Being baptized into the body of Christ, immersed in water, is something we agree on. Scripture says by doing so, we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, so, to me that means it's the indwelling of the Holy Ghost within us, as opposed to the spirit falling on individuals such as it did in Acts 2 on 11 apostles which is a different thing. That is associated with the manifestation of the Spirit wherein the gifts of the Spirit are manifested, like other tongues, prophecy, etc. These don't happen legitimately today, andvthe only one which is prevalent is tongues which ends up being chaotic, incoherent babbling and not other tongues as the bible states; other known languages that others present can understand
IS THERE ONLY WATER BAPTISM?
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were in agreement the spirit does not fall on us ..but indwells in us ..i dont knock tongues due to it being listed in the bible. to many put more emphases on speaking in tongues , than being doers of the word
Chihuahua
Member
It comes down to Gnostic Christianity which is common. They believe, as Gnosticism teaches, that all material things are evil and God does not work through them. Many Christians deny water baptisms is anything more than a symbol, communion is not the Body of Christ as He said, but is a symbol. Marriage is of the flesh, also material, and can be ended while both spouses live.
[Mar 16:16 KJV] "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." It says believe AND BE baptized, being water baptized is a separate action, whereas Spirit baptism occurs upon belief and isnt something we do.......... [Eph 1:13 KJV] "In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
[Mar 1:4 KJV] "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."
[Act 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."............water baptism was to wash away the sins of Israel to be cleansed to be priests in the kingdom
Where in scripture does it say it's symbolic?
Taken
Well-Known Member
show me where water removes sin john the baptist baptism was external ,Christ is eternal .its the Blood of Jesus
externally Christ was baptized did he have sin?
symbolic as in communion wine represents his Blood the wafer represents his Body . its the same thing in baptism we go into the water grave raised up symbolically resurrected. baptism is a affirmation of our faith . it also follows salvation .the moment we are saved we are justified then placed into the Body of Christ and then made Holy positional . then we become practical we put forth the effort to be holy/sanctified . which is a on going process till we make heaven. then we are made hole /holy no longer a work in progress everything in the o.t especially at the tabernacle was external temporary. it had to be repeated Christ ultimate sacrifice was once and for all it is finished . paid in full
I gave you these verses, dont they say they forgave sin. God accepted water baptism the same way he did for animal sacrifices, based on their faith and the blood of Christ
[Mar 1:4 KJV] "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."
[Act 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."............water baptism was to wash away the sins of Israel to be cleansed to be priests in the kingdom
It was to fulfill righteousness. I also think he was baptized to identify with sinful Israel and take away their sins
What scripture says this?
This is religious jargon
tell ya what your peddling apostolic doctrine.. romans 5 therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
romans 3
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
And by the law almost all things are purged with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. Hebrews 9:22
the only religion jargon is you who cant move past the book of acts you do know what justification its the very act of forgiven the moment we get saved just as if we never sinned .justified == declared righteous by the blood by grace by faith NOT WATER BAPTISM we are gentiles who have been grafted into the vine .. until you get out of acts i will no longer correspond with you. its like beating a dead horse to get up and move
From the OP:
Worldwide, churches of all shapes and sizes teach people to be baptized in water. It's hard to get two of them to agree on exactly how it's supposed to be done,
whether you baptize in the name of Jesus, or in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost;
whether you sprinkle or pour water on people, or dunk them in the water;
whether it's done in a pool inside a church, or in a river;
who does it;
what the person doing it needs to believe in order for it to be valid;
whether you tip the person backward, or forward, when putting them under the water;
how old the person needs to be before you can baptize them;
what to do if the person backslides after being baptized;
whether the Holy Spirit comes into a person before, during, or after the water baptism...
The list goes on and on. There have been more divisions in the church over water baptism than over any other teaching in the Holy Bible or out of it.
Paul is the first person to have seen through this confusion to the truth behind it.
