Jesus Christ IS The Yahweh of The Old Testament

[Cooper]

This might help,

“PERSONALITY. In the first place, we endeavor to establish the personality of the Holy Spirit. By this we here mean that the Holy Spirit is a real being, possessing intelligence, and performing personal actions; not, however, a being distinct and separate in essence from the Father. We understand the one undivided essence or being in the Godhead to exist in three distinct persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We would prove the personality of the Holy Ghost, 1. By the appellations; 2. By the actions; 3. By the honors, ascribed to him. If these be such as can only be applicable to a real and personal existence, then the inference will be clear that the Holy Spirit is a real and personal being, and not a mere abstract attribute, energy, or influence.”

(Thomas Ralston - Elements of Divinity, p.40)

These people do use a lot of pseudo academic language don't they. Haven't they ever heard of plain English?

We know God is Spirit, so that describes the Father, and we also know the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus. We also know Jesus said, "It is not I who does these things but the Father in me," meaning the Holy Spirit in him. We also know the body of Jesus is not God, but the Holy Spirit in him is God. The common denominator is the Holy Spirit in heaven and on earth and with that in mind, I would say Jesus is the One God manifest on earth in the flesh. Thus Jesus sometimes spoke as a man and at other times with the authority of God. Then we can sing with the angels, Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty at the annunciation. Jesus being the Word who created all things. Any questions?
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[07-07-07]

Jesus Christ is indeed found in the OT.

Proverbs 8
[22] The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
[26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
[28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
[29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

 

[Cooper]

Jesus Christ is indeed found in the OT.

Proverbs 8
[22] The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
[26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
[28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
[29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Nice signature. (And post.)
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[CadyandZoe]

What I have shown in the OP is my defence. What you have written does not represent what I have said, not does it really contradict it. You misunderstand the two passages, 1 Cor. 10:9, and Jude 5. Both are very clear on the Deity of Jesus Christ.

I argued that your interpretation is in error due to your mistaken definition of "Christ".

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I argued that your interpretation is in error due to your mistaken definition of "Christ".

you are free to, but you are wrong. I have shown how in the OP. your reasoning is flawed

 

[CadyandZoe]

you are free to, but you are wrong. I have shown how in the OP. your reasoning is flawed

Show me. I contend that the term "Christ" is NOT an indication of deity. I showed you examples where this is the case.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Show me. I contend that the term "Christ" is NOT an indication of deity. I showed you examples where this is the case.

I have never said in the OP, that the Term "Chtist" proves the Deity of Jesus Christ. What I have shown, is that the reading "Christ" in 1 Corinthians 10:9, which is a reference to Numbers 21, where it says in verse 6, that "Yahweh" sent the snakes to kill the people, and Paul identifies that as Jesus Christ. Do you get this?

 

[CadyandZoe]

I have never said in the OP, that the Term "Chtist" proves the Deity of Jesus Christ. What I have shown, is that the reading "Christ" in 1 Corinthians 10:9, which is a reference to Numbers 21, where it says in verse 6, that "Yahweh" sent the snakes to kill the people, and Paul identifies that as Jesus Christ. Do you get this?

I understood what you said but I disagreed with it. The reading "Christ" in 1Corinthians 10:9 isn't talking about Jesus the Christ; it is talking about Moses the Christ.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I understood what you said but I disagreed with it. The reading "Christ" in 1Corinthians 10:9 isn't talking about Jesus the Christ; it is talking about Moses the Christ.

Really? and what Bible do you use? There is not ONE Scripture verse that ever calls Moses the "Messiah". Also, it is very clear from the passage in Numbers, that this Person is Yahweh, which is The Name for God ONLY!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Really? and what Bible do you use? There is not ONE Scripture verse that ever calls Moses the "Messiah". Also, it is very clear from the passage in Numbers, that this Person is Yahweh, which is The Name for God ONLY!

This proves to me that some people don't take the time to read my posts. hmm. Did you read Hebrews 11:24-27 ?

 

[Curtis]

One God from beginning to end, the Alpha and Omega. The omnipresent founder and Saviour of the universe, who made himself known to us in our image and likeness, clothed in flesh, who in summery, said follow me, I am the Good Shepherd of Psalm 23 and David's Lord of Psalm 110 made visible.
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God WITH God, in John 1:1.

