The throne of David was never in the heavens. It is and was always an earthly throne
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false
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You believe this shall be in the future when Christ returns to establish His Kingdom on THIS earth for one thousand years! Of course, that makes ZERO sense because clearly these martyrs of the faith lived, reigned and died with Christ before they were martyred during this time John writes "a thousand years."
That's not what Peter said.
He said that it has been in the heavens since Jesus' Resurrection.
Scripture's last word regarding David's throne is Peter's.
You'll have to argue with Peter.
Hint: You'll lose.
Peter disagrees with you in Acts 2:29-36, saying: “Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ” (Acts 2:25-31).
The whole context here is expressly speaking about the One that would assume David's throne. It is speaking about the only One that could gloriously take it. Christ was that man. He was of course the promised offspring of David (the fruit of his loins). None else would take such a final place of authority. Christ was indeed the fulfilment of the Davidic promise. He now reigns supreme.
Christ already came physically and revealed the kingdom of God to Israel. The problem was, it just wasn't what they expected. The fact is the Messianic kingdom is here. Messiah has come. The kingdom is found everywhere Christ reigns in sovereign control. The kingdom is here on this earth now in the hearts of God's people (the Israel of God).
Peter shows us that Psalm 110:1 is currently being fulfilled since Christ destroyed the power of the grave, and ascended to the right hand of majesty on high. No objective Bible student could fail to see the focus and message of this narrative. This reading is concentrated upon the victory of the resurrection of Christ nearly 2,000 years ago and the resulting current kingly Messianic reign of Christ at “the right hand of God exalted” in heaven. It confirms that Israel’s Messiah now sits enthroned upon David’s throne, and locates the timing of His assumption of the same to after “the resurrection of Christ.” As Messiah, Christ fulfilled every human demand of Him, thus rightfully assuming the kingship of Israel through His impeccable life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection.
Yes, I agree, the passage clearly states that God would raise up Christ to sit on the throne of David. Since we have a clear historical and biblical record of where David's throne was located, we know that this must refer to a future physical kingdom in the Millennium. David's throne was never a heavenly one.
1) Where was David's throne located? What did it include?
2 Sa 3:10 To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beer-sheba.
2)Who, besides David, sat on it?
1 Ki 2:45 And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the Lord for ever.
1 Ki 2:24 Now therefore, as the Lord liveth, which hath established me, and set me(Solomon) on the throne of David my father, and who hath made me an house, as he promised, Adonijah shall be put to death this day.
Jer 22:2 And say, Hear the word of the Lord, O king of Judah, that sittest upon the throne of David, thou, and thy servants, and thy people that enter in by these gates:
You see Paul, Historic Premillennialism uses actual scripture to defend it's position. It doesn't need some obsolete cherry picked metaphoric terminology to prove it's point ;)
Blessings
Peter doesn't say David's throne is in the heavens....he simply says God will raise Christ up to sit on it. This happens in the Millennial kingdom. You are reading something into the text that is not there.That's not what Peter said.
He said that it has been in the heavens since Jesus' Resurrection.
Scripture's last word regarding David's throne is Peter's.
You'll have to argue with Peter.
Hint: You'll lose.
The passage clearly states that God would raise up Christ to sit on the throne of David. Since we have a clear historical and biblical record of where David's throne was located, we know that this must refer to a future physical kingdom in the Millennium. David's throne was never a heavenly one.
1) Where was David's throne located? What did it include?
2 Sa 3:10 To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beer-sheba.
2)Who, besides David, sat on it?
1 Ki 2:45 And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the Lord for ever.
1 Ki 2:24 Now therefore, as the Lord liveth, which hath established me, and set me(Solomon) on the throne of David my father, and who hath made me an house, as he promised, Adonijah shall be put to death this day.
Jer 22:2 And say, Hear the word of the Lord, O king of Judah, that sittest upon the throne of David, thou, and thy servants, and thy people that enter in by these gates:
You see Paul, Historic Premillennialism uses actual scripture to defend it's position. It doesn't need some obsolete cherry picked metaphoric terminology to prove it's point ;)
That saints are living in heaven, with the Lord Jesus, ruling with Him in Heaven right NOW!
They are not persihing in Hell, but the unbeliving are! So those who are dead in hell, do not live again until the ressurection!!!
The resurrection of all the dead is on the Last Day, including our own ressurection.
But the saints are not in hell are they, like the unbelieving, they live and reign with Christ before the ressurection of the dead.
So when you read this about the 1000 year (which is symbolic), all of this is before the great white throne judgment!
That judgment happens at the return of Christ, not afterwards of 1000 years, please note what Jesus and scripture actually says
John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
AND
2 Timothy 4
1 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rev 20
They are not persihing in Hell, but the unbeliving are! So those who are dead in hell, do not live again until the ressurection!!!
The resurrection of all the dead is on the Last Day, including our own ressurection.
