Is the travailing woman which gives birth to a man-child in Revelation 12...

[guysmith]

Is the travailing woman which gives birth to a man-child in
Revelation 12 the same travailing woman that gives birth to a man-child in
Isaiah 66:7-13?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Good question. May be, or may be the kingdom of GOD born on one day at Pentecost when the disciples were baptized into one body by the holy spirit. I tend to think Isaiah is the latter and Revelation is referring to something else. Jury's still out on this one.

 

[John_8:32]

Not the same...

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

This passage is tame stamped at the birth of Christ. The woman is Israel.

Isa 66...

Isa 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
Isa 66:6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Isa 66:10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
Isa 66:11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
Isa 66:12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
Isa 66:13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
Isa 66:14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

The timeframe is the second coming of Christ.

 

[guysmith]

According to Isaiah 66, the woman in Revelation 12 is Mount Zion in Jerusalem which is to be "protected and fed" for the 3 1/2 years of the GT.

 

[JosyWales]

I believe the woman to be a real person. She is not symbolic in any way.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

According to Isaiah 66, the woman in Revelation 12 is Mount Zion in Jerusalem which is to be "protected and fed" for the 3 1/2 years of the GT.

The Woman is our mother heavenly Jerusalem and yes Isaiah 66:7 is the same holy nation that will be called the children of God born in one day as they are caught up to heaven and the WOMB to heavenly Jerusalem shall be shut, just as God shut the door to the ark, so shall the door to our ark be shut by God. Our ark is Christ who is the ark of our covenant. For he is the Word
Gal 4:26-28
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
KJV

And she is about to birth the son's of God that the world is awaiting to manifest who will be caught up to God's throne
Gal 4:26-28
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
KJV
Rom 8:19-23
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
KJV


Rev 12:1-9
12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

 

[John_8:32]

According to Isaiah 66, the woman in Revelation 12 is Mount Zion in Jerusalem which is to be "protected and fed" for the 3 1/2 years of the GT.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Who is this woman? Here is the answer...


Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?


Verse 6...

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

This is the church hiding from persecution for 1260 years. Remember the inquisition? Take a look at some of the peoples that were persecuted, Albigensis, Lollards, Waldenses, Petro Brusians etc.

Now after the war in heaven, we are at the end time...

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Notice this phrase "time, and times and half a time"? It is different than the 1260 days. It is used only two other places, Dan 7 and Dan 12. In Dan 7 it is used in conjunction with the end time resurrection of the Roman empire with ten kings...

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

In Dan 12 it is used to determine the length of the Great Tribulation...

Dan 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Does the State of Israel have the testimony of Jesus Christ? or does the church?

This is about a literal place of safety on the earth for the church at the time of the end...

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Not all go there...


Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Now some attribute this passage to the return of Christ, it doesn't fit. If you were on the roof of your house and Christ was returning, would you say "Wait Lord, while I climb down, go into my house and grab my stuff"? Would you think about grabbing a change of underwear and a toothbrush at the reutrn of Christ? I am pretty sure I wouldn't, but if I were preparing to flee into a place of safety in the desert I might very well wish to take a change of undies and a toothbrush.

Remember Lot's wife? They were fleeing to their place of safety, Zoar. Lot's wife turned around and looked back longingly at HER city. She wanted what she had left. We cannot be so, we must be willing to leave all.

Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Remember the part about being accounted worthy to escape all these things? Remember the part about the Philadelphia era of the church escaping the Great Tribulation?

Some will go, some will not.


Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

 

[guysmith]

Hello John_8:32,

This is about a literal place of safety on the earth for the church at the time of the end...

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Not all go there...

Remember the part about being accounted worthy to escape all these things? Remember the part about the Philadelphia era of the church escaping the Great Tribulation?

Some will go, some will not.

Now some attribute this passage to the return of Christ, it doesn't fit. If you were on the roof of your house and Christ was returning, would you say "Wait Lord, while I climb down, go into my house and grab my stuff"? Would you think about grabbing a change of underwear and a toothbrush at the reutrn of Christ? I am pretty sure I wouldn't, but if I were preparing to flee into a place of safety in the desert I might very well wish to take a change of undies and a toothbrush.

The biq question: Where is this place-of-safety?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hello John_8:32,


The biq question: Where is this place-of-safety?

In Christ.

 

[veteran]

Is the travailing woman which gives birth to a man-child in
Revelation 12 the same travailing woman that gives birth to a man-child in
Isaiah 66:7-13?

Possibly. It's mainly about the city of Jerusalem though in association with God's people...

Isa 66:6-12
6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
(KJV)


Isa.66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

The reason why v.8 says who ever heard such a thing is because of that statement in v.7. With natural child birth, the travail in labor pains happens first, and then the bringing forth of the child. That verse is saying the opposite idea about Jerusalem.

