Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[David in NJ]

Your interpretation is fake news

What did Adam and Eve do after being confronted with their sins by God?
They passed the blame defending themselves accusing another.

God is not fooled by them or you either.
What you just said negates the need for the death of Christ on the cross.

i said only what God said FIRST in His Word

NEVER did i say nor imply that the death of Christ on the Cross was not needed or negated!!!

Read again the Wisdom of God spoken by the Holy Spirit = Romans 2:14-16

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

 

[David in NJ]

David is preaching another gospel.

There is only One Gospel = the same one i preach = John 3:16-21

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

At the Second Coming only those who are part of the MoB along with those who have rejected the Gospel will be consumed by fire.

Many have not rejected gospel because it has not been accurately declared to them = they remain in spiritual limbo.

God alone searches the hearts and weighs the intents and motives of a man.

Zechariah chapter 14 proclaims that God will retain some nations/peoples at His Second Coming = as does Revelation

You are just making things up. Paul indicated that Jesus will be taking vengeance on those who don't know God and those who don't obey the gospel. Those who haven't heard the gospel are responsible for what they do know.

Romans 2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Those who haven't heard the gospel have no excuse for not knowing God, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness and for not glorifying Him as God and not being thankful to Him (Romans 1:18-21). They will be judged for being "self-seeking" and for not obeying the truth that they know and obeying unrighteousness instead. Jesus will be taking vengeance on all unbelievers when He returns without exception.

Peter clearly had a much different understanding of what will happen on the day Jesus comes as a thief in the night than you do.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Peter also indicated that we look forward to "a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells" in fulfillmnet of the promise of Christ's second coming, not an earthly millennial kingdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Mankind is split into FOUR
1.) those who hear and are SAVED
2.) those who hear but reject = parable of the sower
3.) those who have not heard
4.) those whom the FATHER will call

Read carefully the Gospel and 2 Thessalonians

Read carefully how Jesus split mankind into TWO groups and adjust your understanding accordingly.

Matthew 12:30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

1.) Those who are with Jesus
2.) Those who are against Jesus

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That is simply not true. Where does Scripture teach that? Mankind is split into two. Premillennialists do all types of theological gymnastics to negate that. Men are either saved or lost, righteous or unrighteous, sheep, or goats, wheat or tares. There is no in between. They will either be caught up or caught on when Jesus comes. No wicked survive His return.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 declares: “the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

What unregenerate man is excluded from the description of "them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 1:8)?

Exactly. The way Premils twist the word of God is just unacceptable and disgusting. Nowhere does scripture indicate that there are more than two groups of people in the world in relation to salvation. Jesus clearly said "He who is not with me is against me" (Matthew 12:30). There are no people who are neither with nor against Christ. If someone is not with Him then they are against Him. There's no imaginary third group. As you pointed out there the references in scripture to the righteous and the wicked, the sheep and the goats, the saved and the lost, the just and the unjust and so on. How can someone try to create a third (and fourth in this case) group when scripture never does?

 

[WPM]

You are just making things up. Paul indicated that Jesus will be taking vengeance on those who don't know God and those who don't obey the gospel. Those who haven't heard the gospel are responsible for what they do know.

Romans 2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Those who haven't heard the gospel have no excuse for not knowing God, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness and for not glorifying Him as God and not being thankful to Him (Romans 1:18-21). They will be judged for being "self-seeking" and for not obeying the truth that they know and obeying unrighteousness instead. Jesus will be taking vengeance on all unbelievers when He returns without exception.

Peter clearly had a much different understanding of what will happen on the day Jesus comes as a thief in the night than you do.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Peter also indicated that we look forward to "a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells" in fulfillmnet of the promise of Christ's second coming, not an earthly millennial kingdom.

Premils have to butcher so much Scripture in order to get their error to fit.

 

[David in NJ]

Read carefully how Jesus split mankind into TWO groups and adjust your understanding accordingly.

Matthew 12:30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

1.) Those who are with Jesus
2.) Those who are against Jesus

Read carefully how Jesus is speaking to the nation Israel first and also includes speaking to the whole world.

