and the earth had to be populated.
There is nothing to say that by the time of the murder, there were not daughters or even granddaughters in existence, whom Cain may have married.

To suggest that there was another race of humans outside the garden does not agree with God’s declaration that Eve had to “become the mother of everyone living”.

 

[Fred J]

Thanks. And from where or from whom did those other people come?

Likewise.

As testified, from the couple who were created outside the Garden of Eden, on the rest of the earth. Again significant key to ponder is, GOD's covenant with them was different, Be fruitful and multiply with children. And, fill the earth and bring it under their control, and have dominion over every thing in it.

Another significant key to ponder is, GOD's covenant with Adam and Eve was only to things inside of the garden. And there's no mention of the multiplication of children, but rather to dress the garden and keep it. Furthermore, Adam was formed before every plants of the field was in the earth, and before every herb of the field even grew.

But the couple created on the sixth day, whereas on the third day, the earth already brought forth grass. And the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after it's kind, whose seed is in itself were in place.

Later, outside of the garden created couple and their children, even Cain's children, including Adam and Eve's probably lived separately, apparently shared the earth.

Only born of Adam and Eve son, Seth, where his son, Enos, then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.. Therefore, came from them, Noah, and the great flood later killed everyone else on earth, exceot his wife, three sons and three daughter in laws.

To conclude, all kindred and tongue of all nation today originated from the three sons and daughter in laws of Noah and wife.

 

[Wrangler]

Your arguments clearly lack evidence or any depth of Bible knowledge

Yea, right! That's why you often have to write 12 paragraphs rationalizing the EXACT OPPOSITE of the what Bible says. God commanded offensive military action targeting women, children and babies. That reality just goes against your doctrine.

Not sure how we got on this topic in a thread about Adam and Eve. But there it is.

 

[Wrangler]

the reason why God could use his chosen nation as his executioners when the situation demanded it.

You and your deconstructionism unable to see the forest through the trees.

The 1st point is not WHY but WHAT, God commanded his chosen nation to militarily conquor.

 

[Wrangler]

Teaching the pagan nations not to mess with his people was done through their military victories, which at that time was appropriate….but in Christian times, no military action was necessary.

I guess that is where we disagree. You are confusing necessary with possible.

 

[Wrangler]

The land of Canaan was “promised” to Israel….they served an eviction notice on the squatters, which was authorized by the owner of the land…..they were evicted. It wasn’t a land grab based merely on conquest…but the fulfillment of a promise from a God who always carries out his promises. (Isa 55:11)

Strong rationalization there. It was totally a conquest, if ever there was a conquest.

 

[Wrangler]

The so called “offensive war” was sanctioned by their God….with Israel given authority as his representatives…..no other wars fought by man were sanctioned by God, except those in defence of that God-given land.

So called offensive war?

Your logic is flawed. The sanction you speak of is only in the Bible. Given that God is in control of all things, how do any wars begin other than by his sanction? You make it seem like it is prohibited unless noted otherwise (UNO). The opposite is the case. What wars in human history has God explicitly prohibited?

 

[Wrangler]

the Canaanite people were extremely depraved and God had every right to demand their destruction

Another Strawman argument. How depraved they were is irrelevant and no one is questioning the rights God has.

It's odd to me that you go to justification while skipping over the WHAT that is being justified; God commanded offensive, military conquest. Simple.

 

[Wrangler]

Just want to leave this here. Who were the first Christian soldiers? — Pew Pew HQ

 

[Aunty Jane]

Not sure how we got on this topic in a thread about Adam and Eve. But there it is.

Everything related to evil carried out by humans against other humans, is connected to Adam and Eve.

The 1st point is not WHY but WHAT, God commanded his chosen nation to militarily conquor.

And you seem fixated on the conquest, rather than the reason for it. It was a “one off” directive to clear away from the land that Jehovah promised to his own people, the depraved inhabitants who were not going to leave voluntarily. Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? Why did he send Jonah to tell the inhabitants of Nineveh that was he going to destroy them? They were not his people, nor was their land promised to Israel.…but their behavior was an abomination to him. The scriptural precedents are there but you choose to ignore them in favor of supporting your patriotism.

A 400 year old promise was fulfilled and all you can see is the conquest….good grief Wrangler, your arguments are extremely superficial, as are your justifications. No Scripture offered to you seems to get through that crust that you have built up against anything that argues with your position.

I guess that is where we disagree. You are confusing necessary with possible.

No Christian can take up weapons against an “enemy”…..period. How do you “love your enemies” with tanks, missiles and guns? (Matt 5:43-44) Seriously…how indoctrinated are you? Does nothing reach your heart?

Rom 12:17-21….
”Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.”
How can you double down in view of such Scripture? How do you override that?

