Jacob/Israel

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
16,095
3,422
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Those who can't even take the time to read those 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17 Chapters still want to make up stories that are not written in God's Word, knowing that the Biblically illiterate can't tell the difference. What shame those are going to face when Lord Jesus returns.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
16,095
3,422
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Also what is being hid by many here, is the fact that Genesis 49:10 is specific that the throne of David, the royal sceptre, would not leave the tribe of Judah UNTIL... Shiloh comes. So they can't even read simple English properly because of allowing some stupid agenda of man to get in the way!

Gen 49:1-2
49 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, "Gather yourselves together,
that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
2 Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father."
KJV


That Genesis 49 Chapter starts off with Jacob telling his twelve sons to gather around so he could tell them what would befall them in "the last days". Apostles Peter and James gave examples of the "last days" involving the time all the way up to Christ's future return (James 5:3; 2 Peter 3:3). So that 'last days' phrase isn't only about the time of Christ's 1st coming like men's agendas wrongly assume. And the fact that Jacob is revealing these prophecies for the scattered ten tribes in those "last days" also shows men's traditions are wrong with thinking that the ten tribes are truly gone and no more, especially since God showed in Amos 9 and Ezekiel 37 that He is going to join the ten tribes back with Judah in the land of promise to their fathers in final.


Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
KJV

Note carefully what the above verse is declaring. That "sceptre" is about a wand given a king or queen at their coronation. It represents royal rule.

Notice the verse says that "sceptre" won't leave the tribe of Judah's possession UNTIL... "Shiloh come". Shiloh is put for our Lord Jesus Christ. And then the kicker with the last part which even those posting in this thread INTENTIONALLY LEFT OUT...

"... and unto him shall the gathering of the people be."

You tell me brethren in Christ, at Lord Jesus' 1st coming, did anyone go to Heaven with Him when He ascended to The Father to sit upon the right hand of The Father's throne, where Jesus still is today, expecting until His enemies are made His footstool?

!NOPE! That gathering... of the people to Christ, His faithful saints, has NOT happened yet today, because it is about Christ's future literal PHYSICAL COMING to gather His faithful Church! And that is only about His future 2nd coming!

This means that royal sceptre, AND as lawgiver regarding Judah (Jews), is STILL HERE ON EARTH TODAY, SOMEWHERE...

We know David's throne is no longer in the holy land in Jerusalem, and I am speaking specifically about king David's earthly throne, because that is the "sceptre" that this is about. Moreover, in the Book of Samuel God promised David that one of his seed would always sit upon his throne until all generations. That includes today's generation ON EARTH folks. Lord Jesus even revealed this in the Matthew 19:28 verse telling us WHEN He will inherit David's throne...

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me,
in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
KJV

When Apostle Peter asked Lord Jesus what they, the Apostles, shall have for forsaking all and instead following Jesus, the above was Lord Jesus' answer. Jesus promised them that they each would sit upon a throne judging over the twelve tribes of Israel. Has that happened yet today brethren??

NOPE! of course not. The nation of Israel is still to this day broken in half as "two nations" like God's Word reveals, and won't be put back together until Shiloh (Jesus) returns, and then to Him shall the gathering of the people be (believing Israelites and believing Gentiles, Christ's Church).

Thus our Lord Jesus Christ is NOT sitting upon David's throne in Heaven right now. He is sitting on the right hand of The Father's throne in Heaven right now. He has yet come to inherit David's throne which is promised to Him, for it is a LITERAL, PHYSICAL THRONE, not some philosophical mumbo-jumbo that the seminaries made up just because they don't yet understand about David's throne because God has yet to show them. But God has shown those of His servants that do... listen to Him in His Word of Truth instead of man.
 
Last edited:

Fred J

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2023
1,681
371
83
58
W.P.
Faith
Christian
Country
Malaysia
Genesis 49:10 refers the coming Messiah, Shiloh. So, Judah remained up until Jesus. Afterwards, only Jesus.
Readers,

The verse is not referring to Judah who'll remain until the Messiah, please read carefully thank you.

But rather, the 'sceptre' held by kings of Israel down the line from David and linage of Judah, and 'a lawgiver' from between one's feet, shall remain until the Messiah.

Judah remain as Judah since the Messiah in the flesh is the Son of man cum Son of David and from the linage of Judah.

Besides also at the same time, in the spirit He is the Son of GOD and God the Son.

He's the firstfruit of resurrection and in the same 'flesh' and spirit He ascended to Heaven and remain forever. Amen.

Rest of Judah are among the 144,000 who shall be taken up at the 'first resurrection.'

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
 
Last edited:

Fred J

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2023
1,681
371
83
58
W.P.
Faith
Christian
Country
Malaysia
On the other hand Biblically, GOD's birthright and promise made with Ephraim and Manasseh are, status of distinct tribes equivalent to the sons of Jacob.

As to also promising them, massive nemerical growth and possession of a bigger portion in the promised land, and apparently wealthier than the other sons.