This creates four groupings:
1.) those who hear and are SAVED
2.) those who hear but reject = parable of the sower
3.) those who have not heard
4.) those whom the FATHER will call

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Read carefully how Jesus is speaking to the nation Israel first and also includes speaking to the whole world.

This creates four groupings:
1.) those who hear and are SAVED
2.) those who hear but reject = parable of the sower
3.) those who have not heard
4.) those whom the FATHER will call

So, you just ignore that Jesus said all people are either with Him or against Him when He said "he who is not with me is against me"? Is there any scripture you won't twist to make it say what you want it to say? In terms of salvation, Jesus made it very clear that there are two groups, not four. Why do you deny such obvious truth? Again, He said "he who is not with me is against me" and He often talked about people as either being righteous or wicked, just or unjust, sheep or goats, wheat or tares, and so on. So, we should look at things the way He did which was that all people are in one of two groups, not four. Right now at this moment everyone is either saved or lost. There is no in between. Scripture never teaches such a thing.

 

[David in NJ]

So, you just ignore that Jesus said all people are either with Him or against Him when He said "he who is not with me is against me"? Is there any scripture you won't twist to make it say what you want it to say? In terms of salvation, Jesus made it very clear that there are two groups, not four. Why do you deny such obvious truth? Again, He said "he who is not with me is against me" and He often talked about people as either being righteous or wicked, just or unjust, sheep or goats, wheat or tares, and so on. So, we should look at things the way He did which was that all people are in one of two groups, not four. Right now at this moment everyone is either saved or lost. There is no in between. Scripture never teaches such a thing.

Lack of Scriptural retention leads to a lack of understanding of ALL of which God has said beginning in Genesis and ending in Revelation.

 

[WPM]

Mankind is split into FOUR
1.) those who hear and are SAVED
2.) those who hear but reject = parable of the sower
3.) those who have not heard
4.) those whom the FATHER will call

Read carefully the Gospel and 2 Thessalonians

You are running from the biblical facts. Please address.

I Thessalonians 5:2-3: “the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

Paul says, “the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day” (II Thessalonians 1:7-10).

How can the wicked survive this? It is impossible! What unsaved person is exempt from this description “them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ”?

Amillennialists take these literally! Premillennialists are forced to spiritualize these away. This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors! There are no goats left to enter into the supposed Premil future millennium!!!

 

[WPM]

Lack of Scriptural retention leads to a lack of understanding of ALL of which God has said beginning in Genesis and ending in Revelation.

You have been well and truly check-mated.

 

[David in NJ]

You have been well and truly check-mated.

too funny

 

[Davy]

In your opinion, sure. And, my opinion is that you are wrong in your understanding of that passage. Fair enough.

I am not wrong about David's throne being moved from Jerusalem yet still here on earth, you just don't realize it, or maybe you don't want... to realize it.

Jesus proved what I'm saying indirectly in that Matthew 19:28 verse, because there He showed that only in the future "regeneration" of Israel when His 12 Apostles inherit their 12 thrones judging over the 12 tribes of Israel, that is when Jesus will sit in the throne of His inheritance, which is David's earthly throne.

 

[Scott Downey]

Lack of scriptural insight on the part of premill POV, example

The premill position believes the antichrist reigns on earth for 3.5 years, and deceives all people except for the elect of God, forcing them to worship him and the image of the beast or they are killed.

The unbelieving world worships the beast and his image, and follows Satan.

They do not know God and Christ.

Yet premill believes in unbelieving survivors when Christ returns, that only the beast worshippers Christ kills.
Yet the beast worshippers do not Know God and they say people who do not know God are preserved alive at the second coming.

And according to scripture there are ZERO people alive who refused to worship the beast at the time of the end and who are unsaved before Christ's return, because the beast has killed all of them .
So how can there be any survivors at the return of Christ who do not know God and who do not worship the beast?
As if they do not receive the mark they can not buy or sell, and they are all killed if they do not worship the beast and his image.

