Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well maybe you are not the person I thought, bye, bye, don't bother responding as I won't see it, you're on ignore.

LOL.

You prefer your pride over what the scripture says.

This is coming from someone who doesn't accept the clear words of Jesus where He told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise that day He died (Luke 23:43).

Oh, and there has been plenty of insults coming from you.

Insults directed towards you? No.

 

[Scott Downey]

Hmmm, man banished from Paradise... why then would Christ tell the thief on the cross that day he would be with Christ in Paradise?
Christ did return to God the Father until 3 days later after His resurrection, recall I just posted that from John 20

And Christ was not glorified when He died, that came later, and only then was Christ given all authority as in for the people of God to move into Heaven with Christ.

 

[Scott Downey]

Really?

So paradise was in the Garden of Eden at one stage? Where did it go from there? When did it arrive in heaven?

It was brought into Heaven with Christ when HE ascended back to God, which ascension only happened after He was raised up from the DEAD by God.

YOU DO NOT acknowledge Romans 6

9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him

Death had dominion over Christ until God raised Him from the dead, as Peter said also in Acts 2

WPM, I wont get off my high horse because I am not on one. You need to get off yours and believe the scriptures.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hmmm, man banished from Paradise... why then would Christ tell the thief on the cross that day he would be with Christ in Paradise?
Christ did return to God the Father until 3 days later after His resurrection, recall I just posted that from John 20

And Christ was not glorified when He died, that came later, and only then was Christ given all authority as in for the people of God to move into Heaven with Christ.

You continue to not differentiate between His body and spirit and that's why you're not understanding what happened.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It was brought into Heaven with Christ when HE ascended back to God, which ascension only happened after He was raised up from the DEAD by God.

Paradise IS heaven (the third heaven - 2 Cor 12:2-4). It wasn't brought to heaven.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It was brought into Heaven with Christ when HE ascended back to God, which ascension only happened after He was raised up from the DEAD by God.

YOU DO NOT acknowledge Romans 6

9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him

Death had dominion over Christ until God raised Him from the dead, as Peter said also in Acts 2

WPM, I wont get off my high horse because I am not on one. You need to get off yours and believe the scriptures.

BODILY death had dominion over His BODY. Not His spirit.

 

[Scott Downey]

G3857 - paradeisos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G3857 - παράδεισος parádeisos, par-ad'-i-sos; of Oriental origin (compare ); a park, i.e. (specially), an Eden (place of future happiness, "paradise"):—paradise.

www.blueletterbible.org

Interesting that some early church fathers also thought Paradise to not be a part of heaven, item number 4
However, that seems a stretch to me as Eden was planted on the earth, afaik. Course not been there to see it.

The KJV translates Strong's G3857 in the following manner: paradise (3x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
2. a garden, pleasure ground
   1. grove, park
3. the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
4. the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
5. heaven

 

[WPM]

It was brought into Heaven with Christ when HE ascended back to God, which ascension only happened after He was raised up from the DEAD by God.

YOU DO NOT acknowledge Romans 6

9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him

Death had dominion over Christ until God raised Him from the dead, as Peter said also in Acts 2

WPM, I wont get off my high horse because I am not on one. You need to get off yours and believe the scriptures.

Please give us Scripture that teaches that "paradise was brought into Heaven with Christ when HE ascended back to God"?

 

[WPM]

It was brought into Heaven with Christ when HE ascended back to God, which ascension only happened after He was raised up from the DEAD by God.

YOU DO NOT acknowledge Romans 6

9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him

Death had dominion over Christ until God raised Him from the dead, as Peter said also in Acts 2

WPM, I wont get off my high horse because I am not on one. You need to get off yours and believe the scriptures.

When did Paradise move from the Garden of Eden to Abraham's bosom? Give us Scripture for that.

 

[WPM]

Interesting that some early church fathers also thought Paradise to not be a part of heaven, item number 4
However, that seems a stretch to me as Eden was planted on the earth, afaik. Course not been there to see it.

Which early Church fathers are you talking about? The Chiliasts?

 

[Scott Downey]

Which early Church fathers are you talking about? The Chiliasts?

I don't know, I just mentioned it from what Blue Letter Bible said about that.

 

[Scott Downey]

Please give us Scripture that teaches that "paradise was brought into Heaven with Christ when HE ascended back to God"?

It is only by inference from other scriptures that it happened.
Because Christ tells the thief this day you shall be with ME in paradise.

But you do not acknowledge anything other than Christ went into Heaven at His death, bringing the thief with Him.
And there is no scripture that tells us that either.

You think Abraham's bosom was an ugly old dusty place? OR was it a paradise of good things for the people of God who had to wait for Christ to come get them and bring them to God in heaven.