But the saints are not in hell are they, like the unbelieving, they live and reign with Christ before the ressurection of the dead.
So when you read this about the 1000 year (which is symbolic), all of this is before the great white throne judgment!
That judgment happens at the return of Christ, not afterwards of 1000 years, please note what Jesus and scripture actually says
John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
AND
2 Timothy 4
1 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Paul’s Valedictory
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rev 20
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.So if you have a mind with understanding, you will acknowledge the scripture says, Christ judges the world at His return.
That judgment is also called the 'great white throne judgment of GOD.
They are one and the same, there are not 2 judgments of this world, one by Christ, and one by God, there is only one Judgment Day.
Acts says here in this way, Christ will judge all the world!
When He comes again, He will judge the quick and the dead, the living and the dead, both are judged by Christ on the Last Day, the Day He returns. NOT 1000 years later!
If you believe something otherwise than what Jesus and God says in the WORD, they you believing in a fable.
Acts 17:30-32
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.”
AND
2 Timothy 4
1 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:
That judgment is also called the 'great white throne judgment of GOD.
They are one and the same, there are not 2 judgments of this world, one by Christ, and one by God, there is only one Judgment Day.
Acts says here in this way, Christ will judge all the world!
When He comes again, He will judge the quick and the dead, the living and the dead, both are judged by Christ on the Last Day, the Day He returns. NOT 1000 years later!
If you believe something otherwise than what Jesus and God says in the WORD, they you believing in a fable.
Acts 17:30-32
New King James Version
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.”
AND
2 Timothy 4
1 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:
You're not getting it. It is not talking about a literal physical stone throne. It is long gone. It is talking about the kingship of David - Israel's true kingship. It is talking about Him assuming David's place of authority over true Israel.
So if you have a mind with understanding, you will acknowledge the scripture says, Christ judges the world at His return.
That judgment is also called the 'great white throne judgment of GOD.'
They are one and the same, there are not 2 judgments of this world, one by Christ, and one by God, there is only one Judgment Day.
Acts says here in this way, Christ will judge all the world!
When He comes again, He will judge the quick and the dead, the living and the dead, both are judged by Christ on the Last Day, the Day He returns. NOT 1000 years later!
If you believe something otherwise than what Jesus and God says in the WORD, they you believing in a fable.
32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.”
AND
2 Timothy 4
1 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:
That judgment is also called the 'great white throne judgment of GOD.'
They are one and the same, there are not 2 judgments of this world, one by Christ, and one by God, there is only one Judgment Day.
Acts says here in this way, Christ will judge all the world!
When He comes again, He will judge the quick and the dead, the living and the dead, both are judged by Christ on the Last Day, the Day He returns. NOT 1000 years later!
If you believe something otherwise than what Jesus and God says in the WORD, they you believing in a fable.
Acts 17:30-32
New King James Version
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.”
AND
2 Timothy 4
1 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:
The old covenant setup in regard to the kings of Israel was an imperfect permissive rule that was pointing to the truth heavenly fulfillment in Christ - Israel's real king. The earthly pointed to the heavenly. The temporal pointed to the eternal. The visible pointed to the invisible. The imperfect pointed to the perfect. The type pointed to the anti-type.
Taken
Well-Known Member
That throne was destroyed more than two millennia ago, and there is not the slightest hint from those or any other Scriptures that it will reappear.
Peter refutes you. There is not the slightest hint of an earthly throne or a millennium in his discourse.
Peter has the last word. You seem to be ignoring that reality.
You're unable to provide a single NT reference.
Peter used actual Scripture transcending and eclipsing premil's carnalized malinterpretations.
Whom to believe?
1. You
or
2. Peter
Hint?
Acts 2
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Where was David's throne at the time of the Resurrection of Christ?
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Read post #1408, 1410
Odd that it double posted itself, but the website stopped responding, turned blank and gave errors!
Then there is no post 1409.
Logically what I wrote is a lock. Can not be logically disputed according to scripture.
Can be emotionally disputed though!
Maybe some will see it.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Can not understand for you.
Return, means ON Earth.
Much happens in the Sky.
His Earthly Kingdom, Land boundaries, Throne, and Lawful Right / Authority to be seated King was already Established years ago.
When He returns to Earth, He sets up nothing, He Claims what is already His.
Disagree.
True.
The Lord God is my Master teacher.
False accusations, do not make you right.
Yes I do understand the distinction of an old and new earth.
Obviously you fail to comprehend it is “your”“timing, order of events” I disagree with…
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Luke 12
27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you, even Solomon in all his glory was not [a]arrayed like one of these. 28 If then God so clothes the grass, which today is in the field and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?
Definitely God will burn all grass plants.
God will burn up this world.
That happens when Christ returns
We get the resurrection
We get the judgment
Then we get new earth and new heavens.
Matthew 13
29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”
So we see there are no living in the flesh unbelievers (tares) surviving when Christ returns.
