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Jesus as co-Creator

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Mighty Bear, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. Mighty Bear

    Mighty Bear New Member

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    Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” (Genesis 1:26)"The Lord possessed me at the beginning of his work,the first of his acts of old.Ages ago I was set up,at the first, before the beginning of the earth.When there were no depths I was brought forth,when there were no springs abounding with water.Before the mountains had been shaped,before the hills, I was brought forth,before he had made the earth with its fields,or the first of the dust of the world.When he established the heavens, I was there;when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,when he made firm the skies above,when he established the fountains of the deep,when he assigned to the sea its limit,so that the waters might not transgress his command,when he marked out the foundations of the earth,then I was beside him, like a master workman,and I was daily his delight,rejoicing before him always,rejoicing in his inhabited worldand delighting in the children of man." (Proverbs 8:22-31)“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,and the heavens are the work of your hands;they will perish, but you remain;they will all wear out like a garment,like a robe you will roll them up,like a garment they will be changed.But you are the same,and your years will have no end.” (Hebrews 1:10-12)"But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses." (Acts 3:14-15)
     
  2. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    Jesus was all of it! Colossians 2:9, 1st John 5:7, Isaiah 9:6. He is the FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST! He was not seperated from the father in Creation, he was the Father. When he said let us make man in our image he was talking about the image of God and his angels. The Father in creation, the Son in Redemption, and the Holy Ghost in Regeneration. Jesus is not seperate from the Father, he is the Father, Isaiah 9:6 in the Flesh.
     
  3. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    thats right
     
  4. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    Jesus was the co creatorHe did it with God and God.So God, God and God were the creatorsThe passages you just spoke proved the trinity. God, Jesus and the holy spirit three in oneYour brother in christ.Ryan Fitz
     
  5. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    Brother, if it says one than it means One. You said GOD GOD GOD, so he's separated? Just like How I am a brother, a son and a nephew, see? That's how God is. The Father works through the Son and his Holy Spirit. Through Yeshua HaMashiach, the Father and his Spirit is glorified. Tell me, you trinitarians, if God is three in one, are there separate entites? Like her is YHWH in the Middle, Yeshua on the right, and the Holy Spirit on top? That doesn't make sense. Explain why Yeshua is not the same as God the father. Then I'll post an exposition on a few things I have or either a rebuttal.
     
  6. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    um I can't Its beyond human understandingjust like god was, is, and forevor will be.how can we understand that. we can't what I can say is that the isrealites believed in only one God, God says he is only one, but Jesus said he was God, and God gave him his approval. Are you saying that Jesus is a different God and therefore saying that God was wrong. God can't be wrong so therefore it has to be three in one.Your brother in christRyan Fitz
     
  7. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    United Pentecostal oneness believers believe this, so before anyone points out that I took this idea from them, I didn't, it's from divine revelation. Jesus had One Spirit and two natures. The Nature of God and Man. In Mark 10:18 he asks the man why do you call me good. In those times, it was like a Jewish Idiom, anything that was good was of God, cause God was absolute good. Do you know why Jesus asked the Man why do you call me good? Cause although Jesus was fully God and Fully man, and the Father Dwelling in Him Colossians 2:9, the Flesh could not give glory to the Father, which he was and was in him, but his Spirit Could. Christ the Man always Gave glory to the Father, because Yeshua HaMashiach was The Father in Flesh. Spirit cannot Glorify Flesh, it's the other way Around. Remember Matthew 27:46 when he cried in hebrew My God, My God why have you forsaken me? Because the Body that the Spirit of God was dwelling in could no longer hold his Spirit, cause it was full of Sin. Thereafter he cried, he Gave up the Ghost because his body was a Haven for Sin. Yeshua The Man, was Crying because he would give up the Ghost which dwelled in his body. Remember Christ was fullly MAN and GOD, so there are two natures Flesh and Spirit, but one Spirit. His Flesh Cried out because the Spirit of God would forsake the Body.Yeshua HaMashiach always Glorified himself even though he spoke of the father. JOHN 14 is probably the best chapter in all the bible that proves the deity and oneness of Christ, Father, and Holy Ghost. For Christ is all of it
     
  8. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    You know I don't even know Why I'm arguing with you.take a look at your signature. thats exactly what I believe.yahweh is one.and Jesusand the holy spirit are a part of him.and they are all one.Your brother in christRyan Fitz
     