I can tell you are resisting and see after a while further discussion is a waste of time over this.
So yeah, I am done, I laid out all the proof the Jesus did not go back to God until after God raised Him up, which you do not believe any of.

You accuse me of a private interpretation, while not noticing you also have one.

 

[WPM]

It is only by inference from other scriptures that it happened.
Because Christ tells the thief this day you shall be with ME in paradise.

But you do not acknowledge anything other than Christ went into Heaven at His death, bringing the thief with Him.
And there is no scripture that tells us that either.

You think Abraham's bosom was an ugly old dusty place? OR was it a paradise of good things for the people of God who had to wait for Christ to come get them and bring them to God in heaven.

I can tell you are resisting and see after a while further discussion is a waste of time over this.
So yeah, I am done, I laid out all the proof the Jesus did not go back to God until after God raised Him up, which you do not believe any of.

You accuse me of a private interpretation, while not noticing you also have one.

Lol. So, when it is shown that you have no Scripture you run and pout. You need to see: you are building your theology on your own opinions. That is private interpretation. That is not a smart way to operate.

 

[Scott Downey]

Before Christ was given all authority and power as in had the keys of hell and death, not a single OT saint, the people of faith in the OC, received the promise of God, as in going to be with Him having eternal life in heaven with God the Father.
They just were not allowed to live in heaven, and that includes the thief on the cross, even though he gave a good testimony of faith.

Not Elijah, not Enoch either.
Hebrews 11
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

The NC is one with better promises.
And the OC made no one perfect.
The NC makes us to have perfected spirits.
Our citizenship in the NC is in Heaven with God.
Until our resurrection we are there with perfected spirits.
NOT a SINGLE OT SAINT was made perfect apart from us of the New Covenant.
They had to wait in the place of the righteous dead, Abraham's Bosom, paradise, etc... to receive the promise of eternal life.
And the result is gloriously better for everyone.

Here is proof of this perfection in our NC, which some people likely would object about,

The Glorious Company​

18 For you have not come [g]to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and [h]darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned [i]or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

 

[WPM]

I don't know, I just mentioned it from what Blue Letter Bible said about that.

More hearsay then?

 

[WPM]

You think Abraham's bosom was an ugly old dusty place?

Who said that?

OR was it a paradise of good things for the people of God who had to wait for Christ to come get them and bring them to God in heaven.

No, it was a waiting place until Christ paid man's penalty in full.

I can tell you are resisting and see after a while further discussion is a waste of time over this.
So yeah, I am done, I laid out all the proof the Jesus did not go back to God until after God raised Him up, which you do not believe any of.

You accuse me of a private interpretation, while not noticing you also have one.

You admitted you had no Scripture. It is all "inference." That sums up your argument here.

 

[WPM]

Before Christ was given all authority and power as in had the keys of hell and death, not a single OT saint, the people of faith in the OC, received the promise of God, as in going to be with Him having eternal life in heaven with God the Father.
They just were not allowed to live in heaven, and that includes the thief on the cross, even though he gave a good testimony of faith.

Not Elijah, not Enoch either.
Hebrews 11
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

The NC is one with better promises.
And the OC made no one perfect.
The NC makes us to have perfected spirits.
Our citizenship in the NC is in Heaven with God.
Until our resurrection we are there with perfected spirits.
NOT a SINGLE OT SAINT was made perfect apart from us of the New Covenant.
They had to wait in the place of the righteous dead, Abraham's Bosom, paradise, etc... to receive the promise of eternal life.
And the result is gloriously better for everyone.

Here is proof of this perfection in our NC, which some people likely would object about,

The Glorious Company​

18 For you have not come [g]to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and [h]darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned [i]or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Please give us Scripture that teaches that "paradise was brought into Heaven with Christ when HE ascended back to God"?

When did Paradise move from the Garden of Eden to Abraham's bosom? Give us Scripture for that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lol. So, when it is shown that you have no Scripture you run and pout. You need to see: you are building your theology on your own opinions. That is private interpretation. That is not a smart way to operate.

Agree. No evidence has been shown to suggest that Abraham's bosom is/was paradise. Meanwhile, we have scripture which says that the spirit of the thief on the cross went to paradise with Jesus the day they died (Luke 23:43) and that paradise is the third heaven (2 Cor 12:2-4). So, it's easy to see which view is based on scripture and which is not.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

More hearsay then?

He will surely take offense at this as he falsely thinks that "hearsay" is the same as heresy.

 

[WPM]

He will surely take offense at this as he falsely thinks that "hearsay" is the same as heresy.

Exactly.