Strong rationalization there. It was totally a conquest, if ever there was a conquest.

And there it is again…..it wasn’t about the conquest…..it was an eviction.….served by the owner of the land. He had new tenants who would move in and clean up their mess and make it something beautiful.
Do you not understand the difference?

The sanction you speak of is only in the Bible. Given that God is in control of all things, how do any wars begin other than by his sanction? You make it seem like it is prohibited unless noted otherwise (UNO). The opposite is the case.

God gave over control of this world to his adversary. (1 John 5:19) And when satan tempted Jesus by saying he would give over world rulership to him there and then…..in exchange for one act of worship….Jesus did not refute his clear statement….
”So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. 6 Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 If you, therefore, do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.” (Luke 4:5-7)

To fight for any worldly kingdom is to fight in the devil’s army……not Christ’s. His true disciples are “no part of the world” that is ruled by the devil. We have nothing to defend in this world apart from God’s Kingdom, which will “come” (ready or not) when it is the due time.
Only when Jesus has evicted the present inhabitants of this earth who carry on with their own agendas, whilst ignoring Christ’s clear commands, can God‘s “will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”

What wars in human history has God explicitly prohibited?

The ones that tempted “Christians” to abandon Christ’s teachings and take up arms against the “enemies” that Christ commanded them to “love”.

It's odd to me that you go to justification while skipping over the WHAT that is being justified; God commanded offensive, military conquest. Simple.

It’s simply delusional to imagine, in the face of all that has been presented to you, that you can still hold to your patriotic views. The important part of your statement is…”God commanded offensive, military conquest”…..
Who commands military conquest today?…world leaders do….who commands them? The ruler and god of this world. (2 Cor 4:3-4) He can “blind minds”…..as we see.
The wars fought in this world have nothing to do with those of us who are “no part” of it.

God permits a lot of things that he does not cause, in the accomplishment of his will.

Just want to leave this here. Who were the first Christian soldiers? — Pew Pew HQ

That is pure justification…like a lot of the sources you quote. You don’t seem to care who says what, as long as it agrees with your position….

Let’s try some accepted sources….
The early Christians refused to serve in the Roman army, in both the legions and auxilia, considering such service as wholly incompatible with the teachings of Christianity.
Justin Martyr, of the second century C.E., in his “Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew” (CX) wrote: “We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,—our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage.” (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I, p. 254)

In his treatise “The Chaplet, or De Corona” (XI), when discussing “whether warfare is proper at all for Christians,” Tertullian (c. 200 C.E.) argued from Scripture the unlawfulness even of a military life itself, concluding, “I banish from us the military life.”—The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1957, Vol. III, pp. 99, 100.

“A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [121-180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.” (The Rise of Christianity, by E. W. Barnes, 1947, p. 333)

So any acceptance of military service after the first century is the result of the foretold apostasy that would overtake Christianity and turn it into a farce. Today, it is a divided mess….making a mockery of Christ’s teachings and the Bible principles that we are supposed to live by.

History argues with you…..but that again is your choice.

 

[Aunty Jane]

To conclude, all kindred and tongue of all nation today originated from the three sons and grandaughters of Noah and wife.

Since the Bible dies not specifically state that there were two creations of humans…one inside the garden and one outside, I can only conclude that this is an assumption on the part of those who believe it….but then, assumption forms a great part of Christendom’s disunited beliefs.

The account says that Noah had three sons and that they had wives, so not Noah’s granddaughters.

Gen 6:17-22…God said….
”As for me, I am going to bring floodwaters upon the earth to destroy from under the heavens all flesh that has the breath of life. Everything on the earth will perish. 18 And I am establishing my covenant with you, and you must go into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you. 19 And bring into the ark two of every sort of living creature in order to preserve them alive with you, a male and a female; 20 of the flying creatures according to their kinds, the domestic animals according to their kinds, and all creeping animals of the ground according to their kinds, two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive. 21 For your part, you are to collect and take with you every kind of food to eat, to serve as food for you and for the animals.”

22 And Noah did according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.”

Have you never wondered why God did not just destroy the wicked humans and angels that were causing such violence and immorality at that time? He had the power to do that…so why did he give Noah such a difficult task when he could so easily have resolved it with a wave of his hand?

How would you answer?

 

[Christian Soldier]

Many people who identify as “believers” reject all reference to “adaptation”, as they believe it must be tied in with “evolution”…..but it is a scientifically proven fact, and nothing to do with the theory of evolution, which is not proven, nor can it be.

Adaptation is a programmed response in all living creatures to help them adapt to new climate or food supply…..a wonderful mechanism from the Creator.
Even Charles Darwin recognized that the tortoises and birds on the Galápagos Islands were still of their original species, but adapted to a different climate and food supply to those on the mainland. This gave rise to imagining that adaptation was much larger than it actually was.…overthinking it to a ridiculous degree, which eventually all but wiped out all belief in an intelligent Creator. Science became the new religion.

