It’s All In The Desire

[Netchaplain]

What is a “sinner”? Though all sin (Rom 3:23), a sinner is not merely one who sins, for Scripture always differentiates between sinners and the righteous. Humility reminds us that none are “just” within themselves (Ecc 7:20), because it is “not I but Christ” where righteousness dwells in the redeemed. The separation-point between the sin in the sinner, and the sin in the righteous lies in the fact that the righteous do not desire sin, which cannot be said of one who is unconcerned about sinning.

The “glory” of Christ in us is this, O ye “household of faith,”—which is the “household of God,” that sin is in us—but we are not in it (Rom 8:9): and “those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God” (Rom 8:8 NLT). The “desire” God works in us (Phil 2:13) contains the fullness of what and who we are in the Lord Jesus, resulting in our ominous hatred for the old man and its “members” (Col 3:5, 9).

Though I still sin with my old nature (Rom 7:17, 20) it is not my desire with the new nature (Rom 7:15); and it is in this light of “unwilling” desire (Heb 10:26) to sin where God sees us in Christ, which is always as a “captive” against the will in the soul of the new nature (Rom 7:23). It is in this inability of sin to cause us to desire sin that manifests our freedom from its “reign” and “domination” (Rom 6:12, 14). Much like the boy in school who was told to read standing up but said out loud, “I will stand but inside I’m still sitting!”
-NC

 

[skypair]

To me, a sinner is one who has a "sin nature" in his/her heart. That is, one who has committed sin and not repented. If you are saved, you do not have a sin nature any more 1Jn 3:9. Christ lives in you, Col 1:27. If you sin, it is not because of your heart.

This is why I kind of don't like people saying, "I am a sinner saved by grace." No, if you are saved, you are a Christian saved by grace.

skypair

 

[Netchaplain]

To me, a sinner is one who has a "sin nature" in his/her heart. That is, one who has committed sin and not repented. If you are saved, you do not have a sin nature any more 1Jn 3:9.

Hi Sky, and always appreciate your replies! It's true if it were so, that we would no longer sin if the sin nature (old man) were eradicated at rebirth, but nowhere is it written that the"old man" is dead but rather "crucified" (Rom 6:6), which makes us dead (Rom 3:3; Col 6:2) to its guilt and dominion (Rom 6:12, 14), but not from its presence (Rom 7:21), nor from its influence (Rom 7:17, 20).

I believer the reason why Scripture never relates the sinner as one who is after God is because He will never again regard us according to our sin nature (Rom 8:9 - "flesh"). This is not the physical flesh but the sin nature of mankind. Definition IV: "the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God."
(Genesis 1:1 (KJV))

God's blessings to you and blessings to God!

 

[skypair]

It's true if it were so, that we would no longer sin if the sin nature (old man) were eradicated at rebirth, but nowhere is it written that the"old man" is dead but rather "crucified" (Rom 6:6), which makes us dead (Rom 3:3; Col 6:2) to its guilt and dominion (Rom 6:12, 14), but not from its presence (Rom 7:21), nor from its influence (Rom 7:17, 20).

Thanks, net chaplain. The old man is symbolically "buried" in baptism and this is the representation of what happens in our soul. But it is not so with our spirit -- our mind, emotions, and will. We are the same man in our spirit though we are not the same man in our souls.

I believer the reason why Scripture never relates the sinner as one who is after God is because He will never again regard us according to our sin nature (Rom 8:9 - "flesh"). This is not the physical flesh but the sin nature of mankind. Definition IV: "the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God."
(Genesis 1:1 (KJV))

Right. When we were sinners, our soul was dead but out spirit and body alive. When we are saved, our soul is alive but our spirit and flesh are "dead." They can no longer condemn the soul (Ro 8:1-2). In this latter situation, our spirit (mind) is a "battle ground" between the soul and the flesh. (Ro 7:20-25)

skypair

 

[Netchaplain]

The old man is symbolically "buried" in baptism and this is the representation of what happens in our soul. But it is not so with our spirit -- our mind, emotions, and will. We are the same man in our spirit though we are not the same man in our souls.

Thank you too SP for our Word-fellowship! I think our understanding differs concerning the "soul." I understand it to be the rational, thinking and deciding element of the spirit (person) which is where accountability is incurred, similar to the brain being the same for the body.

To me the "old man" is the nature of the soul and spirit and that the nature determines the quality of the being and is what controls the being. Thus, I believe God uses His Spirit to control those reborn (Gal 5:17) via the "new man" (new nature) because the new nature is of Christ's "divine nature" (Col 3:10); and the new nature is the life of Christ which "is our life" (Col 3:4). Hence the life we receive at rebirth is not the Spirit's life but Christ's life--by the Spirit.

When we were sinners, our soul was dead but our spirit and body alive. When we are saved, our soul is alive but our spirit and flesh are "dead." They can no longer condemn the soul (Ro 8:1-2). In this latter situation, our spirit (mind) is a "battle ground" between the soul and the flesh. (Ro 7:20-25)

I agree concerning the dichotomy of the Christian ("battle" - Rom 7:14-25), and it's encouraging to know that this battle is not to determine our salvation but only our walk in it! The saved "live in the Spirit" and He progressively guides and teaches us to "walk in the Spirit" (Gal 5:25), which requires time in the Word of God for the Spirit to teach us.

God be blessed!!!