People were arguing over who had baptized them. Paul had baptized only a small handful of people, but soon realized that Jesus never meant for us to baptize people in water:
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chl-oe that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (1 Cor. 1:11-17).
Here's another oft-missed clue:
And [Jesus] said unto [his disciples], Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized [in the Spirit, NOT water baptized] shall be saved; but he that believeth not [where is "baptized"?] shall be damned [IOW, belief results in spiritual baptism unto salvation; unbelief results in damnation (water baptism is not repeated because it is now irrelevant)]...And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word [NOT with water baptisms] with signs following. Amen. (Mark 16:15-16, 20).
The understanding of baptism has been messed up and distorted from antiquity. The result has been not unlike the parable of the sower, where two different seeds were sown but only one produced fruit. And such rituals of men are easy to fake. There is something far more satisfying than being dunked in water. God says that he wants obedience more than sacrifice (1 Sa. 15:22)
Water baptism was a Jewish ritual, a Hebrew practice. There is nothing uniquely Christian about water baptism. The disciples did baptize in water, but Jesus did not do it (John 4:2). Water baptism is inconsistent with the Spirit of everything else that Jesus taught. Most of Jesus' enemies were circumcised; most were water baptized!
...I [John] indeed baptize you [the multitude] with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire (Luke 3:16).
What of Jesus' baptism? John protested:
But John forbade [Jesus], saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? (Mat. 3:14).
Jesus was the perfect spotless Lamb of God; he didn't need his sins washed away. Rather, Jesus asked John to accommodate him, because it made sense for them "to fulfill all righteousness". So John went ahead and baptized Jesus. The end of the old, and the start of the new.
So what does "to fulfill all righteousness" mean?
Well, Jesus was born into a Jewish family; circumcised at 8 days of age; taken to the temple at 12 years of age; raised in all the disciplines of the Jewish religion. And now he does this one final Jewish ritual, marking the end of his Jewishness and the start of a deeper revelation.
Jesus came to replace, fulfill, render useless, the law of Moses:
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it (Luke 16:16). Out with the old, in with the new.
There is only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism via the Holy Ghost!
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body... (1 Cor. 12:13).
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Mat. 28:18-20).
What are the action words in that passage (v. 19)?
There are only two action words = go and preach. When the disciples obey the commands to go and to preach, then the result is that people get baptized and taught. The disciples are NOT told to water baptize anyone. Rather, baptizing is what takes place EVERY TIME someone receives the truth of what is preached.
So baptism is never a one-off. Baptizing happens to someone EVERY TIME he receives the truth.
actions of men = go and preach;
results of Holy Spirit = taught and baptized
* preaching the gospel = baptizing *
Also, in that cited passage above (Mat. 28:19), it is WE who make yet another ASSUMPTION; we "just add water" i.e. we ASSUME that the "baptism" spoken of is of water!!! (...and the usage by Greek-o-philes of corrupt Greek lex-icons furthers that assumption.)
Another assumption was that speaking in tongues was of the Holy Spirit whereas the reality is that the teachings of Jesus are of the Holy Spirit.
Other false assumptions: Torah worship; Moses worship; Paul worship.
* truth (teachings of Jesus) vs. false assumptions (e.g. water baptism) *
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh [e.g. water baptism and other traditions of men] profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life (John 6:63).
What Jesus taught is his true Holy Spirit. You cannot know the Holy Spirit of Jesus without having the words he spoke. People know Jesus' name and ancestry, but they don't know his teachings or beliefs. So they do not and cannot have his Spirit. But if I preach, I am covering/baptizing/immersing you in his Spirit. People receive the Holy Spirit every time they believe something Jesus said.
The Holy Spirit is not visible, as water or tongues is. Jesus told Nicodemus: the wind blows wherever; you hear it but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it's going. You can't put the wind (or the Spirit) in a box (or a font).