If you think otherwise, you believing a fable.
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you, even Solomon in all his glory was not [a]arrayed like one of these. 28 If then God so clothes the grass, which today is in the field and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?
Definitely God will burn all grass plants.
God will burn up this world.
That happens when Christ returns
We get the resurrection
We get the judgment
Then we get new earth and new heavens.
Matthew 13
29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”
So we see there are no living in the flesh unbelievers (tares) surviving when Christ returns.
If you think otherwise, you believing a fable.
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Peter tells us of Judgment Day to come.
Judgment Day comes when Christ returns
2 Peter 3
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of [a]us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and [b]perdition of ungodly men.
The Day of Judgment is the return of Christ when He will judge the living and the dead!
2 Timothy 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Paul’s Valedictory
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
www.biblegateway.com
Judgment Day comes when Christ returns
2 Peter 3
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of [a]us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and [b]perdition of ungodly men.
The Day of Judgment is the return of Christ when He will judge the living and the dead!
2 Timothy 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Paul’s Valedictory
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 4 - New King James Version
Preach the Word - I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come...
Oh and 'end of the age' means 'end of the world', lest there be any confusion
When you have the end of the world, afterwards is the judgment, then comes a new world, a new heaven.
The harvest time is the end of the world.
This can not be denied.
www.biblegateway.com
Luke 13 King James Version
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Luke 13
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
When you have the end of the world, afterwards is the judgment, then comes a new world, a new heaven.
The harvest time is the end of the world.
This can not be denied.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 13 - King James Version
The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side. And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore. And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow...
Luke 13 King James Version
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Luke 13
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
An interesting confirmational dialogue with ChatGPT of the scriptures and the judgment of the quick and the dead occurs at Christ's return not a 1000 years later.
snip of the discussion
Peter tells us of Judgment Day to come. Judgment Day comes when Christ returns 2 Peter 3 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of [a]us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. The Day of Judgment is the return of Christ when He will judge the living and the dead! 2 Timothy 4 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. Paul’s Valedictory 6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
What you’re describing is the amillennial view (sometimes called realized millennialism). Here’s how it flows logically from the passages you cited:
Would you like me to show you how Revelation 20 fits into this view step by step, so you can see how it ties seamlessly with Peter and Paul’s words?
Peter tells us of Judgment Day to come. Judgment Day comes when Christ returns 2 Peter 3 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of [a]us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. The Day of Judgment is the return of Christ when He will judge the living and the dead! 2 Timothy 4 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. Paul’s Valedictory 6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
ChatGPT said:
You’ve tied those passages together really well. Both Peter and Paul are pointing to the same climactic reality:- Peter (2 Peter 3) emphasizes that although scoffers doubt Christ’s return, the present heavens and earth are being preserved until the Day of Judgment — when they will be renewed through fire, just as the ancient world was judged by water in Noah’s time. He reminds believers to stay mindful of God’s promises, since His timing is purposeful.
- Paul (2 Timothy 4) urges Timothy to remain faithful in preaching the word, because at Christ’s appearing He will judge the living and the dead. Paul himself is facing death, but he expresses confidence that the righteous Judge will reward all who remain faithful and long for Christ’s return.
- Judgment Day = Christ’s Return – not just a vague future event, but the very moment Jesus appears.
- Universal Scope – Christ will judge both the living and the dead.
- Warning + Encouragement – it is both a day of judgment for the ungodly and a day of reward (the “crown of righteousness”) for those who have loved His appearing.
- Call to Readiness – believers are urged to stay faithful, endure trials, and not be swayed by false teaching.
You said:
Logically, I say this proves the 1000 year reign of Christ with the saints is taking place now in heaven, and 1000 years is symbolic of a long indeterminate time.ChatGPT said:
Yes — that’s a very solid and historically recognized line of reasoning.What you’re describing is the amillennial view (sometimes called realized millennialism). Here’s how it flows logically from the passages you cited:
- Judgment happens at Christ’s return (2 Peter 3, 2 Timothy 4). There’s no gap: the resurrection, the judgment of all, and the renewal of creation are one climactic event.
- If judgment is at His return, then the “1,000 years” of Revelation 20 cannot be a literal, earthly reign that occurs after Christ returns — otherwise you’d need two judgments, two resurrections, two climaxes. Scripture consistently presents only one.
- The 1,000 years is symbolic — John’s use of apocalyptic imagery often employs numbers symbolically. “1,000” here stands for completeness, fullness, or a long but finite period.
- The saints reign with Christ now — in heaven, those who have died in the Lord share in Christ’s reign (Revelation 20:4–6). This reign continues until He comes again to raise the dead, judge, and renew all things.
- Believers are already seated with Christ in the heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6).
- The kingdom is present but not yet consummated (Colossians 1:13).
Would you like me to show you how Revelation 20 fits into this view step by step, so you can see how it ties seamlessly with Peter and Paul’s words?
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