Jesus baptism: the Father in heaven speaks, the Holy Spirit is in between heaven and earth, descending, and Jesus on the earth in the water, simultaneously.

Jeremiah 19: YHW on earth destroys Sodom by fire and brimstone from YHW in heaven.

That’s too clear to obfuscate.

Shalom.

BTW in revelation God the father hands a scroll to Jesus.

Do you seriously claim Jesus picked up a scroll in one hand, and gave it to His other hand?

 

[Curtis]

and why would you even think this? show from the OP

Because he’s making the modalist argument that Jesus plays all three roles, or modes, of God, and there is no trinity.

 

[Cooper]

This proves to me that some people don't take the time to read my posts. hmm. Did you read Hebrews 11:24-27 ?

1 Corinthians 10:1-9 KJV
(1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
(2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
(3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

(4) AND DID ALL DRINK THE SAME SPIRITUAL DRINK: FOR THEY DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM: AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

(5) But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
(6) Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
(7) Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
(8) Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
(9) Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.


Psalms 78:35 KJV
(35) And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer. (The high God is Jesus the Redeemer.)



Numbers 21:5-8 KJV
(5) And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.
(6) And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
(7) Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
(8) And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

The LORD said to Moses. Moses is not deity.

Hebrews 11:24-26 KJV
(24) By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
(25) Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
(26) ESTEEMING THE REPROACH OF CHRIST GREATER RICHES THAN THE TREASURES IN EGYPT: FOR HE HAD RESPECT UNTO THE RECOMPENCE OF THE REWARD.

Moses worshiped Christ or as Jews know him, Yahweh.

Source Joseph Benson.
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[Cooper]

God WITH God, in John 1:1.

Jesus baptism: the Father in heaven speaks, the Holy Spirit is in between heaven and earth, descending, and Jesus on the earth in the water, simultaneously.

Jeremiah 19: YHW on earth destroys Sodom by fire and brimstone from YHW in heaven.

That’s too clear to obfuscate.

Shalom.

BTW in revelation God the father hands a scroll to Jesus.

Do you seriously claim Jesus picked up a scroll in one hand, and gave it to His other hand?

Who is this King of glory? The Lord of Hosts, He is the King of glory. Selah.

“Our Redeemer, the Lord of Hosts is His name, The Holy One of Israel.” Isaiah 47:4

“In that day the Lord of Hosts will be a crown of glory, and a diadem of beauty, to the remnant of His people.” Isaiah 28:5

Diaddem – a jeweled crown or headband worn as a symbol of sovereignty

The Lord of Hosts is revealed in the New Testament as Jesus Christ!

All the power and glory expressed in the Name Lord of Host in the Old Testament is step by step shown to be also in Jesus.

Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies but also showed His power over all creation.

Jesus is revealed as Creator, The Word, The Light, The Truth, The Way, The Judge etc. Jesus showed that He is the Living Bread, The Living Water, and we are to drink (His Blood). He is Life…Eternal Life.

Jesus forgave sins! Jesus raised the dead! Jesus healed the sick! Jesus stopped the storms. Jesus walked on the water. Jesus cast out Demons. Jesus opened the eyes of the blind. Jesus knew everything in the hearts of the people. Jesus could have called 12 legions of angels. ( a Roman legion was 6,000 men. 12 would be 72,000 angels. Jesus could have called, million or billions or more. He was declaring that He, Jesus was the Lord of Hosts!)

Jesus overcame all the temptations of Satan. He won victory over sin, death and the grave. Jesus died but came back to Life! Alive and Risen.

Jesus ascended into heaven and is seated at the right Hand of the Father.

The scripture speaks of the judgment seat of Christ.

We see the angels, Gabriel and the hosts of heaven involved in the Birth of Jesus. Matthew 1st and 2nd chapters and Luke 1st and 2nd chapters.

Lord Jesus Christ, the I AM, descending from heaven with his powerful angels. Also innumerable angels giving glory and honor to Jesus. 2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27-28; 25:31-34 and other scriptures, Revelation 5, 6, 7,14’ chapters and also in other scriptures.

The angels involved as the Lord Jesus Christ executes the final judgement Matthew 13:41-50; 24:30-31 and other scriptures.

We do hear the angels rejoicing over our human salvation in Christ Luke 15th chapter; Hebrews 12th chapter and other scriptures.

Revelation 19th – 22nd chapter reveals Jesus ruling and in glorious power in the end times and in the New Heaven and New Earth.