Or, what is the water in John 3:5? Again, context is everything:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
The emphasis is that one must be born again albeit spiritually - as opposed to the "normal" earthly method of birth that we of the flesh all experience i.e. via the birth canal and its water. This confuses Nic, as he can relate only to a physical birthing and its water - and we only do that once.
In vs. 5 & 6, Jesus tells Nic that for those of the flesh (i.e. people), it takes BOTH "births" (the natural and the spiritual) to "see the kingdom of God."
To totally upset a majority here, know that this mitigates AGAINST ANY requirement for a "water baptism." We have entire denominations built upon the shifting sand of some physical "water baptism" as a requirement for whatever. THEY ARE WRONG.
The first believers got it slightly wrong - water baptism is a trick, a test, built into the gospel.
Worldwide, churches of all shapes and sizes teach people to be baptized in water. It's hard to get two of them to agree on exactly how it's supposed to be done,
whether you baptize in the name of Jesus, or in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost;
whether you sprinkle or pour water on people, or dunk them in the water;
whether it's done in a pool inside a church, or in a river;
who does it;
what the person doing it needs to believe in order for it to be valid;
whether you tip the person backward, or forward, when putting them under the water;
how old the person needs to be before you can baptize them;
what to do if the person backslides after being baptized;
whether the Holy Spirit comes into a person before, during, or after the water baptism...
The list goes on and on. There have been more divisions in the church over water baptism than over any other teaching in the Holy Bible or out of it.
Paul is the first person to have seen through this confusion to the truth behind it.
People were arguing over who had baptized them. Paul had baptized only a small handful of people, but soon realized that Jesus never meant for us to baptize people in water:
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chl-oe that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (1 Cor. 1:11-17).
Here's another oft-missed clue:
And [Jesus] said unto [his disciples], Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized [in the Spirit, NOT water baptized] shall be saved; but he that believeth not [where is "baptized"?] shall be damned [IOW, belief results in spiritual baptism unto salvation; unbelief results in damnation (water baptism is not repeated because it is now irrelevant)]...And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word [NOT with water baptisms] with signs following. Amen. (Mark 16:15-16, 20).
The understanding of baptism has been messed up and distorted from antiquity. The result has been not unlike the parable of the sower, where two different seeds were sown but only one produced fruit. And such rituals of men are easy to fake. There is something far more satisfying than being dunked in water. God says that he wants obedience more than sacrifice (1 Sa. 15:22)
Water baptism was a Jewish ritual, a Hebrew practice. There is nothing uniquely Christian about water baptism. The disciples did baptize in water, but Jesus did not do it (John 4:2). Water baptism is inconsistent with the Spirit of everything else that Jesus taught. Most of Jesus' enemies were circumcised; most were water baptized!
...I [John] indeed baptize you [the multitude] with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire (Luke 3:16).
What of Jesus' baptism? John protested:
But John forbade [Jesus], saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? (Mat. 3:14).
Jesus was the perfect spotless Lamb of God; he didn't need his sins washed away. Rather, Jesus asked John to accommodate him, because it made sense for them "to fulfill all righteousness". So John went ahead and baptized Jesus. The end of the old, and the start of the new.
So what does "to fulfill all righteousness" mean?
Well, Jesus was born into a Jewish family; circumcised at 8 days of age; taken to the temple at 12 years of age; raised in all the disciplines of the Jewish religion. And now he does this one final Jewish ritual, marking the end of his Jewishness and the start of a deeper revelation.
Jesus came to replace, fulfill, render useless, the law of Moses:
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it (Luke 16:16). Out with the old, in with the new.
There is only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism via the Holy Ghost!
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body... (1 Cor. 12:13).
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Mat. 28:18-20).
What are the action words in that passage (v. 19)?
There are only two action words = go and preach. When the disciples obey the commands to go and to preach, then the result is that people get baptized and taught. The disciples are NOT told to water baptize anyone. Rather, baptizing is what takes place EVERY TIME someone receives the truth of what is preached.