As a former city dweller, when I moved to a colder mountain climate, my dogs grew extra fur on their previously naked bellies to keep them warm. Adaptation only takes place within a species, presenting as varieties within a family “kind”.

The theory of evolution and the "Big Bang Theory", are unproven but they are the most accepted of all the theories which attempt to explain how everything came into existence and how life evolved.

These theories only work if yo first accept the (scientific method) used to test the theories.
If todays scientists had the opportunity to examine the world on the sixth day of creation, they would use the "scientific method" to determine the age of Adam to be in his early 30's. Then the would cut down a few large trees and count the rings and determine the age of the trees according to the number of rings. They would also use the scientific method to determine the age of the rocks and sediments in the rivers and every other created thing.

The scientific method would be OK, if it wasn't for the fact that God created everything in six days. God created everything in a fully formed mature state, but science demands that everything had to have evolved over a long period of time.

In the short video below, some professors were asked about evolution, and their response was very interesting.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The theory of evolution and the "Big Bang Theory", are unproven but they are the most accepted of all the theories which attempt to explain how everything came into existence and how life evolved.

These theories only work if yo first accept the (scientific method) used to test the theories.
If todays scientists had the opportunity to examine the world on the sixth day of creation, they would use the "scientific method" to determine the age of Adam to be in his early 30's. Then the would cut down a few large trees and count the rings and determine the age of the trees according to the number of rings. They would also use the scientific method to determine the age of the rocks and sediments in the rivers and every other created thing.

The scientific method would be OK, if it wasn't for the fact that God created everything in six days. God created everything in a fully formed mature state, but science demands that everything had to have evolved over a long period of time.

In the short video below, some professors were asked about evolution, and their response was very interesting.

I’ve seen that video before and it’s so interesting that when asked to prove their case for organic evolution….all they have to offer is adaptation, which is a programmed response within each Genesis “kind”…..the fish remained fish, the finches remained finches, and the “peppered moth”, so often used to prove evolution, merely showed that when trees upon which the moths depend for camouflage changed color, so did the moths….and when the situation was later reversed, they changed back to their original color. It was still a peppered moth adapting to it’s changed surroundings…it did not morph into another creature.

When science fiction becomes the new religion….people will believe what they want to believe….because scientist told them it was true……what they didn’t tell them is that they have not a shred of evidence for their beliefs…..in fact it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in an intelligent Creator…..creation itself testifies to his existence….

 

[Fred J]

Likewise.

As testified, from the couple who were created outside the Garden of Eden, on the rest of the earth. Again significant key to ponder is, GOD's covenant with them was different, Be fruitful and multiply with children. And, fill the earth and bring it under their control, and have dominion over every thing in it.

Another significant key to ponder is, GOD's covenant with Adam and Eve was only to things inside of the garden. And there's no mention of the multiplication of children, but rather to dress the garden and keep it. Furthermore, Adam was formed before every plants of the field was in the earth, and before every herb of the field even grew.

But the couple created on the sixth day, whereas on the third day, the earth already brought forth grass. And the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after it's kind, whose seed is in itself were in place.

Later, outside of the garden created couple and their children, even Cain's children, including Adam and Eve's probably lived separately, apparently shared the earth.

Only born of Adam and Eve son, Seth, where his son, Enos, then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.. Therefore, came from them, Noah, and the great flood later killed everyone else on earth, exceot his wife, three sons and three grandaughters.

To conclude, all kindred and tongue of all nation today originated from the three sons and grandaughters of Noah and wife.

Sorry readers, my bad.

Noah's three sons wives are Noah's daughter in laws.

Yet, the people of all nations are the descendant of Adam and Eve.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Sorry readers, my bad.

Noah's three sons wives are Noah's daughter in laws.

Yet, the people of all nations are the descendant of Adam and Eve.

Have you thoughts on the question I asked you?….

Have you never wondered why God did not just destroy the wicked humans and angels that were causing such violence and immorality at that time? He had the power to do that…so why did he give Noah such a difficult task when he could so easily have resolved it with a wave of his hand?

How would you answer?

What do the Scriptures offer by way of an answer to these questions?

 

[Christian Soldier]

I’ve seen that video before and it’s so interesting that when asked to prove their case for organic evolution….all they have to offer is adaptation, which is a programmed response within each Genesis “kind”…..the fish remained fish, the finches remained finches, and the “peppered moth”, so often used to prove evolution, merely showed that when trees upon which the moths depend for camouflage changed color, so did the moths….and when the situation was later reversed, they changed back to their original color. It was still a peppered moth adapting to it’s changed surroundings…it did not morph into another creature.

