Jesus is God

[PS95]

Amen! And you know, I dont even blanch mine, when I gather them daily at their ripest times, I immediately wash them remove the cores only and freeze them. When I pull them out to make sauce I dump the frozen tomatoes into large pots to defrost over night and the skins come right off (no need to even blanch them) becaise being in the freezer causes them to lose all of their water the skins fall right off, and losing their water also makes for a nice thick sauce.

I have to try that!! Thanks!

 

[Behold]

Its like talking to a wall

John 1:10

It says that Jesus "made the world"...........see also Colossians 1:16

Who is that one?

= God created.

 

[GodsGrace]

I love this question. It certainly is a confusing one though lol
The Word of God who was with God became flesh and was God. ... ut oh
Was the Word the same God that God was with? That doesn't make sense to my finite mind.. so, How many Gods are there? 1?
Or do we have 2 Gods now?- Isa 45:5
Or how about 1 God and a little god? Isa 44:8, Isa 45:5-6, Deut 4:35
Maybe God and a created angel? Heb 1, John 1:3
Did God give the world to come to an angel? Heb 2:5
Can God be two places at once? Ps 139-
Did God in HIs fullness live in the flesh of Jesus' body to reconcile us to Himself? 2Cor 5:19, Col 2:9
Did God say he created the heavens and earth all ALONE, BY HIMSELF or did God really have a secret helper? Isaiah 44:24
Does John say that NOTHING ever created was created without the Word? John 1:3
Does Colossians say the same- ALL THINGS? Col 1
Is Prov 8 teaching us that the Word was created as wisdom?- uh No. God has always had wisdom and did not need to create it. Wisdom personified runs through the streets with "prudence." Does that sound like Jesus? Of course!
Did God create things by speaking them into existence? PS 33:9, Gen 1:3, 2Peter 3:5, Ps 148:5, Rev 4:11
Did Jesus have human father so He was exactly like us or did the power of the Most High beget father His Son? Luke 1: 32,35
Was Jesus born of a human mother? 1:34
So was Jesus God?
He is God's only begotten Son. John 3:16
The Word was God-- john 1:1a
The Word became flesh John 1:14
Was Jesus the exact representation of God?- Heb 1:3
If you saw Jesus did you see the Father?- John 14:9
Has anyone seen God?- John 1:18a
Is God the First and the Last? -Isa 44:6
Is Jesus the First and the Last?- Rev 1:17-18
Alpha Omega?<-- (means a to z) aka first and last Beginning and the end? same thing -Rev 22:13
Does Jesus accept worship? -Matt 28:9......
Does the Lamb receive latreo (sacred service) with God while on the ONE throne? Rev 22:3
Do we need another name besides JESUS for salvation? Acts 4:12, Phil 2:9
Did Jesus have memories of His pre-existence? YES. YES and YES. Do I really have to answer this again?

Having been raised a Jw I have a TON more--
Reconcile the above and you will have your answer.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

After all of that do I generally say Jesus is God. No, I generally say Jesus is the Son of God. Why? Jesus (flesh) was God and man. So I do make that distinction. Threads like this are useless and JWs magnetize their drooling little selves to them to sew doubt.
Start a thread on Did Jesus' blood pay for your sins- or do JWs pay for your own sins with your physical death so that you are resurrected sinless because you died- ---Which one is it? and crickets...
If they can't understand what Jesus did- why expect them to know who He is?
Is the Word, God?
YES!
Is it hard to grasp? Yep. Do we walk by faith not by sight? Yes.
Should we change the bible so God makes better sense to us?

I remember way back when the JWs used to state that Jesus was an angel.
And He might have been called such in Exodus in the burning bush.
But, of course, they didn't mean that angel---which was God AND an angel.
God, in 2 persons is all over the OT.

Nowadays they claim Jesus is the Son of God.
Which He also is....
so the lines have been blurred.
What is the difference between God and Son of God?
A Son of God is still God.....

The problem here is that Jesus is NOT a created being..so SON OF GOD might be a little confusing to some reading along.

JESUS IS GOD.
Period.

I'm going to go back and reply to your questions....
which will be an effort in fuitility....but I have some time.

I really don't care what one wants to believe about Jesus...
they'll take it up with God.

HERE is what I care about:
The definition of the word CHRISTIAN.

You see PS95 Christian means something very specific.
One must believe that Jesus is God
One must believe in the Trinity

Otherwise, one cannot call himself a Christian.

