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Ishmael: Did he go to Heaven or hell?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Warrior, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. Warrior

    Warrior New Member

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    I read the bible last night and saw that Ishmael was to be blessed, and had twelve children, but his descendants followed the wrong way of islam. did this come from Ishmael? Or did he repent before he died? I'm not sure I completely understand this story with Ishmael and Abraham either. Someone help a brother out :D
  2. Arnie Manitoba

    Arnie Manitoba New Member

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    My quick opinion (without re-reading Ishmael in the bible) is that when God said Ishmael would be blessed ..... I think it refers to the many decendants (and large nations) that would be in his family line .... I also recall God saying their lives would costantly be at odds with each other ..... eg: brother against brother .... I think we can still see that today within the Arab and Islam culture.

    When is the last time you have seen a genuinely happy and peacefull Muslim ?? There are some .... but rare.

    I do not have a Personal dislike for any of the decendants of Ishmael .... it is more like they have a continuous dislike for me (because of my Christianity) .... and a continuous dislike of anything Israel or Jewish.

    I also confess I am puzzled why God "created" this rebellious line of decendants from Abraham ... I have a hard time finding a good purpose.

    As far as whether Ishmael will be in Heaven or Hell .... hard for me to even guess at that one .... same as wondering how many Old Testament Israelites will there be in Heaven ? ....

    We are given some hints when Jesus died He then went to where the dead were and maybe there was a type of judgement at that time (for Old Testament people) .... remember that many of the OT "Saints" were ressurected at that time also ... and they walked around Israel etc.
  3. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    I can't really find a straight-shooting verse to answer this, as I'm not that much of a Bible scholar :p, but basically, we don't know. It's not our place to say whether someone went to hell or heaven. Basically, it's up to God. None of our business. :D
  4. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    United States
    What about Moby Dick?

    :D Okay that was a fizzle.

    In all seriousness, though, I'm not sure. This is one of those things that I wouldn't waste too much time on. I believe many things get corrupted when humans get their little hands on things - which is what ultimately happened with Ishmael's line. I can't speculate as to where that corruption happened.

    As to your question Arnie - I think God is apt to let us stew in our muck sometimes. Ishmael was the result of people not trusting in God. I think God blessed him as a lesson. His progeny continues to be a thorn in the side of Israelites (and many Christians). Note how Ishamel went on to have 12 sons (Genesis 25:16), for example. It's a parallel to Israel; don't think there is not a purpose in that.

    The important thing is that neither Ishmael or his descendants are exempt from the offer of grace through what Jesus did on the cross. Could Ishmael have been saved? Absolutely yes. Do we (currently) know the answer? No.
  5. Arnie Manitoba

    Arnie Manitoba New Member

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    I had pretty much concluded the same thing as well (Highlighted above)


    God partly uses us (Gentile) Christians as a lesson for Israel as well.

    eg: Israel were the Chosen people .... they had the law and knowlege of God .... yet many rejected Jesus as Messiah ..... so God opened the door to let the Gentiles in ....

    In other words the Christian Gentiles were not the Chosen people .... they did not have the law and the prophets .... yet they recognized Jesus as Messiah .... God uses the Gentiles to "shame" the unbeleiving Israelites. ..... Something like that .... I think it is in Romans. Been a while since I read it.

    Come to think of it .... many of the early Church "gentile beleivers" would probably have been decendants of Ishmael ...
  6. kensapp

    kensapp New Member

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    No one knows as no one really knows where anyone truly goes after they die
  7. whitestone

    whitestone New Member

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    The entire thing was of God. It was so that we would choose the Blessing of the New Covenant when it came. Most of the Jews didn't, and are allegorically the "edomites/ishmaelites" who have no inheritance.

    Here is some of where it is revealed by the Holy Spirit;

    (Gal 4:21)

    Tell me, ye who are willing to be under law, the law do ye not hear?

    (Gal 4:22)

    for it hath been written, that Abraham had two sons, one by the maid-servant, and one by the free-woman,

    (Gal 4:23)

    but he who is of the maid-servant, according to flesh hath been, and he who is of the free-woman, through the promise;

    (Gal 4:24)

    which things are allegorized, for these are the two covenants: one, indeed, from mount Sinai, to servitude bringing forth, which is Hagar;

    (Gal 4:25)

    for this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and doth correspond to the Jerusalem that now is , and is in servitude with her children,

    (Gal 4:26)

    and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is mother of us all,

    (Gal 4:27)

    for it hath been written, `Rejoice, O barren, who art not bearing; break forth and cry, thou who art not travailing, because many are the children of the desolate--more than of her having the husband.'

    (Gal 4:28)

    And we, brethren, as Isaac, are children of promise,

    (Gal 4:29)

    but as then he who was born according to the flesh did persecute him according to the spirit, so also now;

    (Gal 4:30)

    but what saith the Writing? `Cast forth the maid-servant and her son, for the son of the maid-servant may not be heir with the son of the free-woman;'

    (Gal 4:31)

    then, brethren, we are not a maid-servant's children, but the free-woman's.