Jesus!

[Oddawll2]

If these observations are meant to suggest that the Gospels are contradicting each other, think again, then try to harmonize the accounts.

1. It was early in the morning of the first day of the week (what we call Sunday) "when the sabbath was past" (Mark) and all the Gospels agree.

2. However, John focuses on Mary Magdalene, Matthew on Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" (the mother of James), Mark adds Salome to the list, and Luke gives us the complete picture -- "they" meaning "the women also, which came with him from Galilee" (as stated in his previous chapter).

3. Matthew identifies the one angel (wearing a long white garment and radiating light) who rolled away the stone from the door, and Mark calls him a "young man" who was then found sitting. Luke indicates that a second angel joined him (shortly thereafter) to address all the women, and John says that these two angels spoke to Mary later on, after Peter and John had viewed the empty tomb and departed.

So to sum up:

1. Early in the morning on the first day of the week, all the women who had accompanied Jesus came with prepared sweet spices to anoint (embalm) Christ, presuming that His body was still in the tomb. Two angels (one of which had rolled away the stone) met them within the tomb and informed them that Christ was risen, and told them to go quickly to inform the other disciples.

2. All the women departed quickly as urged by the angels, but Mary Magdalene probably ran the fastest, although she informed Peter and John that Christ was MISSING (not risen) -- "They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him", and returned with them to the tomb.

3. Peter and John also discovered that the tomb was empty, and believed that Christ was risen, then departed (presumably to inform the other disciples). However Mary Magdalene had still not believed that He was risen, and stood weeping outside, while thinking that someone had laid Christ somewhere else. Even though the angels had told her earlier (along with the other women) she had simply not believed up to that point, so Christ appeared to her and settled her doubts. But before He appeared those two angels came and asked Mary why she was weeping, and when she turned around she saw the Lord.

It is generally assumed that Mary Magdalene was the first to believe that Christ was risen, when actually she was the last among the women (just as Thomas was the last among the apostles).

As another poster has said, witnesses don't normally agree on the details, so I would expect the details to vary. The editors who collected the manuscripts must have noticed the variation. One might wonder why they included the variations. Since they did not erase the variation, they must have decided the variation is a good thing.

I would wonder about the difference between a man and an angel. Why would one witness say man, and another witness say angel.

I worked for thirty years as office equipment repair person. In the mid 1970's I had a service call at shrine or holy site. I'm not sure what to call it.

The day before I arrived to work on their office equipment, they had had some sort of vision. Most of the people, only one was a man, were excited about how the previous day Saint Joseph had appeared to them.

The office manager, the lady who had called to have me fix her copy machine, was not so sure about what she had seen. I think she saw nothing, but didn't want to say so.

This sighting of Saint Joseph reminds me of the variation of details found in the tomb story in the Bible. Everything from nothing, the office manager, to Saint Joseph in sparkly robes.

 

[justbyfaith]

the bible is the word of God how could it possibly have errors or miss translations. God forbid that Gods word be in error.

The kjv Bible is the word of God.

The NASB and the NIV (and perhaps others also) are watered-down counterfeits that do not teach the same thing as the kjv.

 

[101G]

The English looks ambiguous here, but it's impossible for the Greek to mean that Salome was Mary's daughter ('Salome' would have to be in the genitive case).




But it was normal practice to use terms like these ("the mother of X"; "the mother of Y") to distinguish between different women of the same name - and there were hundreds of Marys in Palestine. (The names Joseph, James and Jesus were equally common)

First thanks for the reply,
yes this is also true, but the big tip off to me was that the "Mother" of Zebedee's children was NEVER mention as Zebedee wife.

 

[bbyrd009]

The kjv Bible is the word of God.

and then you woke up, as you discover when you try to verify that lie ok, no offense

 

[justbyfaith]

and then you woke up, as you discover when you try to verify that lie ok, no offense

It is no lie...but it is something that you have to accept on faith.

For the way to life is narrow, and few there be that find it...Matthew 7:13-14.

 

[Oddawll2]

The kjv Bible is the word of God.

The NASB and the NIV (and perhaps others also) are watered-down counterfeits that do not teach the same thing as the kjv.

A book by Adam Nicolson, God's Secretaries, The Making of the King James Bible is a book about the fifty men who translated the Bible into English for King James.

See Nicolson in a CSpan video.

God's Secretaries King James Bible, May 21 2003 | Video | C-SPAN.org

 

[justbyfaith]

To me it doesn't matter who they were...they were the instruments of the Lord in bringing about a translation that has stood the test of time.

It is a part of my own personal testimony that I began with the kjv, and then someone suggested that I try a different translation, which I did. And when I did, my walk with the Lord began to go downhill from there, until about 27 years later, when, after having read a great many translations through while being in a state of lukewarm Christianity, I returned to the kjv...and my walk with the Lord began again to look upward as pertained to the level of holiness and spiritual temperature that I now live by because I am exhorted more perfectly to live that way since I am not reading a watered-down translation any more.