The Christian faith was created 2 thousand years ago..
NOT in the 1800's by some heretic that couldn't read or write Greek but thought he did.
And the odd persons that followed his belief system.

Some other persons that started their own religion are:
MUHAMMAD
JOHN SMITH
ELLEN WHITE
incl of course CHARLES RUSSELL
and others.

The above might be saved
but they are not Christian.

 

[Muna]

Side note--
1 Cor 8:6- Obviously, God the Father is also called, Lord. -
by Jesus
At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to infants.- Matt 11:25

and here--

Rev 11:15
Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” ( this is NOT the tetragrammaton- YHWH)

And we know that Jesus is also called God- if you want the verses let me know..
So Paul's meaning there is contextually, there are many false gods and lords (v. 5)-and so..
Look at the first 3 words of 1 Cor 8:6
BUT TO US- there is but one God and one Lord.
These are interchangeable titles obviously or else the scriptures are wrong---
but to them~~ they designated the titles that way in order to differentiate when speaking.
See the difference?
I know of no other way to read that, truthfully.

Right, God made Jesus Lord as it shows us in the Psalm Jesus points out

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

So you got the head of Christ is God the Father (who is LORD) making Jesus (the Word made flesh) who was resurrected both Lord and Christ as the apostles show us. God putting all things under Christ, but He himself is excepted of that obviously, being the Most high.

That was showing the resurrection there in the above,

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost,

The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jesus puts in his two cents here

Mark 12:37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son?

So David calls some one other than The LORD as "my Lord" this is Jesus

Who was made by God (Acts 2:36) both Lord and Christ

Even Elisabeth by the Holy Ghost, calls him "my Lord" when she adresses

Mary as mother of "my Lord"

They were waiting for him

 

[Muna]

John 1:10

It says that Jesus "made the world"...........see also Colossians 1:16

Who is that one?

= God created.

Post #430

No one is denying that Jesus exists as the word by whom the Father created all things

 

[PS95]

PS95
Just fell on this when I opened the Forum,
I don't really like to discuss this topic.
It is my firm belief that Christians should not be debating the Divinity of Jesus.
The number one requirement for a person to be defined as Christian is that they are to believe that Jesus is God.
JWs, for example, like to define themselves as Christian - but they are not.
(not to mean that they are not saved - but they are not Christian)

So, I just want to say this regarding your above post...
either Jesus was God always
or
He was never God.

To be God He had to exist before anything...at the beginning, as the NT states that He did.

No idea why you are saying this to me. I don't doubt that the Word became flesh is Jesus and the Word was God.
That post was about what the SCRIPTURES say about when Jesus was begotten.
The Nicene Creed uses eternally begotten? or is it born of God before all ages? Eternally begotten is confusing and is certainly NOT a necessary belief to be a CHRISTIAN since the bible doesn't explain that or does it..!?

I'm sorry but people like you who insist on man- made creedal wording are the reason for so much confusion and strife. Stick to the scriptures and you wont have to try to defend something manmade. Many many Christians do not agree with that part of the creed.
There is zero need to insist that a creed is 100% correct- it is wholly unnecessary to the belief that Jesus is God's Son and the Word was God from eternity.

Some will even say that He BECAME God at his baptism.

I have never heard that one. I know Jws say at baptism He became the Christ, and wasn't Christ the Lord at birth as the angel announced---- but seriously who listens to them? They say a lot of things that are stupid.

These are all concepts that are not theologically correct for the Christian faith.

You look at Luke 1:35...but what about all the verses that state that Jesus was from the beginning??

Again, you do not understand the discussion.

The attached regards statements by the ECFs regarding the Divinity of Jesus.
I'm just going to link it....if you or anyone reading along is interested.


Christ’s divinity is shown over and over again in the New Testament. For example, in John 5:18 we are told that Jesus’ opponents sought to kill him because he “called God his Father, making himself equal with God.”


In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am”—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—“I Am” (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. “So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple” (John 8:59).
In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, “My Lord and my God!” (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou—literally, “The Lord of me and the God of me!”)


In Philippians 2:6, Paul tells us that Christ Jesus “[w]ho, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped” (New International Version). So Jesus chose to be born in humble, human form though he could have simply remained in equal glory with the Father for he was “in very nature God.”


Also significant are passages that apply the title “the First and the Last” to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: “Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’” (Isa. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).


This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: “When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’” (Rev. 1:17). “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’” (Rev. 2:8). “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay everyone for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end” (Rev. 22:12–13).