When did Jerusalem bring forth children prior to being in labor pangs? Remember Jesus said God is able to raise up children of stones to Abraham if need be (Matt.3:9). He is talking about His elect and believing Gentiles in that later section of verses.

So if that has a relation to our Lord Jesus Christ, it would have to be about God's ordaining of His Son and The Gospel prior to Jerusalem going into a desolation, which began after Solomon's reign. Pretty deep analogy, because back in Isaiah 54 there's a connection with the idea here, about Blessed are the barren who never gave suck, for more are the children of the desolate than the married wife. That's a metaphor in the opposite sense also, since usually the married wife has more children than the barren woman who isn't married.

Bottom line? Those Isaiah 66 verses are talking about God's Plan of Salvation for Jerusalem, and those who remain faithful to Him through His Son. Since many of the children of Israel have been rebellious, they have been cast out and Jerusalem left in a desolate state spiritually. But that is to change when many of those events in Isaiah 65-66 occur with Christ's future coming.

 

[tgwprophet]

My opinion to this is; the woman is an actual woman and the child is the re-birth of Jesus. Since time did not create God, but rather God created time... God has dominion over time. Once Jesus is re-born of the flesh he ascends to Heaven ( the same place the Two Witnesses ascend to ). Then Jesus as an adult comes back in the flesh at Armageddon, in the flesh but with all the power of Jesus and takes position as ruler with a rod of Iron. Here is the "idea" - That there is much more to the capabilities or significance of being in the "flesh" (physical form) than we currently understand. The earth is physical the planets are physical the stars, universes and more are physical and they allow us the opportunity to comprehend a significance of a physical form that we have yet to grasp. What if we consider being in the spiritual form as being more confining than being in the physical form? - That is what I attempt to convey here. Certainly the vastness of space and all the planets must have a greater reasoning than the limits of a mere 7,000 year time span of necessity.

When i consider the amount of people ending in Hell then the lake of fire verses the amount of people that obtain Heaven, the amount of people in Hell is greater than the amount in Heaven... unless... this is just the beginning and the physical form has the ability to reproduce and this is the mere first step in purification of man's seed. I can easily see that it is possible no marriages happen yet re-production still occurs after Armageddon. Then even more purification of man's seed happening then repeat. And all this continuing until the end of forever meaning - never-ending. By this method the amount of people in the eternal lake of fire will be vastly outdone by the amount of people (for lack of better expression) obtaining Heaven. Is it possible the people ending in the lake of fire are redeemed and we have not been told that for our sake? For surely if we were to have been told that those going to Hell then the lake of fire were reborn to go through a physical life all over and continuing until one obtains redemption, less people would try to find God and more would live for self gratification only (knowing they would be given chance after chance after chance until they accepted Jesus and are redeemed). When we were a child we were taught as a child...etc...

The physical life has allot of valid reasoning concerning Love of God that does not happen in the spiritual form because in the spiritual form one knows God exists. And so the purification of which I post is one of True Love of God and Jesus. This true love for God is a continually growing accomplishment by reproduction in the physical realm and then purification and re-production, and is never ending in growth. Does this mean Satan could be used over and over... I think the possibility does indeed exist. Otherwise we would have to consider that this is all there is and our numbers are all God has to work with for eternity - would not faith be dead then?, We are the end of True Love because everyone born henceforth (after Armageddon) will know God exists instead of needing faith

On the 9th day God created... Consider that God has not stopped creating, that on the 9th day he created life on other planets just as God created life on earth. Now consider that unlike us, those on other planets did not rebel - that God did not need to restart life like God did by flooding the earth. Could this make us the "first" yet be behind in technology? How about life on other planets that chose not to eat of the tree of knowledge. This could mean we are the first, but we are not in the lead. Please remember I began this post with "My opinion."

 

[veteran]

Terry said:

My opinion to this is; the woman is an actual woman and the child is the re-birth of Jesus. Since time did not create God, but rather God created time... God has dominion over time. Once Jesus is re-born of the flesh he ascends to Heaven ( the same place the Two Witnesses ascend to ). Then Jesus as an adult comes back in the flesh at Armageddon, in the flesh but with all the power of Jesus and takes position as ruler with a rod of Iron. Here is the "idea" - That there is much more to the capabilities or significance of being in the "flesh" (physical form) than we currently understand. The earth is physical the planets are physical the stars, universes and more are physical and they allow us the opportunity to comprehend a significance of a physical form that we have yet to grasp. What if we consider being in the spiritual form as being more confining than being in the physical form? - That is what I attempt to convey here. Certainly the vastness of space and all the planets must have a greater reasoning than the limits of a mere 7,000 year time span of necessity.

What? Christ "re-born" in the flesh at Armageddon? There is NO such idea written anywhere in God's Word! That kind of idea just goes to show how vain the Jew's doctrines are, oh how they love their flesh! News release: our flesh is going to perish, and this present world with it.