Jesus Before His Incarnation

[JesusIsFaithful]

I have been saying "Father" and "Son" are titles of the SAME one person. case closed.

To you it is. Agree to disagree. I leave you to God.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

JesusIsFaithful you must concede that the LORD, the one whom you calls the Father is the Lord Jesus. THE SAME ONE PERSON. your doctrine just fell apart. as I have been saying "Father" and "Son" are titles of the SAME one person. case closed.

Lord led me back to you to share some more.

His ways are higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

Isaiah 8:9 is testifying to the Son as the same deity as the Father of being of the One God; as in deity; not singular Person.

Being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God is signifying the Son's separate claim to deity in Philippians 2:5-11

I can understand your p.o.v. in reading it as just being of the One Person God but that is you reading your belief into those verses when scripture testifies of a separation, and so you need His wisdom in reading the scripture for scripture cannot go against scripture about Who God is.

Our "One God" requires man to have two or three witnesses in order to condemn any one BECAUSE no singular person can condemn any one.

Deuteronomy 17:6At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:15One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

As the One God commands, so does He abide by His own words as that commandment testifies to the Three Persons within the One God.

He cannot be a One Person God for that would mean He cannot judge anyone as God.

So those verses you see as testifying to the One Person God, I see scripture elsewhere clarifying those scripture as testifying to the Son separate from the Father and yet of the One God. When we are in Heaven living with God, we will see Jesus on the throne, but we shall also be able to approach the Holy God to be in the Godhead to see the Father and not just the Son to ask the Father because He loves us as well that we would not need the Son to intercede for us.

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Had not Jesus prayed to the Father in the Garden of Gethesmane?

Had not Jesus experienced the separation from the Father on the cross when He took our sins upon Himself?

Had not the Father & the Holy Spirit served as two separate Witnesses from Heaven to testify of the Son as God at Jesus's water baptism?

Otherwise, there would be unrighteousness in the One Person God for bearing witness of the Son if there was diversity within the One Person God for God cannot bear witness of Himself in that way.

And when God spoke for the creation of man, He did so in the plural sense in Genesis 1:26. That was the Son of God asking for the creation of man as the Father said "yes" and the Spirit of the Father was in agreement to allow the Son to make it so; and so when the One God established a word in creation, it was by having two other Witnesses within the One God in agreement with the Word of God involved in establishing a testimony in creation.

I understand your p.o.v. regarding those references you cited, but I see a testimony of the Son being of the same God as the Father is; a testimony of the Son's deity; not testifying to a One Person God, but the Son & the Father ARE One, because other scripture clarifies those references as separate Persons of the One God when you put aside your p.o.v. and take all scripture in aligning up the truths in His words as to Whom God is.

Because scripture cannot go against scripture, therefore setting aside p.o.v., take them altogether is how one learns the truth about Him in His words; with His help, of course.

 

[101G]

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Let's get an understanding of who this, King, immortal, invisible, and the ONLY WISE God.
A. King, Matthew 2:1 "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him".
B. Immortal: 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".
C. invisible: 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".
D. ONLY WISE: 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God".

THIS IS THE LORD JESUS, THE ONLY PERSON IN THE GODHEAD

 

[KBCid]

Isaiah 8:9 is testifying to the Son as the same deity as the Father of being of the One God; as in deity; not singular Person. Being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God is signifying the Son's separate claim to deity in Philippians 2:5-11
As the One God commands, so does He abide by His own words as that commandment testifies to the Three Persons within the One God.
He cannot be a One Person God for that would mean He cannot judge anyone as God.
So those verses you see as testifying to the One Person God, I see scripture elsewhere clarifying those scripture as testifying to the Son separate from the Father and yet of the One God.

You are correct that Christ the Son is a separate being from God the Father but there is no triune anything;
John 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The Holy spirit is the presence of God within each of the separate beings that came from God. The spirit of God was with his Son before the creation and the spirit of God was with his Son upon the earth and the spirit will be with each of the saved so that they can be one just as God and Christ are one.

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

There will be a separate spirit given to each of the saved;
Acts 2:1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

1 John 4:12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Thus in the end there will be God the father Christ the Son and a multitude of instances of the holy spirit according to all that will be saved and those spirits of God will be the helpers that keep all these individuals acting as one.

 

[101G]

The Holy spirit is the presence of God within each of the separate beings that came from God.

the Holy Spirit is God. Jeremiah 23:24 "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD". ok, tell me where the son is at in heaven and earth, likewise the father?