And I don't know if this makes any sense...but at the same time I consider myself to be a greater sinner than before, while, as I look at my outward behaviour I see a difference for the better.

In me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells no good thing...while who I am in Christ, the new man, is the person who has control of my practical daily living and therefore in my practical life I am living more like Christ, while at the same time I know that it is a trustworthy saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

The more I live the Christian life, the more I see that it is about Jesus being Lord...that if I am the one living my life it is going to be a life of sinning...but if I let Jesus be the Lord of my life, and let Him live His life in me and through me...Galatians 2:20...then my practical life will be one of holiness, without which no man shall see Him...Hebrews 12:14.

 

[bbyrd009]

It is no lie...but it is something that you have to accept on faith.

For the way to life is narrow, and few there be that find it...Matthew 7:13-14.

yes it is a lie, as you would discover had you tried to Quote it, and it is not something i am even asking you to accept on faith, see, you cannot make even a logical argument from your own Book stand up on a matter you are asking me to accept on faith?

11they heard the word, and then searched the Scriptures to verify it

or you might even conduct a little thought experiment here, but my writing style is admissible evidence now too, so you have to be able to pretend that...um, my next post down there came in a different context than this, too, out of the blue say, and contemplate (out loud if you like) what you would have to tell a cop when he asks you if i gave you my word in the following manner...

 

[bbyrd009]

i give you my word that the Bible is not the Word

 

[justbyfaith]

yes it is a lie, as you would discover had you tried to Quote it, and it is not something i am even asking you to accept on faith, see, you cannot make even a logical argument from your own Book stand up on a matter you are asking me to accept on faith?

11they heard the word, and then searched the Scriptures to verify it

or you might even conduct a little thought experiment here, but my writing style is admissible evidence now too, so you have to be able to pretend that...um, my next post down there came in a different context than this, too, out of the blue say, and contemplate (out loud if you like) what you would have to tell a cop when he asks you if i gave you my word in the following manner...

i give you my word that the Bible is not the Word

These statements coming from someone who doesn't believe that Jesus died for his sins...how can you even have the Holy Spirit when you do not have faith in the very basics?

You are not a credible source to be drawing my opinions from...

And, btw, it is no lie that the kjv is the word of the Lord...you can dispute that all you want, but then again, you are not a credible source to even be listening to.

 

[Enoch111]

As another poster has said, witnesses don't normally agree on the details, so I would expect the details to vary.

The funny thing is that none of the Gospel writers was actually an eye-witness to the scene with the angels and the women. John visited the empty tomb well after that dialogue. But since we know that the Gospels were divinely inspired, it would appear that the Holy Spirit led each writer to put down the record as we find it. Probably so that Christians would need to make an effort to harmonize the accounts.

 

[Oddawll2]

To me it doesn't matter who they were...they were the instruments of the Lord in bringing about a translation that has stood the test of time.

It is a part of my own personal testimony that I began with the kjv, and then someone suggested that I try a different translation, which I did. And when I did, my walk with the Lord began to go downhill from there, until about 27 years later, when, after having read a great many translations through while being in a state of lukewarm Christianity, I returned to the kjv...and my walk with the Lord began again to look upward as pertained to the level of holiness and spiritual temperature that I now live by because I am exhorted more perfectly to live that way since I am not reading a watered-down translation any more.

And I don't know if this makes any sense...but at the same time I consider myself to be a greater sinner than before, while, as I look at my outward behaviour I see a difference for the better.

In me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells no good thing...while who I am in Christ, the new man, is the person who has control of my practical daily living and therefore in my practical life I am living more like Christ, while at the same time I know that it is a trustworthy saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

The more I live the Christian life, the more I see that it is about Jesus being Lord...that if I am the one living my life it is going to be a life of sinning...but if I let Jesus be the Lord of my life, and let Him live His life in me and through me...Galatians 2:20...then my practical life will be one of holiness, without which no man shall see Him...Hebrews 12:14.

I can't say for sure, but I think that Nicolson would agree that the King James Version is the right translation for you.

Have you thought of learning Greek, so you can read the Septuagint? Or maybe Latin, so you can read the Vulgate?

 

[Oddawll2]

The funny thing is that none of the Gospel writers was actually an eye-witness to the scene with the angels and the women. John visited the empty tomb well after that dialogue. But since we know that the Gospels were divinely inspired, it would appear that the Holy Spirit led each writer to put down the record as we find it. Probably so that Christians would need to make an effort to harmonize the accounts.

With view toward harmonization, in Mark the women listen to the man in the tomb. He tells them that Jesus has risen and that they should so inform the disciples. The women “said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.”