The Beast from the Earth​

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives [f]those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has [g]the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

 

[Scott Downey]

The only ones NOT deceived by the beast, antichrist, Satan, at the time of the end are the elect of God, the saints.
All unbelieving are beast worshippers.
Even today, all unbelieving are following Satan and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh as Ephesians 2 states.

As you can read, if you believe the scriptures, there are no unbelieving survivors when Christ returns, logically there can be none as they all are Dragon worshippers. The only ones who may go into captivity to survive are the SAINTS, not the non saints, v9, v10.

Here you go again, anyone who claims there are survivors of the Day of Christ who are not the saints is making up lies.
Honestly if you are believing in unsaved survivors, you should immediately change your POV here.
This is what happens when people read into Zech 14 what they want as they prefer that over our New Testament doctrine that God has written down for us about the end. They make serious errors in their thinking. The only living survivors of the Day of Christ are the believing in Christ saints of God
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then [a]I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having [b]seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the [e]patience and the faith of the saints.

 

[Davy]

Lack of scriptural insight on the part of premill POV, example

The premill position believes the antichrist reigns on earth for 3.5 years, and deceives all people except for the elect of God, forcing them to worship him and the image of the beast or they are killed.

The unbelieving world worships the beast and his image, and follows Satan.

They do not know God and Christ.

Yet premill believes in unbelieving survivors when Christ returns, that only the beast worshippers Christ kills.
Yet the beast worshippers do not Know God and they say people who do not know God are preserved alive at the second coming.

And according to scripture there are ZERO people alive who refused to worship the beast at the time of the end and who are unsaved before Christ's return, because the beast has killed all of them .
So how can there be any survivors at the return of Christ who do not know God and who do not worship the beast?
As if they do not receive the mark they can not buy or sell, and they are all killed if they do not worship the beast and his image.

That above is coming pretty much from what your Amill preachers have told you 'outside' the actual written Word of God.


The Revelation 20, Zechariah 14, Isaiah 24:22, Revelation 22:14-15, John 5:28-29, are just a small number of Bible Scripture examples proving that the wicked will still... exist after Christ's future return.

So you really have NO EXCUSE to be pushing the false Amill ideas that your are trying to fool faithful saints by.

 

[Scott Downey]

That above is coming pretty much from what your Amill preachers have told you 'outside' the actual written Word of God.


The Revelation 20, Zechariah 14, Isaiah 24:22, Revelation 22:14-15, John 5:28-29, are just a small number of Bible Scripture examples proving that the wicked will still... exist after Christ's future return.

So you really have NO EXCUSE to be pushing the false Amill ideas that your are trying to fool faithful saints by.

Fact is you have your own view as does everyone else
But at least I back it up with scripture from the New Testament as to what happens.
The others prefer the Old Testament and their own private interpretation.

 

[Scott Downey]

Life and Judgment Are Through the Son​

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

An example just given was John 5:28-29

Do you realize this is the final judgment, Day of Judgment?, at the END.

For them which have this resurrection of condemnation results in being cast into the Lake of Fire.
They do not continue on the earth as is.

Who then is fooling who?

 

[Scott Downey]

Rev 22
14 Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 [h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Outside yeah, they are outside floating in a lake of fire, not walking around on the New Earth

As in here
Rev 21
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said [b]to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It[c] is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Again who is trying to fool the saints?

 

[Scott Downey]

Isaiah 24
17 Fear and the pit and the snare
Are upon you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall be
That he who flees from the noise of the fear
Shall fall into the pit,
And he who comes up from the midst of the pit
Shall be [d]caught in the snare;
For the windows from on high are open,
And the foundations of the earth are shaken.
19 The earth is violently broken,
The earth is split open,
The earth is shaken exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel[e] to and fro like a drunkard,
And shall totter like a hut;
Its transgression shall be heavy upon it,
And it will fall, and not rise again.

21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the [f]pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.

23 Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.

Clearly this is about the first earth, it will fall, it's will be violently broken, as will all it's evil inhabitants will go into the PIT of HELL.
After many days they will be punished, as in the Lake of Fire after the judgment

v23 is about the New earth not the first earth