Jesus is God
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Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
What became flesh was the spoken word of God. Jesus continually telling the religious dictators of his time
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
— Matthew 10:20
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
— John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
— John 8:28
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
— John 8:38
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
— John 12:49-50
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
— John 14:10
These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
— John 16:25
It’s the spoken word of God. That’s what became flesh Matthew 10:20 clearly teaches that when the spirit of God Speaks through one of his children that is the word of God.
PS95
Well-Known Member
I love this question. It certainly is a confusing one though lol
The Word of God who was with God became flesh and was God. ... ut oh
Was the Word the same God that God was with? That doesn't make sense to my finite little mind.. so, How many Gods are there? 1?
Or do we have 2 Gods now?- Isa 45:5
Or how about 1 God and a little god? Isa 44:8, Isa 45:5-6, Deut 4:35
Maybe God and a created angel? Heb 1, John 1:3
Did God give the world to come to an angel? Heb 2:5
Can God be two places at once? Ps 139-
Did God in HIs fullness live in the flesh of Jesus' body to reconcile us to Himself? 2Cor 5:19, Col 2:9
Did God say he created the heavens and earth all ALONE, BY HIMSELF or did God really have a secret helper? Isaiah 44:24
Does John say that NOTHING ever created was created without the Word? John 1:3
Does Colossians say the same- ALL THINGS? Col 1
Is Prov 8 teaching us that the Word was created as wisdom?- God has always had wisdom and did not need to create it. Wisdom was possessed by God. Wisdom Does that sound like Jesus? Before all ages? Of course! Does this fit with the trinity? Yes-
Did God create things by speaking them into existence? PS 33:9, Gen 1:3, 2Peter 3:5, Ps 148:5, Rev 4:11
Did Jesus have human father so He was exactly like us or did the power of the Most High beget father His Son? Luke 1: 32,35
Was Jesus born of a human mother? 1:34
So was Jesus God?
Did Jesus say that He came out of God? exerchomai- John 8:42, John 16:27.-30, John 17:8, John 13:3
He is God's only begotten Son. John 3:16 monogenes- https://www.tbsbibles.org/page/Monogenes
The Word was God-- john 1:1a
The Word became flesh John 1:14
Was Jesus the exact representation of God?- Heb 1:3
If you saw Jesus did you see the Father?- John 14:9
Has anyone seen God?- John 1:18a
Is God the First and the Last? -Isa 44:6
Is Jesus the First and the Last?- Rev 1:17-18
Alpha Omega?<-- (means a to z) aka first and last Beginning and the end? same thing -Rev 22:13
Does Jesus accept worship? -Matt 28:9......
Does the Lamb receive latreo (sacred service) with God while on the ONE throne? Rev 22:3
Do we need another name besides JESUS for salvation? Acts 4:12, Phil 2:9
Did Jesus have memories of His pre-existence? YES. YES and YES. Do I really have to answer this again?
Having been raised a Jw I had to start from scratch and Pray a lot- I have a TON more--
Reconcile the above and you will have your answer.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
I generally say Jesus is the Son of God. Why? Jesus ( became flesh)/ God and man. So I do make that distinction. Threads like this are useless and JWs magnetize their drooling little selves to them to sew doubt.
Start a thread on Did Jesus' blood pay for your sins- or do JWs pay for your own sins with your physical death so that you are resurrected sinless because you died- ---Which one is it? and crickets...
If they can't understand what Jesus did- why expect them to know who He is?
Is the Word, God?
YES!
Is it hard to grasp? Yep. Do we walk by faith not by sight? Yes.
Should we change the bible so God makes better sense to us?
That's what the Jws did....
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PS95
Well-Known Member
their souls are in heaven in Revelation.
only God can destroy the soul not man, not even death.
just stop the nonsense.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 5
1 For every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He can [a]have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness. 3 Because of this he is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was.
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.”
6 As He also says in another place:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”;
7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The scripture here says Christ learned obedience (to the Father) by the things He suffered.