This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title “the Alpha and the Omega,” which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty” (Rev. 1:8).

source: What the Early Church Believed: The Divinity of Christ

??? maybe you missed this post to you---

-https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/jesus-is-god.70261/page-20#post-2121885

 

[PS95]

Right, God made Jesus Lord as it shows us in the Psalm Jesus points out

Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

So you got the head of Christ is God the Father (who is LORD) making Jesus (the Word made flesh) who was resurrected both Lord and Christ as the apostles show us. God putting all things under Christ, but He himself is excepted of that obviously, being the Most high.

That was showing the resurrection there in the above,

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost,

The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jesus puts in his two cents here

Mark 12:37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son?

So David calls some one other than The LORD as "my Lord" this is Jesus

Who was made by God (Acts 2:36) both Lord and Christ

Even Elisabeth by the Holy Ghost, calls him "my Lord" when she adresses

Mary as mother of "my Lord"

They were waiting for him

yep and he was the Christ the Lord at His birth....according to the angels...and to the two Jews in the temple when He was a baby.. so there's that..
My point was that people take the titles and use it against Jesus being called God and Lord and the Father being called God and Lord.
The titles are used of both of them and that's just how it is. Even the apostles were still trying to figure all of this out.
It just is what it is! One God- One Lord. One creator!

 

[GodsGrace]

I love this question. It certainly is a confusing one though lol
The Word of God who was with God became flesh and was God. ... ut oh

Couldn't just reply could you PS95?
Because if you replied honesty, you'd have to stop being a JW.

Was the Word the same God that God was with? That doesn't make sense to my finite mind.. so, How many Gods are there? 1?

Why does God have to make sense to your finite mind?
Do you think an ant understands YOU??

The WORD was God.
Find out what LOGOS means.
I'm not going to teach you...
only the Holy Spirit can.

The WORD was a part of God.
IT became flesh.

Sad that you cannot understand this because it's what the bible teaches.

Or do we have 2 Gods now?- Isa 45:5

There is only ONE GOD.
I'm sure you've read the shema...
Deuteronomy 6:4
4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

Maybe YOU believe in a big god and a little god.
Christians believe in ONE GOD.

Or how about 1 God and a little god? Isa 44:8, Isa 45:5-6, Deut 4:35
Maybe God and a created angel? Heb 1, John 1:3
Did God give the world to come to an angel? Heb 2:5
Can God be two places at once? Ps 139-

Seems that He can.
Please see Exodus 3:2-6
2 The angel of the LORD appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.
3 So Moses said, "I must turn aside now and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up."
4 When the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am."
5 Then He said, "Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."
6 He said also, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.


The angel of the LORD appeared to Moses.
Who was the angel?
The angel, OR the LORD saw that Moses turned aside.
Was the angel God?
The LORD saw that he turned back to look.
and GOD called to him from the midst of the bush.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Perhaps you could post scripture instead of listing it?
Listing a scripture explains NOTHING.

Did God in HIs fullness live in the flesh of Jesus' body to reconcile us to Himself? 2Cor 5:19, Col 2:9
Did God say he created the heavens and earth all ALONE, BY HIMSELF or did God really have a secret helper? Isaiah 44:24

Jesus created EVERYTHING....
NOTHING was created without Him.
John 1:3
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing * came into being that has come into being.

Jesus is the WORD of God.
The spoken WORD created everything.

Perhaps you should have posted Isaiah 44:24.

Does John say that NOTHING ever created was created without the Word? John 1:3
Does Colossians say the same- ALL THINGS? Col 1
Is Prov 8 teaching us that the Word was created as wisdom?- uh No. God has always had wisdom and did not need to create it. Wisdom personified runs through the streets with "prudence." Does that sound like Jesus? Of course!

What's your point?
Was Jesus the ultimate revelation of God?

Calvinists also have to refer to the OT many times.
All that poetic language suits their odd belief system much better than the
literal teachings of Jesus and the NT writers.

Did God create things by speaking them into existence? PS 33:9, Gen 1:3, 2Peter 3:5, Ps 148:5, Rev 4:11
Did Jesus have human father so He was exactly like us or did the power of the Most High beget father His Son? Luke 1: 32,35

No scripture.
Amazing.
Jesus had an earthly father...
but it was not His biological father.
GOD is the biological father of Jesus.
Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

Was Jesus born of a human mother? 1:34
So was Jesus God?

If YOU have a son...
will he be human?