  9. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    United Pentecostal oneness believers believe this, so before anyone points out that I took this idea from them, I didn't, it's from divine revelation. Jesus had One Spirit and two natures. The Nature of God and Man. In Mark 10:18 he asks the man why do you call me good. In those times, it was like a Jewish Idiom, anything that was good was of God, cause God was absolute good. Do you know why Jesus asked the Man why do you call me good? Cause although Jesus was fully God and Fully man, and the Father Dwelling in Him Colossians 2:9, the Flesh could not give glory to the Father, which he was and was in him, but his Spirit Could. Christ the Man always Gave glory to the Father, because Yeshua HaMashiach was The Father in Flesh. Spirit cannot Glorify Flesh, it's the other way Around. Remember Matthew 27:46 when he cried in hebrew My God, My God why have you forsaken me? Because the Body that the Spirit of God was dwelling in could no longer hold his Spirit, cause it was full of Sin. Thereafter he cried, he Gave up the Ghost because his body was a Haven for Sin. Yeshua The Man, was Crying because he would give up the Ghost which dwelled in his body. Remember Christ was fullly MAN and GOD, so there are two natures Flesh and Spirit, but one Spirit. His Flesh Cried out because the Spirit of God would forsake the Body.Yeshua HaMashiach always Glorified himself even though he spoke of the father. JOHN 14 is probably the best chapter in all the bible that proves the deity and oneness of Christ, Father, and Holy Ghost. For Christ is all of itJohn 14:17 Puts a stake at anything saying he is not the Father or Holy Ghost"Even the Spirit of Truth(Holy Ghost): whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him(The Holy Ghost) not(Corruptible Flesh cannot See Spirit), neither knoweth him(The Holy Ghost): but you know him(Holy Ghost): for he(Holy Ghost/God the Father) dwelleth with you(Yeshua HaMashiach) and shall be in You(Holy Ghost)." Then Came Pentecost! THE HOLY GHOST IS THE FATHER, THE HOLY GHOST IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, AND THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST IS THE SAME AS THAT OF THE FATHER. JESUS CHRIST IS THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST.
     
  10. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    amen!!!!even if you repeated the post twice
     
  11. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    (Letsgofishing;25888)
    Jesus was the co creatorHe did it with God and God.So God, God and God were the creatorsYour brother in christ.Ryan Fitz
    That makes it sound like there are three Gods, but of course there is only one Triune God, God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One God, one LORD, Three in One.
     
  12. John

    John Member

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    Brother, if it says one than it means One. You said GOD GOD GOD, so he's separated? Just like How I am a brother, a son and a nephew, see? That's how God is. The Father works through the Son and his Holy Spirit. Through Yeshua HaMashiach, the Father and his Spirit is glorified. Tell me, you trinitarians, if God is three in one, are there separate entites? Like her is YHWH in the Middle, Yeshua on the right, and the Holy Spirit on top? That doesn't make sense. Explain why Yeshua is not the same as God the father. Then I'll post an exposition on a few things I have or either a rebuttal.
    I don't think it is quite the same. You the brother can not send out you the son, while you the brother stays at home. You can not be the nephew in one place and the son in another place at the same time, while we see Jesus say how we should pray, our Father who is in heaven, while Jesus was on earthand when Jesus was transfiguredMatt 17:5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Here we have the Father and Son at the same time in two different placesthen there is Jesus being baptized Matt 3:16 and 17And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleasedAgain, the Son on earth the Father in heaven two persons of the God head in two different places at the same timeJohn 15:26 “When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.It seems to me that there are three distinct persons here not one. Jesus sends the counselor from the Father Isaiah 48:16Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Again three distinct persons
     
  13. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    Do you believe God is Omni Present? IF the Holy Spirit, Son and Father, which are One 1st John 5:7. Did you Read John 14:17? What should that tell you about Who Christ is? Distinct? Distinct means NOT BEING THE SAME, and Hebrews 13:8 would object to anything you would have to Say. Yeshua HaMashiach was the Logos(word) of YHWH made flesh, John 1:1,14 and the Holy Spirit of The Father dwelled in Him Colossians 2:9. Distinct? Different? No, then if that's so there would be three spirits, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I am not limiting God, I'm just pointing out the fallacy in your dogma. The Son is not distinct(different) from the Father or Holy Ghost. John Chapter 14 is the sleeper of any dogma of man saying Jesus is not Father son and Holy Ghost.With that said John 15:26, The Holy Spirit will testify of Christ, why because in 1st John 5:7, God is always glorifying and testifying of himself! Yeshua Gave the Father Glory, because the Father who was both in Heaven and in Him, Remember Man gives Glory to God."The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" Psalm 19:1I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermorePsalm 86:12Although YESHUA HAMASHIACH was fully God, he was also Fully Man. His Body, NOT SPIRIT was created, so his Human Nature Glorified God the Father. People will say then why did the Father Glorify the Son, BECAUSE HE WAS GLORIFYING HIMSELF! Was Yeshua not the Everlasting father of Isaiah 9:6?
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;26272)
    Do you believe God is Omni Present? IF the Holy Spirit, Son and Father, which are One 1st John 5:7. Did you Read John 14:17? What should that tell you about Who Christ is? Distinct? Distinct means NOT BEING THE SAME, and Hebrews 13:8 would object to anything you would have to Say. Yeshua HaMashiach was the Logos(word) of YHWH made flesh, John 1:1,14 and the Holy Spirit of The Father dwelled in Him Colossians 2:9. Distinct? Different? No, then if that's so there would be three spirits, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I am not limiting God, I'm just pointing out the fallacy in your dogma. The Son is not distinct(different) from the Father or Holy Ghost. John Chapter 14 is the sleeper of any dogma of man saying Jesus is not Father son and Holy Ghost.With that said John 15:26, The Holy Spirit will testify of Christ, why because in 1st John 5:7, God is always glorifying and testifying of himself! Yeshua Gave the Father Glory, because the Father who was both in Heaven and in Him, Remember Man gives Glory to God."The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" Psalm 19:1I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermorePsalm 86:12Although YESHUA HAMASHIACH was fully God, he was also Fully Man. His Body, NOT SPIRIT was created, so his Human Nature Glorified God the Father. People will say then why did the Father Glorify the Son, BECAUSE HE WAS GLORIFYING HIMSELF! Was Yeshua not the Everlasting father of Isaiah 9:6?
    Great post Unorthodox Christian. Amen!I just want to point out a word. DOGMA.the word dogs in some of the scriptures (at least) are referred to your enemies. Or men eating the traditions of men.For example ... Matthew 15:27JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
     