So baptism is never a one-off. Baptizing happens to someone EVERY TIME he receives the truth.
actions of men = go and preach;
results of Holy Spirit = taught and baptized
* preaching the gospel = baptizing *
Also, in that cited passage above (Mat. 28:19), it is WE who make yet another ASSUMPTION; we "just add water" i.e. we ASSUME that the "baptism" spoken of is of water!!! (...and the usage by Greek-o-philes of corrupt Greek lex-icons furthers that assumption.)
Another assumption was that speaking in tongues was of the Holy Spirit whereas the reality is that the teachings of Jesus are of the Holy Spirit.
Other false assumptions: Torah worship; Moses worship; Paul worship.
* truth (teachings of Jesus) vs. false assumptions (e.g. water baptism) *
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh [e.g. water baptism and other traditions of men] profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life (John 6:63).
What Jesus taught is his true Holy Spirit. You cannot know the Holy Spirit of Jesus without having the words he spoke. People know Jesus' name and ancestry, but they don't know his teachings or beliefs. So they do not and cannot have his Spirit. But if I preach, I am covering/baptizing/immersing you in his Spirit. People receive the Holy Spirit every time they believe something Jesus said.
The Holy Spirit is not visible, as water or tongues is. Jesus told Nicodemus: the wind blows wherever; you hear it but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it's going. You can't put the wind (or the Spirit) in a box (or a font).
Or, what is the water in John 3:5? Again, context is everything:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
The emphasis is that one must be born again albeit spiritually - as opposed to the "normal" earthly method of birth that we of the flesh all experience i.e. via the birth canal and its water. This confuses Nic, as he can relate only to a physical birthing and its water - and we only do that once.
In vs. 5 & 6, Jesus tells Nic that for those of the flesh (i.e. people), it takes BOTH "births" (the natural and the spiritual) to "see the kingdom of God."
To totally upset a majority here, know that this mitigates AGAINST ANY requirement for a "water baptism." We have entire denominations built upon the shifting sand of some physical "water baptism" as a requirement for whatever. THEY ARE WRONG.
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You said baptism never removed sin. Scripture said it did. I am not saying we should be water baptized because we are cleansed by the blood of Christ. The blood of Christ was the reason God could remit sin by water baptism. Water baptism serves no purpose for us in this dispensation. Water baptism is not found in Paul's epistles to be done by us and pictured nothing in regard to our salvation.
Please show me the passage where Paul gives instructions on baptism. Are infants to be baptizes? is it immersion or sprinkling? Who can do it? what has to be said?
i dont do infant baptism its immersion who can do it? in most cases a minister called of God ..but i reckon it dont matter .. i follow jesus instructions in the name of the Father Son Holy Ghost ie the great commission 9 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: i follow jesus INSTRUCTION ACTUALLY Romans 6 teaches us on baptism . to be honest with you i baptize the way i feel led. curious are you a pastor / preacher
Bear with me, I didnt ask how you do it, not every church does water baptisms the same. I asked if we must/should be water baptized we should have full instructions on how to do it, so where in scripture do we have those instructions
9 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: i follow jesus INSTRUCTION. once again baptism is not essential for salvation. justification has NOTHING to do with water baptism. the only baptism that comes in is by the spirit at the new birth.. the whosoever shall/ will its freely given freely received . what can make me whole again nothing but the Blood of Jesus. in exodus for the death angle to pass over. the BLOOD was applied to the door post.. not water .... know then this is as far as i care to with you.. all i can say is if you think water baptism saves. then by all means jump in the water
Does it? What's to say the two are not simultaneous? What to say that one doesn't take place without the other?
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Taking passages to the exclusion of others doesn't prove the point. How is one saved if their sins are not forgiven?
feel free to jump in ephesians 2:8-10 or so saved by grace through faith.. no water mentioned baptism follows