He is God's only begotten Son. John 3:16

Do you know what begotten means?
Or do you make the same mistake all English speaking persons make?

The Word was God-- john 1:1a
The Word became flesh John 1:14

And there you have it.
No other verse should be necessary.

Was Jesus the exact representation of God?- Heb 1:3
If you saw Jesus did you see the Father?- John 14:9
Has anyone seen God?- John 1:18a

Since Jesus IS God,,,,you've seen God,
but not the Father.
Ah. The beauty of the Trinity.

Is God the First and the Last? -Isa 44:6
Is Jesus the First and the Last?- Rev 1:17-18
Alpha Omega?<-- (means a to z)

Thanks for that PS...
so thoughtful of you.

aka first and last Beginning and the end? same thing -Rev 22:13
Does Jesus accept worship? -Matt 28:9......
Does the Lamb receive latreo (sacred service)

Thanks again.
so thoughtful of you.
Let's add that latreia worship is due ONLY to God.

with God while on the ONE throne? Rev 22:3
Do we need another name besides JESUS for salvation? Acts 4:12, Phil 2:9
Did Jesus have memories of His pre-existence? YES. YES and YES. Do I really have to answer this again?

Having been raised a Jw I have a TON more--
Reconcile the above and you will have your answer.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

After all of that do I generally say Jesus is God. No, I generally say Jesus is the Son of God. Why? Jesus (flesh) was God and man. So I do make that distinction.

Was Jesus one person or two?
Was Jesus only flesh??

Threads like this are useless and JWs magnetize their drooling little selves to them to sew doubt.

So I've noticed.
And it's really easy to reconcile scripture when you have the truth.
The reformed make a mess of scripture because they insist on changing God.
Non Christians do the same....
because THEY do not understand scripture....
they must change it to suit what they CAN understand.
Is God understandable?
Are His ways our ways?

Start a thread on Did Jesus' blood pay for your sins- or do JWs pay for your own sins with your physical death so that you are resurrected sinless because you died- ---Which one is it? and crickets...
If they can't understand what Jesus did- why expect them to know who He is?
Is the Word, God?
YES!
Is it hard to grasp? Yep. Do we walk by faith not by sight? Yes.
Should we change the bible so God makes better sense to us?

I find it easy to grasp.
And I find your entire post rather confusing.....
You are a JW
You aren't a JW

No matter.
I dislike debating the Divinity of Jesus because I feel it shouldn't be allowed
on Christian Forums....But I'm not in charge...
but I can opt to stop discussing this really soon.

 

[GodsGrace]

No idea why you are saying this to me. I don't doubt that the Word became flesh is Jesus and the Word was God.
That post was about what the SCRIPTURES say about when Jesus was begotten.
The Nicene Creed uses eternally begotten which is NOT scriptural and is certainly NOT a necessary belief to be a CHRISTIAN!
It is NOT necessary at all.
I'm sorry but people like you who insist on made- made creedal wording are the reason for so much confusion and strife. Stick to the scriptures and you wont have to try to defend something manmade. Many many Christians do not agree with that part of the creed.
There is zero need to insist that a creed is 100% correct- it is wholly unnecessary to the belief that Jesus is God's Son and the Word was God from eternity.

I have never heard that one. I know Jws say at baptism He became the Christ, and wasn't Christ the Lord at birth as the angel announced---- but seriously who listens to them? They say a lot of things that are stupid.

Again, you do not understand the discussion.

??? maybe you missed this post to you---

-https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/jesus-is-god.70261/page-20#post-2121885

No time PS95.
If you're going to post to me, it has to be very clear.
Maybe because I don't really like to discuss this.
Don't know how I even got involved.

 

[Behold]

Post #430

No one is denying that Jesus exists as the word by whom the Father created all things

John 1:10 says that Jesus "made the world".

"world" = Earth.


"Made the world".

= Created it.

Colossians 1:16 confirms this.

so, we see that Jesus is the "Word was God". John 1.. who "made the world" : John 1:10, who is "GOD manifested in the Flesh" as "the WORD became (virgin born) flesh and dwelt among us"".

 

[GodsGrace]

No idea why you are saying this to me. I don't doubt that the Word became flesh is Jesus and the Word was God.
That post was about what the SCRIPTURES say about when Jesus was begotten.

Jesus WAS begotten.
No one's fault if English speaking persons don't know what begotten means.
It was understood when it was written very soon after Jesus ascension.
Also, it took a long time before the Trinity was fully explained.
It wasn't easy for the early Christians to understand Jesus.
Creeds were important to reject gnostic ideas.
And to clarify Christian beliefs.