In the New International Version, the story ends there. I assume that is because the rest of the text, which is in the King James Version, is not in the oldest manuscripts.

 

[Enoch111]

The women “said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.”

That's why it is better to stick to the KJV:

And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any [man]; for they were afraid. (Mk 16:8)

Please note that "man" is in italics and may be omitted.

But here is what Matthew recorded: And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. (Mt 28:8)

Since Scripture cannot contradict itself, Mark was telling us that because the women were afraid, they did not mention anything to anyone outside their circle (implied). But Matthew tells us that they were filled with both fear and "great joy", and then ran to tell the disciples that Christ was risen.

Once again we see how critical it is to properly harmonize and then interpret Scripture.

 

[mjrhealth]

The kjv Bible is the word of God.

The NASB and the NIV (and perhaps others also) are watered-down counterfeits that do not teach the same thing as the kjv.

Oh so that is how it is, you have picked your word of God and every ones eles is wrong....

From the KJV

Pro 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Pro 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
Pro 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
Pro 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
Pro 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
Pro 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
Pro 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
Pro 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
Pro 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
Pro 1:30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
Pro 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
Pro 1:32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

as Jesus put it

Luk 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luk 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Luk 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

and again

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

and again

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

sand still men refuse

 

[bbyrd009]

These statements coming from someone who doesn't believe that Jesus died for his sins...how can you even have the Holy Spirit when you do not have faith in the very basics?

you are answering a Q with a Q here, and i have made it plain elsewhere that i believe Christ died for my sins

You are not a credible source to be drawing my opinions from...

well that remains to be seen i guess, i would say now is your chance?

And, btw, it is no lie that the kjv is the word of the Lord...you can dispute that all you want, but then again, you are not a credible source to even be listening to.

ya you said that already but see you have not offered any rebuttal here at all, besides "nya nya" so far ok.
Maybe you are right, and They heard the word and then searched the Scriptures to verify it is irrelevant or something,
but regardless of that imo the point about my word is plain enough i guess now,
and it's ok with me if you believe that the Book is Word if you want anyway ok. Call it Holy too if you like, idc.
Call it the Book of Truth even


Bc you are right i guess, i am not a credible source, but we share a credible source, huh
so you could go to That instead of...this, whenever you are ready, ok, and we could see
God~Breathed is in There for a reason i guess

 

[Deborah_]

With view toward harmonization, in Mark the women listen to the man in the tomb. He tells them that Jesus has risen and that they should so inform the disciples. The women “said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.”

In the New International Version, the story ends there. I assume that is because the rest of the text, which is in the King James Version, is not in the oldest manuscripts.

Correct. But we know from the other gospels that although they didn't tell anyone and everyone, they did in fact report their discovery to the other disciples. (The last section of Mark 16 reads very much like a summary of the other gospels, added to 'round off' Mark's abrupt ending)
Compare the wording in Mark 1:44, where Jesus tells the healed leper, "Don't tell this to anyone. But go, show, yourself to the priest..." "Not telling anyone" doesn't seem to exclude reporting an event to those people who have a right to know.

 

[bbyrd009]

As another poster has said, witnesses don't normally agree on the details, so I would expect the details to vary.

fwiw imo they are installed for a reason, to communicate information that must be sought. Once one has got away from this perspective of 'history' and 'eyewitnesses' to it and etc, at least

 

[justbyfaith]

Oh so that is how it is, you have picked your word of God and every ones eles is wrong....

From the KJV

Pro 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Pro 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
Pro 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
Pro 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
Pro 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
Pro 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
Pro 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
Pro 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
Pro 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
Pro 1:30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
Pro 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
Pro 1:32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

as Jesus put it

Luk 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luk 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Luk 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

and again

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

and again

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

sand still men refuse

All of this definitely applies to those who go to other translations (then the kjv) with itching ears.

Maybe you are right, and They heard the word and then searched the Scriptures to verify it is irrelevant or something,

It certainly is not irrelevant. If someone wants to do an extensive study on the many verses where in the NIV and other translations like it, the message is watered down as compared to the kjv, I do not believe that they will find differently than I have, that the NIV and other translations are indeed watered down as compared to the kjv. Searching the scriptures to verify what I have said will serve only to verify what I have said, if you go to the task with reliance on the Holy Spirit; seeking His answer to the question from the throne room.

 

[bbyrd009]

Searching the scriptures to verify what I have said will serve only to verify what I have said

then start Quoting imo and let's see, he said to the believer who still does not realize what testifying of himself means
iow no, they will not verify what you have said, in fact the opposite is more likely true, but there's only one way to find out right
Quote Bible is Word from any verse you like, or bam give us a witness or two too, and make your case already; verify what you have said iow, in the same manner that you say it will be verified, so that i and the cloud of witnesses around us may learn and be taught this, and ty