The all-encompassing power and authority of the Lord of hosts is attributed to the Lord Jesus Christ. Of him the apostles wrote:

‘(God) raised Him (Jesus) from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come’ Ephesians 1:20,21

‘For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him’ Colossians 1:1

‘Christ, who is the head over every power and authority’ Colossians 2:10

‘And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all God’s angels worship Him”’ Hebrews 1:6

Jesus Christ: is the Lord of Hosts.

When you pray in the Name of Jesus you unleash all the power in the Name ‘the Lord of Hosts’.

Jesus is able to do as He wills! We can trust Him completely! Amen

Over and over, thousands of time while carrying the cross around the world I have called out the Name of the Lord of Hosts! Jesus help me, lead me, deliver me, strengthen me. Show me Your way!

Pilgrim followers of Jesus,

Arthur and Denise Blessitt, Luke 18:1

The Lord of Hosts!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Because he’s making the modalist argument that Jesus plays all three roles, or modes, of God, and there is no trinity.

complete rubbish!

 

[CadyandZoe]

1 Corinthians 10:1-9 KJV
(1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
(2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
(3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

(4) AND DID ALL DRINK THE SAME SPIRITUAL DRINK: FOR THEY DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM: AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.

(5) But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
(6) Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
(7) Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
(8) Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
(9) Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.


Psalms 78:35 KJV
(35) And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer. (The high God is Jesus the Redeemer.)



Numbers 21:5-8 KJV
(5) And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.
(6) And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
(7) Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
(8) And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

The LORD said to Moses. Moses is not deity.

Hebrews 11:24-26 KJV
(24) By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
(25) Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
(26) ESTEEMING THE REPROACH OF CHRIST GREATER RICHES THAN THE TREASURES IN EGYPT: FOR HE HAD RESPECT UNTO THE RECOMPENCE OF THE REWARD.

Moses worshiped Christ or as Jews know him, Yahweh.

Source Joseph Benson.
.

I remain unconvinced by your references. As I said, the word "christos" means "the anointed" and there were many who had that title other than Jesus.

 

[Cooper]

I remain unconvinced by your references. As I said, the word "christos" means "the anointed" and there were many who had that title other than Jesus.

The info is in the text.
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[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I remain unconvinced by your references. As I said, the word "christos" means "the anointed" and there were many who had that title other than Jesus.

Can you show from ONE Scripture, where David is called "the Christ", or "Messiah"

 

[CadyandZoe]

Can you show from ONE Scripture, where David is called "the Christ", or "Messiah"

There are many called "machiyach" in the Bible. The priests of Levi were "machiyach" (his anointed) King Saul was God's "anointed" 1Samuel 24:6. Samuel anointed David in the presence of his brothers 1Samuel 16:13.

In other words, every priest of Levi was a "messiah" and every king of Israel was a "messiah", anointed with oil and chosen of God. Neither the term "messiah" or "christ" indicate deity. They indicate a human being whom God has chosen for a very special purpose. It just so happens that Jesus the Christ is not only a human being chosen as THE CHOSEN ONE; he is also God incarnate. Both are true. It's just that "christ" is not a term to indicate God incarnate.

 

[Cooper]

There are many called "machiyach" in the Bible. The priests of Levi were "machiyach" (his anointed) King Saul was God's "anointed" 1Samuel 24:6. Samuel anointed David in the presence of his brothers 1Samuel 16:13.

In other words, every priest of Levi was a "messiah" and every king of Israel was a "messiah", anointed with oil and chosen of God. Neither the term "messiah" or "christ" indicate deity. They indicate a human being whom God has chosen for a very special purpose. It just so happens that Jesus the Christ is not only a human being chosen as THE CHOSEN ONE; he is also God incarnate. Both are true. It's just that "christ" is not a term to indicate God incarnate.

The same goes for the English monarchs, they're all anointed with oil. We even have a House of Lords but no one is suggesting they are gods, like in Psalm 82. If this continues I will be thinking the Jews are polytheistic. They have always worshipped false gods in the Old Testament. It is enough to put people off Judaism for ever. Jesus did say if they knew the Father, they would know him, and with all this negativity I wonder if they do know the Father, seeing as they hold Jesus at arm's length. I don't remember the Bible saying we have to bang our head against a wall. Sometimes it pays to be careful what is said.
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