I know what begotten means...
so no problem for me.

I DO hate that word due to its being misunderstood.

The Nicene Creed uses eternally begotten which is NOT scriptural and is certainly NOT a necessary belief to be a CHRISTIAN!
It is NOT necessary at all.
I'm sorry but people like you who insist on made- made creedal wording are the reason for so much confusion and strife. Stick to the scriptures and you wont have to try to defend something manmade. Many many Christians do not agree with that part of the creed.
There is zero need to insist that a creed is 100% correct- it is wholly unnecessary to the belief that Jesus is God's Son and the Word was God from eternity.

I have never heard that one. I know Jws say at baptism He became the Christ, and wasn't Christ the Lord at birth as the angel announced---- but seriously who listens to them? They say a lot of things that are stupid.

Again, you do not understand the discussion.

??? maybe you missed this post to you---

-https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/jesus-is-god.70261/page-20#post-2121885

 

[GodsGrace]

[Jhn 3:2 KJV] 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

What do you mean?
What's your point?
Is God also with YOU?
Then what's the difference?

 

[Waiting on him]

God with Jesus

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Would also be "God with us"

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Clearly if Jesus was always God or ever God he would not need to receive the Spirit of God. Ever.

 

[Waiting on him]

John 1:10

It says that Jesus "made the world"...........see also Colossians 1:16

Who is that one?

= God created.

You need to be asking yourself, which world.

 

[PS95]

I remember way back when the JWs used to state that Jesus was an angel.
And He might have been called such in Exodus in the burning bush.
But, of course, they didn't mean that angel---which was God AND an angel.
God, in 2 persons is all over the OT.

Nowadays they claim Jesus is the Son of God.
Which He also is....
so the lines have been blurred.

Jws teach Jesus is Michael the archangel. They also use Son of God- because to them Michael was the first angel created. Their books say that God put Michael's life force into Mary's egg. AND that Michael in heaven went out of existence when that happened.. AND that Jesus is dead forever-- body gone- AND Michaels life force went back to heaven so that Jehovah could re-create Michael. This is all fully documented!
So if your head didn't burst yet-- yes they are VERY WONG.

What is the difference between God and Son of God?
A Son of God is still God.....

There is a difference. One has become flesh and has a MOTHER. Mary is not the mother of God- She is the mother of God's Son.

The problem here is that Jesus is NOT a created being..so SON OF GOD might be a little confusing to some reading along.

JESUS IS GOD.
Period.

............

I'm going to go back and reply to your questions....
which will be an effort in fuitility....but I have some time.

I really don't care what one wants to believe about Jesus...
they'll take it up with God.

HERE is what I care about:
The definition of the word CHRISTIAN.

You see PS95 Christian means something very specific.
One must believe that Jesus is God
One must believe in the Trinity

Otherwise, one cannot call himself a Christian.

That is your opinion. The bible doesn't say that. We must believe that Jesus is the Son of God. The Word was God who became flesh as the SON OF GOD.

The Christian faith was created 2 thousand years ago..
NOT in the 1800's by some heretic that couldn't read or write Greek but thought he did.
And the odd persons that followed his belief system.

Some other persons that started their own religion are:
MUHAMMAD
JOHN SMITH
ELLEN WHITE
incl of course CHARLES RUSSELL
and others.

The above might be saved
but they are not Christian.

I really don't appreciate this lecture.
You can not be SAVED and NOT BE A CHRISTIAN. LOL
JWS are not saved because they deny Christ- who He is and What He did. They simply do not know Him. You have no idea what I am even talking about. Most don't. There is a whole lot more to that twisted religion than no trinity. It is a mind control cult.

Now, if you want to teach all of us just how to understand eternally begotten and where it came from- go right ahead. In my bible it says nothing about that. If you give equal weight to the EFC's and the scriptures you will have a convoluted mess for doctrines. they were all weeding through it- just like we are. They don't all agree that's for sure, and if you are the tiniest bit honest here you will admit that.
The devil is in the details- The eternally begotten is a confusing concept.

Jesus WAS begotten.
No one's fault if English speaking persons don't know what begotten means.
It was understood when it was written very soon after Jesus ascension.
Also, it took a long time before the Trinity was fully explained.
It wasn't easy for the early Christians to understand Jesus.
Creeds were important to reject gnostic ideas.
And to clarify Christian beliefs.

I know what begotten means...
so no problem for me.