There will be a separate spirit given to each of the saved;
Acts 2:1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

it's the same Spirit that is the source of all the gifts, scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". these gifts are from verses 8-10. and let's see how many Spirits are there? 1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will".that's nonsense, "There will be a separate spirit given to each of the saved"

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You are correct that Christ the Son is a separate being from God the Father but there is no triune anything;

1 John 5:7 regarding the three Witnesses in Heaven as the "three are one " has been confirmed by earlier extra biblical writing as having been part of original scripture as far back as 200 - 258 A.D. Scroll down 3/4 of the page to see the list of evidence of extrabiblical writings citing 1 John 5:7.

1 John 5:7 and the Record in Heaven

Quoted in portion from the link above .. below. There are other references listed as quoting 1 John 5:7 as part of original scripture.

"it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 'And these three are one'." If Cyprian quotes I John 5:7 from his Bible in 200• 258 AD, it must be a valid reading. His Bible was copied from an older manuscript containing this verse.
Cyprian lived only 100 years after John wrote the book of I John. Cyprian would have had access to the original manuscript to check.
• Priscillian 350 AD, a Spanish bishop quotes I John 5:7,8.
• Idacius Clarus 360 AD, who opposed Priscillian quotes it."

Explain the calling for the act of creation.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Now note verse 27 when One God performed the act by Himself. That means no angels helped Him. Nothing else helped Him. He spoke. And it was done, but yet when requesting the act of creating man, God spoke to Who when only the One God created man?

Again we find the same thing when scattering the people at the tower of Babylon.

Here is one for the N.T.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Jesus deferred from Himself by referring to what the Father will do and deferred from Himself in telling us what the Holy Spirit will do. So you cannot place the Father, the Son, & the Holy Ghost as denying God as a Triune God.

There is a plurality within that One God for God to establish a word in creation and to be able to judge anyone. God is not switching hats as if He is a One Person God, but the One God is consisting of Three Persons as in Three Witnesses within that One God.

Yes.. the Holy Spirit has to count as a separate Witness in combining with my singular witness of the Son for that witness to be true.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Each person counts as a witness and so the 3 Witnesses in Heaven testifies of the Three Persons within the One God.

 

[KBCid]

1 John 5:7 regarding the three Witnesses in Heaven as the "three are one " has been confirmed by earlier extra biblical writing as having been part of original scripture as far back as 200 - 258 A.D. Scroll down 3/4 of the page to see the list of evidence of extrabiblical writings citing 1 John 5:7.

That verse has been controversial for quite some time and should not on its own be a foundation of understanding. If the verse is a truth from God and God does not change then that reference would be found throughout his word but as we can see here it is not;

Colossians 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Matthew 11:27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

God clearly asserts that everything is contained in 2.... Father and Son.
The holy spirit you believe is a separate being from Father and Son is also a false conception as Christ explains quite clearly in vs 18 here;

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; "for he dwelleth with you", and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Read those words carefully... Christ is saying that he and his Father together are the comforter. Christ said to them “ye know Him” Who is it that Christ was speaking about? Christ was speaking about the Comforter that currently dwelleth with them and that and shall be in you since they had not received the comforter yet. Christ was speaking of himself and the Father already residing in himself.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Which is why no one can be given the comforter until Christ goes away.

Isaiah 51:12I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass...

1 Peter 1:10-11 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: (11) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify.....

Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Joel 2:28 “And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out
My Spirit in those days.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Explain the calling for the act of creation.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Now note verse 27 when One God performed the act by Himself.

The "US" is the Father and Christ (the word) and "One God" did not "performed the act by Himself"

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[101G]

Read those words carefully... Christ is saying that he and his Father together are the comforter. Christ said to them “ye know Him” Who is it that Christ was speaking about? Christ was speaking about the Comforter that currently dwelleth with them and that and shall be in you. Christ was speaking of himself and the Father already residing in him.

GINOLJC, to all. KBCid said Read those words carefully,"Who is it that Christ was speaking about? Christ was speaking about the Comforter that currently dwelleth with them and that and shall be in you". Great, question time Who is the "ANOTHER" comforter? (verse 16) if the Father gives this comforter, and we all know by scripture that the Lord Jesus sits in heaven on the throne. question: John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”. he is a single person, not two. KBCid can you reconcile this scripture? clearly the scriptures say "and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him". here is that we and our as in Genesis 1:26 . so please reconcile this we , our, and the HE. can't wait for that answer. How can we and our = HE.... (smile).