When science fiction becomes the new religion….people will believe what they want to believe….because scientist told them it was true……what they didn’t tell them is that they have not a shred of evidence for their beliefs…..in fact it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in an intelligent Creator…..creation itself testifies to his existence….

Most of my university educated friends testified that critical thinkers were not tolerated and they were seen as disruptive. You are told, this is how it is and you must embrace the what you are being taught as fact. You don't get to put the professor on trial, to justify the theory he's teaching.

Most of the sciences base everything on theories, which can't actually be proven as you rightly say. But they refuse to admit that their theories are based on "circular reasoning", so they are not open to any scrutiny. Schools are teaching children these theories as scientific fact, from a young age. And as they go through their education, the same theories are maintained through to university, so the student feel disempowered to even challenge the status quo.

Behind all of these theories, is a hidden agenda to discredit the bible and remove God from every educational institution. You can't successfully deceive a believer, into accepting the sciences which contradict creation and Gods order of things.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Behind all of these theories, is a hidden agenda to discredit the bible and remove God from every educational institution. You can't successfully deceive a believer, into accepting the sciences which contradict creation and Gods order of things.

Exactly…..it’s part of Satan’s last hurrah…..he knows he cannot win, and that his day is coming…but he will take as many down with him as he can deceive.
In every aspect of his rulership over mankind, he has tied his best to steer them away from God and substituted “Mother Nature” for the “Father Creator”….so, somehow, this “mother” is more appealing than the Father, because “she” demands nothing from them. They are giving credit to the wrong ‘parent’.

Satan’s entire system is designed to lead humans astray…..to enrich the powerful and greedy ones and to exploit the poor and disadvantaged. But to be spiritually rich, does not depend on material assets. A pure heart is worth more to God than any amount of wealth, fame or position.

If satan can’t get people to ditch the Creator altogether, he will present them with false religion, so that the spiritual nature with which we were created, will be satisfied with what is not the whole truth…and sometimes with what is not truth at all.

Only those who genuinely seek to “know God” (John 17:3) and to obey the teachings of his son, will survive the onslaught of opposition to the truth that is engulfing the world……now in its death throes….”Jehovah’s day” is not far away…..we will all know then, if we have passed the test….by what we accept as truth In our hearts.

 

[face2face]

Is Adam & Eve an allegory for the beginning of all men and women? Is it possible that God placed humans throughout the world and that the story of the garden is a parable? Are we supposed to believe that white, black, Indian & Asians all evolved from just two humans, Adam & Eve?

The danger with this belief is not evolution its the distraction from understanding what is being taught.

Adam & Eve

Hey @Keiw (& @Aunty Jane ) In the past we have briefly discussed the JW teaching on A&E, and I wondered how it was that your denomination believes they cannot be saved. Is this a traditional view, or do you have evidence to support this belief. F2F

www.christianityboard.com

Why the confidence?

"Adam called his wife's name Eve" Genesis 3:20 Now Eve signifies "Life" or "Living." On what basis could Adam give this name to Eve? @TheHC @Keiw @Aunty Jane @Mark51 What happened in Genesis 3 which gave Adam the confidence to name Eve - Life or Living? Is there an element of hope...

www.christianityboard.com

These threads explore some of the lessons being taught from the first pair and while being directed toward JW's, there is plenty in there to teach the Christian

F2F

 

[face2face]

Exactly…..it’s part of Satan’s last hurrah…..he knows he cannot win,

Verse?

and that his day is coming…but he will take as many down with him as he can deceive.

Verse?

In every aspect of his rulership over mankind, he has tied his best to steer them away from God and substituted “Mother Nature” for the “Father Creator”….so, somehow, this “mother” is more appealing than the Father, because “she” demands nothing from them. They are giving credit to the wrong ‘parent’.

Wow, you must have evidence for this?

Satan’s entire system is designed to lead humans astray

System??? What system?

…..to enrich the powerful and greedy ones and to exploit the poor and disadvantaged. But to be spiritually rich, does not depend on material assets. A pure heart is worth more to God than any amount of wealth, fame or position.

You assign this to a fallen angel?

If satan can’t get people to ditch the Creator altogether, he will present them with false religion, so that the spiritual nature with which we were created, will be satisfied with what is not the whole truth…and sometimes with what is not truth at all.

Only those who genuinely seek to “know God” (John 17:3) and to obey the teachings of his son, will survive the onslaught of opposition to the truth that is engulfing the world……now in its death throes….”Jehovah’s day” is not far away…..we will all know then, if we have passed the test….by what we accept as truth In our hearts.

The Word's teaching of such a day is far from what you infer in this post.

F2F