I DO hate that word due to its being misunderstood.

I agree Jesus was begotten!! I know what it means....cut me a break. Seems you dont.
You think the Word of God was begotten and that happened in eternity? I don't. Or maybe you should enlighten us here since we are so stupid..

 

[PS95]

Couldn't just reply could you PS95?
Because if you replied honesty, you'd have to stop being a JW.


Why does God have to make sense to your finite mind?
Do you think an ant understands YOU??

The WORD was God.
Find out what LOGOS means.
I'm not going to teach you...
only the Holy Spirit can.

The WORD was a part of God.
IT became flesh.

Sad that you cannot understand this because it's what the bible teaches.


There is only ONE GOD.
I'm sure you've read the shema...
Deuteronomy 6:4
4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

Maybe YOU believe in a big god and a little god.
Christians believe in ONE GOD.

Seems that He can.
Please see Exodus 3:2-6
2 The angel of the LORD appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.
3 So Moses said, "I must turn aside now and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up."
4 When the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am."
5 Then He said, "Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."
6 He said also, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.


The angel of the LORD appeared to Moses.
Who was the angel?
The angel, OR the LORD saw that Moses turned aside.
Was the angel God?
The LORD saw that he turned back to look.
and GOD called to him from the midst of the bush.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Perhaps you could post scripture instead of listing it?
Listing a scripture explains NOTHING.

Jesus created EVERYTHING....
NOTHING was created without Him.
John 1:3
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing * came into being that has come into being.

Jesus is the WORD of God.
The spoken WORD created everything.

Perhaps you should have posted Isaiah 44:24.


What's your point?
Was Jesus the ultimate revelation of God?

Calvinists also have to refer to the OT many times.
All that poetic language suits their odd belief system much better than the
literal teachings of Jesus and the NT writers.


No scripture.
Amazing.
Jesus had an earthly father...
but it was not His biological father.
GOD is the biological father of Jesus.
Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

If YOU have a son...
will he be human?

Do you know what begotten means?
Or do you make the same mistake all English speaking persons make?


And there you have it.
No other verse should be necessary.

Since Jesus IS God,,,,you've seen God,
but not the Father.
Ah. The beauty of the Trinity.

Thanks for that PS...
so thoughtful of you.

Thanks again.
so thoughtful of you.
Let's add that latreia worship is due ONLY to God.



Was Jesus one person or two?
Was Jesus only flesh??

So I've noticed.
And it's really easy to reconcile scripture when you have the truth.
The reformed make a mess of scripture because they insist on changing God.
Non Christians do the same....
because THEY do not understand scripture....
they must change it to suit what they CAN understand.
Is God understandable?
Are His ways our ways?

I find it easy to grasp.
And I find your entire post rather confusing.....
You are a JW
You aren't a JW

No matter.
I dislike debating the Divinity of Jesus because I feel it shouldn't be allowed
on Christian Forums....But I'm not in charge...
but I can opt to stop discussing this really soon.

Wow- you totally need to take a break. Ever hear of playing devils advocate? I was answering the questions that others have. You are really misconstruing my meaning here. Woweee haha
Call me a JW? This is so messed up, GG! You owe me an apology.
Your brain sounds frazzled!!!! How many times do I have to tell you- I just don't accept eternally begotten-MANY DONT/. SO WHAT>-
I accept that The Word was God who became flesh = Jesus. You are an accusatory machine. Are you born of God's Spirit?
God will never ask me if I believe the Word was eternally begotten. Never!
That's not what makes a Christian. You are being ridiculous.. lol

 

[Behold]

You need to be asking yourself, which world.

The verse explains it.

Jesus was in the = world that He made.

Colossians 1:16 confirms it.

 

[Muna]

Clearly if Jesus was always God or ever God he would not need to receive the Spirit of God. Ever.

Not true, the Word was made flesh, he was specifically made so being made lower than the angels (who do not die) for the very suffering of death, he lived by the Father, doing his works by the Father who anointed him.

 

[Hiddenthings]

LOL Hiddenthings- Does Rev say that the souls of those martyred are under the altar in heaven speaking? YES or NO?
You can't just give a yes or no... EVER.

Not unlike the blood of Abel crying out.

The key is being able to discern the symbolism, otherwise, all that remains is a pile of emojis and bold text.

If you take it literally, you run into several obvious problems.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Sure Hidden.
Maybe you could post when you've had your morning coffee.

Do you believe Jesus completely ceased to exist 3 days before being raised?