Christ really did feel what it was like to be made like us, having a flesh and blood body.
So, Christ can actually and really be our savior and mediator to God because He fully experience our human condition.
Christ humbled Himself.
Can you relate to that? Yes, He was made to be like us with a temporary flesh and blood body.
But He no longer has that body, and neither will we someday, we shall all be changed to be like Him
He was made to have a body like we have, and we will be made to have a body like He has.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hebrews 2
1 Therefore we must give [a]the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just [b]reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts[c] of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?
“What is man that You are mindful of him,
Or the son of man that You take care of him?
7 You have made him [d]a little lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
[e]And set him over the works of Your hands.
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”
For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made [f]a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”
13 And again:
“I will put My trust in Him.”
And again:
“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it [b]robbery to be equal with God, 7 but [c]made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Philippians 3:20-21
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
1 For every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He can [a]have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness. 3 Because of this he is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was.
A Priest Forever
5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him:“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.”
6 As He also says in another place:
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”;
7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
Spiritual Immaturity
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the [b]oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are [c]of full age, that is, those who by reason of [d]use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The scripture here says Christ learned obedience (to the Father) by the things He suffered.
Christ really did feel what it was like to be made like us, having a flesh and blood body.
So, Christ can actually and really be our savior and mediator to God because He fully experience our human condition.
Christ humbled Himself.
Can you relate to that? Yes, He was made to be like us with a temporary flesh and blood body.
But He no longer has that body, and neither will we someday, we shall all be changed to be like Him
He was made to have a body like we have, and we will be made to have a body like He has.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hebrews 2
1 Therefore we must give [a]the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just [b]reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts[c] of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?
The Son Made Lower than Angels
5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels. 6 But one testified in a certain place, saying:“What is man that You are mindful of him,
Or the son of man that You take care of him?
7 You have made him [d]a little lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
[e]And set him over the works of Your hands.
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”
For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made [f]a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
Bringing Many Sons to Glory
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who [g]sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”
13 And again:
“I will put My trust in Him.”
And again:
“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it [b]robbery to be equal with God, 7 but [c]made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Philippians 3:20-21
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ with Jesus the messiah οὗτός another whom ἐστιν πάντων κύριος is of all the lord.
LORD is never in caps to describe him.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
Jesus said....."I and my Father are one'.
Jesus said. 'If you've seen me, you've seen the Father".
This is another reason that the Bible refers to both as 'Lord".
Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh".
Behold
Well-Known Member
Paul says that Jesus is : Lord
""""If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."""""
New Living Translation
If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
English Standard Version
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Berean Standard Bible
that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Berean Literal Bible
that if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him out from the dead, you will be saved.
King James Bible
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Anyone can read what is there.
Simple and plain.
One dimensional logic needs it all complicated.
Ironic that it is too simple, and cults need to change it.
Which less in smaller caps and doesn't mean close to the name YHWH. Proof of nothing here.
That the Greek article is misrendered as definite, and there is an assumption mass nounage really hurts the bible in every English translation. For every passage used to prove the deityhood of the messiah, there are 3 that contradict the observation. There are major deficencies in logic. E.g. in Calvinism, God has to be justified, as if he weren't just to begin with.
Behold
Well-Known Member
We have the word of God.....that is the written word.......so the "w" lower case .
We have the Word of God... that is pre-incarnate Jesus who is the "Word" "W" upper case..
Notice.
1.) """"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...
2.) And the Word (John 1) was = made flesh, (virgin born) and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."""
Davy
Well-Known Member
Jesus covered that part in Matthew 10:28 when He told us to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but NOT our SOUL.
So you tell me, what does that mean happens to our Soul if our flesh body is killed? To cover that Jesus said the following in that Scripture...
"... but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28).