Also we're to take note that Ephraim tribe is not among the 12 tribes of Israel, probably omitted due to their led rebellion and stop worshipping GOD in the Nothern kingdom.

Even king Jeroboam of Ephraim established pagan worship centers with golden calves in Bethel and Dan, preventing other tribes from travelling to Jerusalem to worship GOD.

In the case of Joseph tribe being among the 12 tribes of Israel, while Manasseh his own tribe and since Ephraim's omitted, isn't it odd?

i believe those in Ephraim tribe who did not follow pagan worship all along and who've repented, became the tribe of Joseph.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
 

Rockerduck

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2022
4,375
3,486
113
71
Marietta, Georgia.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Readers,

The verse is not referring to Judah who'll remain until the Messiah, please read carefully thank you.

But rather, the 'sceptre' held by kings of Israel down the line from David and linage of Judah, and 'a lawgiver' from between one's feet, shall remain until the Messiah.

Judah remain as Judah since the Messiah in the flesh is the Son of man cum Son of David and from the linage of Judah.

Besides also at the same time, in the spirit He is the Son of GOD and God the Son.

He's the firstfruit of resurrection and in the same 'flesh' and spirit He ascended to Heaven and remain forever. Amen.

Rest of Judah are among the 144,000 who shall be taken up at the 'first resurrection.'

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
Gen. 49:10 -CJB -
The scepter will not pass from Y’hudah,
nor the ruler’s staff from between his legs,
until he comes to whom [obedience] belongs;
and it is He whom the peoples will obey.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
11,014
7,352
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Brethren,

Peace be with you in Jesus name and may GOD the FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ bless all of you.

This thought came to my mind, no doubt Jacob loved his 12 sons, why was Joseph and Benjamin special to him.

Joseph's death news from the sons, Jacob cried bitterly for a period of time and the sons were not able to console him.

Benjamin, Jacob refused to depart from him since he was called to be present in Egypt to free one of his brother held captive by Joseph.

And Jacob was afraid he might lose Benjamin too, sending him with the same brothers he lost Joseph in the first place.

So what do think, why Jacob is so attached with Joseph and Benjamin, besides he also loved his other sons?

For one Jacob presented Joseph alone with a new attire, since perhaps Joseph was sincere in everything while the brothers were mischievous and grief the father often.

Thank you
Joseph and Benjamin were the sons of Jacob's first love, Rachel. His favortism toward Joseph was simply bad parenting. [Joseph's] mother being dead, his affections clung the more closely to the father, and Jacob's heart was bound up in this child of his old age. He "loved Joseph more than all his children." But even this affection was to become a cause of trouble and sorrow. Jacob unwisely manifested his preference for Joseph, and this excited the jealousy of his other sons.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
16,095
3,422
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Those who have... gone through their Old Testament history have a similtude of what I'm saying about David's throne being an 'earthly' throne that is established unto all generations on earth, and given to Christ Jesus in the "regeneration" of Matthew 19:28 like He showed.

It is those who pump themselves up trying to act... like they've been through all their Bible in study when they have not, and that is why they fall in the trap of Satan's host who make up all kinds of fabrications to steer folks away from what the simplicity of the actual written Bible Scripture. What ire's me is their play-acting like they are studied when they are Biblically illiterate when it comes to many prophecies written in the Old Testament Books.

This matter of David's earthly throne is definitely one of them, because what was Lucifer's original rebellion in the old world about? How did he fall? He wanted to be GOD, and upon GOD's Throne which it was Lucifer's job originally to guard as a 'cherub that covereth' per God's parable of Ezekiel 28 with God using the "king of Tyrus" as a type for the devil. (the word "Tyrus" by the way means 'rock'. But in that parable's case it means the little 'rock', Satan. He wants to be "our Rock" which is our Heavenly Father and His Son; see Deut.32:29-31).

I'm going to reveal a 'mystery' here for those with eyes to see, and ears to hear. It is about the 'overturns' of David's throne on earth after God moved it by using Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, to destroy Jerusalem and Solomon's temple, and took the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" captive to Babylon. God ordained His prophet Jeremiah, who was guardian of the "king's daughters", meaning king Zedekiah of the house of David, the last king of Judah at Jerusalem in the days of Nebuchadnezzar.

God is speaking the following specifically about Jerusalem, and about the last king of Judah at Jerusalem, king Zedekiah, and that He was going to end Zedekiah's reign, which He did using Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. But notice what God then says about that "diadem" (crown) what would happen to it after that...

Ezek 21:25-27
25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

26 Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.

The removing of the crown ("diadem") was about the ending the reign at Jerusalem of Zedekiah king of Judah of the house of David by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon.

But notice that verse then says, "... exalt him that is low,...". That means another upon the earth somewhere else was to wear that "diadem" after it left Jerusalem. And we know that "diadem" was not there in Jerusalem at the time of Christ's 1st coming either, so He definitely did not inherit it. Instead, king Herod, an Idumean of the seed of Esau sat upon a throne in Jerusalem at Jesus' 1st coming, as Herod was a puppet king appointed by the Romans who had conquered Judea. No one of the tribe of Judah of the house of David has sat upon David's throne in Jerusalem since king Zedekiah in Jeremiah's day.