  15. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    Wow, that's an interesting thing you've pointed out, because Dogmas are man made once again. Jag you have a strong nack at looking at things from a spiritual side. You surely have a gift of Spiritual Knowledge.
     
  16. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Unorthodox Christian;26277)
    Wow, that's an interesting thing you've pointed out, because Dogmas are man made once again. Jag you have a strong nack at looking at things from a spiritual side. You surely have a gift of Spiritual Knowledge.
    Thank you very much. All glory goes to Yahshua in the name of YHWH.Is it because I refused to go back to sleep? or is it the fact that I'm too busy living in the spiritual realm? LOL!Jag
     
  17. John

    John Member

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    1 John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. I am not sure of how these scriptures prove your pointIt says that there are THREE in heaven that bear record Three Hebrews 13:88Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.John 1:1414And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. from John 1:1 we know the word was WITH God and we know the word was Jesus, Jesus was with God in the beginning.Genesis 1 :26 26And God said, Let us make man Who was with God in the beginning and through who are all things created. Jesus was with God in the beginning and Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever
     
  18. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Also note it says that that Christ was God. (John 1:1) It also says that Christ is called mighty God, everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6So God who was the Father (first) came as a Son. (second)Jag
     
  19. John

    John Member

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    (John 1:1) It also says that Christ is called mighty God, everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6So God who was the Father (first) came as a Son. (second)
    I agree with the fact that Jesus was God the Son but not God the Father, Who did Jesus pray to?Who was the voice from heaven saying this is my sonWho sits at the right hand of the fatherAnd the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form (John 5:37). Who talked to MosesWho talked with AbrahamAnd Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved” (Gen. 32:30).So the LORD became angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned from the LORD God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice (1 Kings 11:9).And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!” (Judges 13:22).also John 1:18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].You see we see God the Son before the incarnation It was he who spoke to Moses no one has ever seen or heard the Father
     
  20. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (John;26305)
    (thesuperjag;26301)
    Also note it says that that Christ was God. (John 1:1) It also says that Christ is called mighty God, everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6So God who was the Father (first) came as a Son. (second)Jag
    I agree with the fact that Jesus was God the Son but not God the Father,Who did Jesus pray to?Who was the voice from heaven saying this is my sonWho sits at the right hand of the fatherAnd the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form (John 5:37).Who talked to MosesWho talked with AbrahamAnd Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved” (Gen. 32:30).So the LORD became angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned from the LORD God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice (1 Kings 11:9).And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!” (Judges 13:22).also John 1:18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].You see we see God the Son before the incarnation It was he who spoke to Moses no one has ever seen or heard the FatherI am so not going to limit God on this area. Yahshua is likely to pray to Himself, at the same time, teaching them how to pray to their Heavenly Father (Himself) Yahshua is equal to His Father (Himself) (Philippians 2:6)I find it mysterious to read these scriptures that say God will be His Father and Him will be a Son. (II Samuel 7:14, Hebrews 1:5) And God came in virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matthew 1:23) yet Christ is called everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6On top of this...John 14:8 - Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.Here we have Phillip is asking Yahshua to show them the Father. Yahshua says...John 14:9 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?Phillip was looking at the Father the whole time, yet He didn't see it, He can see Him only as the Son...Jag
     
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