And per other Bible Scripture, like what happens to our flesh body after flesh death, it goes back to the elements of the earth where it came from, so the "body" in that latter phrase above cannot mean the flesh body that perishes in hell. It's about one's spirit body that perishes with the soul in hell. The Revelation 20 Chapter calls that perishing the "second death". The first death is the death of one's flesh body; but the "second death" is about one's spirit body and soul perishing at the future "lake of fire".
Behold
Well-Known Member
Damnation is eternal.
2nd Death.......is not to be understood as the end.....but its the continuation of 1st death, for eternity.
So, 1st Death, is spiritual separation from God that Adam caused......and all unbelievers are in 1st Death, until they are born again OUT of it, into Eternal LIFE.
See it?
So, if 1st Death is never resolved by "new birth"... (Born again), then 1st Death becomes = 2nd Death, after the unbeliever dies, which means that is now becomes unresolvable Eternal separation from God, because you can't be born again in Hell.
= This is the 2nd Death.
The 1st Death could be resolved by becoming a Chrisitan.....but if that does not happen, then 1st Death becomes 2nd Death that is unresolvable = eternal damnation for the person who died never BORN again.
PS95
Well-Known Member
LOL Hiddenthings- Does Rev say that the souls of those martyred are under the altar in heaven speaking? YES or NO?
You can't just give a yes or no...
EVER.Well yes-- it says that but it does not mean that-- that blah blah blah Do you seriously think that I do not understand all the ways soul is used? Save it please.
The delusions of grandeur and narcissism is over the top.Since as a Christadelphian you deny that the Lord Jesus had a previous existence and even spoke about it with-His Father in heaven-- I see it as pointless to discuss anything further with you.
It says what it says- your private interpretation of what a soul is-- I do not desire nor is it the question.
But will that stop you?
I will not reply dear.
Right, because the Father was in him
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself
And as He was one with the Father he prays this way for them
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Who is the image of the invisible God
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; |
Even of ourselves it says
1 Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Jesus points out what David had spoken in relation to his Lordship here
Matt 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he?
They say unto him, The Son of David.
Matt 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Jesus references Psalm 110:1 concerning himself
Matt 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Which was speaking of his resurrection, but the apostles confirm, the LORD made Jesus our Lord
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
First begotten of the dead
Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,
Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
OT
Psalm 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
NT
Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth took their stand, And the rulers were gathered together Against the LORD and against His Christ
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist,
that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Phil 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Actually ......when Moses was talking to the Burning Bush..(God)........ He asked God for His '"name.""
God said......"I Am that I Am".
And Jesus told the Pharisees, that he existed before Abraham, as = "I AM".
So, He identified Himself as God to the Pharisees, including those on this forum.
"Man" is created in the image of the invisable God.
"Let US make MAN.......in OUR Image".
So, you are not realizing what you are posting., you are just "cut and pasting", out of context.
Jesus is the express image of God.....because He is : "God was manifested in the Flesh".
The "only begotten of God"", is God wrapped in Human Flesh, (Virgin Born).
If your read Genesis, you have God who "Spoke Creation", and Jesus pre-incarnate is the "WORD" of God."
If you read John 1:10......It says that '"""JESUS made the World", and of course He did., as Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh".
If you read Colossians 1:16, it says that He made everything and upholds it with His power.
Davy
Well-Known Member
There's that old JEWISH TRADITION of Soul Sleep again that wrongly believes our Soul part is part of our FLESH! What a backward, Biblically illiterate, carnal, fleshy doctrine. Yet it is a huge doctrine from the Jew's religion, Judaism. And sadly, some Christian denominations have followed suit of that old erroneous belief by the Jews.
Here is what God's Word reveals about the "second death":
Like what JESUS said in Matthew 10:28, we are not to fear those who can kill our flesh body, but NOT our Soul. But instead we should... fear Him (The Father) Who can destroy BOTH our spirit body and Soul in the future "lake of fire". The Scripture says DESTROY, not burn in eternity. It is the SMOKE of the consumption that rises forever, NOT the actual burning.
Ps 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
KJV
Ps 37:34-36
34 Wait on the LORD, and keep His way, and He shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
KJV
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