Who then is this, "... exalt him that is low..."? And where is that? I know, most of you brethren want... to say, well that's Lord Jesus Who is to inherit David's throne. He's in Heaven, so that must be where God moved David's throne, right? No, wrong. And the following verses will reveal why... and will show that one that is low to be exalted was actually a continuation... of David's throne on earth, but not in Jerusalem.

27
I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
KJV

God then says He would 'overturn' that "diadem" three times, and give to the One Who's right it is, i.e. Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lexham English Bible translation is about the only English translation that didn't add the idea that throne would be no more after the third overturn. It just says things won't change, suggesting no more overturns until Jesus comes Who's right that throne of David is.

Ezek 21:27-28
27 A ruin, a ruin, a ruin I will make it! Also this has not ever happened; it will remain until the coming of the one to whom the judgment belongs and I have given it to him.'

(from The Lexham English Bible, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2010, 2012 Logos Bible Software.)

Those three overturns cannot... mean that happened in Heaven with Lord Jesus upon that throne. One should easily know that by this above prophecy. After David's throne ended in Jerusalem with king Zedekiah being the last king of the house of David there, it would go elsewhere on earth, and there it would be overturned TWO more times! The first "overturn" was with Zedekiah. And the fact those overturns are associated with "... exalt him that is low..." also cannot be pointing to Lord Jesus in Heaven.

There is one of the house of David sitting upon that throne still to this day. I will not reveal where. All the overturns have been completed, and it's just a matter of Lord Jesus returning to sit upon it as promised Him. So that also reveals just how close to the end of this world we actually are with Jesus' coming.
 

Fred J

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2023
1,681
371
83
58
W.P.
Faith
Christian
Country
Malaysia
Joseph and Benjamin were the sons of Jacob's first love, Rachel. His favortism toward Joseph was simply bad parenting. [Joseph's] mother being dead, his affections clung the more closely to the father, and Jacob's heart was bound up in this child of his old age. He "loved Joseph more than all his children." But even this affection was to become a cause of trouble and sorrow. Jacob unwisely manifested his preference for Joseph, and this excited the jealousy of his other sons.
i agree, this is just one part of the story but in context to Jacob life there was a lot of struggle, and GOD allowed it.

From the beginning GOD disliked Esau but not Isaac who loved him more than Jacob.

GOD's birthright and promise is with Jacob and not Esau, but to our carnal sight we discern it wrongly since being wise in our own sight.

In our sight we discern that Jacob stole the birthright of Esau, but on the other hand, Esau gave it willingly because his craving for Jacob's delicious broth.

And Esau realized it later he was tricked, and Jacob had to fllee to his uncle Laban, and there the craftiness of Laban cheated Jacob all for his own gain.

On the other hand, both sisters were competing even using concubines, who can give Jacob more children so he would love one of them more than the other.

When Jacob and his family came out of Laban, Rachel stole her father's worshiped idols without Jacob's knowledge and hid it all along, even covered and sat on it while Laban was going through all their belongings.

Jacob in order to convience Laban who couldn't find it and knowing his family didn't take it, he cursed the one who took it, and for Laban to leave them alone. (and the curse took Rachael's life)

After all that, Jacob was able to make peace with his brother Esau, and lived with his family peacefully and never blamed, dispiced nor shun anyone from his family.

He brought up all the sons well, just that besides young Joseph and very young Benjamin at home, the other grown up sons had mischievous and dodgy character.

Whether at home behind the father or in his absence or in the field, apparently reported by young Joseph, and which grieved the father.

Often Joseph was sent to check on them and as usuual he reported accordingly, which also created the resentment of the grown up brothers.

i believe it was natural that the father pampered the still young and innocent children than the grown ups who suppose to man up and work for the family in discipline and maturity.

Since soon also they'll be handed out in marriage according to tradition, and the other things of Joseph from GOD only fueld up the ungodly immaturity and undisciplined nature of the brothers.

Bad parenting?

Not much so, it's about traditions of those days and about GOD and parents fearing children, doing the right thing by age, end of the day pleases the LORD GOD of Israel/Jacob.

To GOD, Jacob was among the significant figure compared to all of the sons, where some became 'redeeming instruments' of HIS to keep the linage alive and going as the 12 tribes of Israel/Jacob.

Because when GOD appeared to Moses, HE revealed HIMSELF as the GOD of his fathers, the GOD of Abraham, the GOD of Isaac, and the GOD of Jacob, ................. (Exodus3:15/Matthew22:32)

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brakelite

Fred J

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2023
1,681
371
83
58
W.P.
Faith
Christian
Country
Malaysia
Matthew 22:32

Brethren,

As above, HE is the GOD of the living, therefore Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are part of the 24 elders already in Heaven.

For they are all living in Heaven and are like angels worshiping GOD, but the dead in Christ are asleep until the first resurrection happens.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