jn 4:42 The Saviour of the World

[savedbygrace57]

http://bible.logos.com/passage/kjv/Mat 1.21

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. His ministry was to the JEWS!!!

Wrong again..1 tim 3: 16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. He came to give [ eternal] Life unto the World, not Jews only jn 3: 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Jesus had people to save in the World Jn 6: 51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. World means jew and gentile people.. Your just deceived by False teaching if you believe matt 1 21 is limited to jews..besides most of the jews Jesus spoke with during his ministry were of their father the devil jn 8: 44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. And Jesus did not come to save them as His People, but in fact gave them no hope of escaping the damnation of hell matt 23: 31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? These people werent Jesus people as in matt 1 21 sorry..

 

[Brother Mike]

The reason why I make no sense to you most of the time is because your spiritually blind to the Truth i am witnessing to, its foolishness to the natural mind 1 cor 2:

I was starting to wonder what was going on. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

[logabe]

It is said by some, that Jesus "failed" in the mission to "seek and to save that which is lost." God cannot fail. Consider this briefly: If it were really within God's Power to do so, would He, or would He not save every man? Jas 4:17 says, 17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good (Save, Heal, Deliver) and doeth it NOT, to him it is Sin." The teachers of religion have implied from the very beginning that God "missed the mark (didn't know what He was doing)," First in the creation of the devil, then Adam, then Israel and finally, the Church. If we believe what they say concerning the multitudes of "the lost," Jesus either will not or cannot save the majority of sinners. As I stated, if He could do good and didn't do it, He would be guilty of Sin (Jas 4:17). The only conclusion to Religion's pitiful Gospel is, that "He can't." In either case Christ misses the mark according to "their gospel." His mission becomes a failure, and the devil wins more souls and is a greater victor than our Savior. And even beyond that, they proudly inform us that these same sinners (whom God Himself cannot save, even if He wanted to) can Save themselves by simply asking Jesus to come into their hearts (say the magic words). In other words, the Sinner has more Sovereign Authority and Power to Save than even the Lord Himself. When you really sit down and think about this, it makes you wonder who they think is the real Savior? Man or God? This is a humanistic gospel, "another" gospel if you please! This doctrine is aimed at exalting the flesh and the devil, while at the same time denying the sovereign Lordship of Jesus Christ. This kind of Jesus looks more like a king Saul (who never did find and save his fathers strays) than David, the good shepherd. The gospel of the kingdom however, presents an able, and willing Christ "who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil (Acts 10:38) Logabe

 

[Deadwheat1224]

"It is said by some, that Jesus "failed" in the mission to "seek and to save that which is lost." God cannot fail.Consider this briefly: If it were really within God's Power to do so, would He, or would He not save every man?"I Disagree... there's something called free-will, in which we choose whether we receive God's grace, which is freely given to all. It is not a sin that God doesn't save everyone and could, its our choice. God can do all things... except contradict himself, and though all have the ability to be "saved" if they so choose to accept it, God does not have ability to force them to, which is against his nature. God still tries to save them, and still wants them to be saved, because he loves them."The teachers of religion have implied from the very beginning that God "missed the mark (didn't know what He was doing),"I don't know any credible religious teacher who would actually say this...

 

[logabe]

The idea that God cannot do something, or that God is limited in His ability, is fairly common among Christians. Many think that God's ability to act is limited by man's “free will.” People often think that God either cannot override man's will or that He is incapable of making man change his will to conform to the will of God. So what is it that prevents God from saving all mankind? 2 Peter 3:9 says, that He is not willing that any should be lost, or perish. Thus, if any are lost, it is not because it is the will of God. The Apostle Paul says in 1 Tim. 2:4 that God “will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” This, too, defines the will of God for all men. The problem is that evil men seem to thwart God's will, and God seems to be powerless to do anything about it. How powerful is God, anyway? In Isaiah 45:23 God says, “I have sworn by Myself [by my own name] . . . that unto Me every knee will bow and every tongue will swear allegiance to Me.” This is quoted by the apostle Paul in Phil. 2:10, 11, saying, “ at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” The question is this: Is God able to fulfill this oath, or is it an idle boast? God is indeed able to perform His will. Many are now unwilling to go along with the plan, because of ignorance, for if they knew the glory that God had prepared for them, they would not hesitate to avail themselves of the redemption that Jesus has provided by His death on the cross. John's vision in Rev. 5:13, “and every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth, and all that are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying, ‘Blessing and honor, and glory, and power be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and unto the Lamb [Jesus] for the ages of the ages'.” This is a picture of the goal of history and the divine plan for His creation. No one will be grumbling that a tyrant has come to power and ought to be overthrown. All will know the love that God has for them and for all mankind. It is a happy scene. There are no tortured screams coming from an imagined pit of hell. God really is able to save all mankind—and He intends to do it. Logabe

 

[Deadwheat1224]

Logababe,Reading what you just said, I don't think we actually disagree. We just have a different way of expressing it maybe.Thanks for the Dialogue.

 

[Brother Mike]

logabe:

It is said by some, that Jesus "failed" in the mission to "seek and to save that which is lost." God cannot fail.

Brother, to be honest, I only hear sinners talk this way. This is new to me also. Now, God has never failed at anything!!! God does have feelings. He can be happy, He can be agitated, and bless God, we don't want him actually angry. With just a mere Word, He could darken our sun and boil the oceans. He could shout "BOW" and every thing that had knees on earth would hit the dirt. God also can feel sad, and the things He made have a tendency to do as they wish. If anyone has suffered Loss, it has been God. His first creation turned against him, and Adam who was just like him, turned against him. One thing is for sure though, The book of life will be opened, and it's no more fun and games at that point.Now if you believe everyone is getting saved, then you may need to read a little farther. ----------------------------------------------------------------------Deadwheat1224:I am on your page brother!!! Keep it going.

 

[logabe]

Just to confirm Brother Mike what I amtalking about, here is a link:http://www.firstcongucc.org/Texts/pdf_files/Why_Jesus_failed.pdf Most Christians don't really understand what Jesus actually done for them 2000yrs. ago. "The sinner is not redeemed because he repents, BUT IS CALLED UPON TO REPENT BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN REDEEMED." This means … THE ENTIRE CREATION ( ALL OF MANKIND ) HAS BEEN RECONCILED TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. IT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED! So … What next? The scriptures tell us that the message of reconciliation is to come to every man in his own order. They testify to the fact that ALL WILL BE MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST! What remains is for man to go through the process of salvation, which includes: JUSTIFICATION, SANCTIFICATION, AND GLORIFICATION! But remember … This process of salvation is made possible only because GOD WAS IN CHRIST RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF. In the mind of God we are already reconciled to Him. The sin debt has been paid in full by the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST! What remains is for us to BECOME WHAT GOD HAS DECLARED US TO BE! He has imputed ( to attribute or ascribe ) to us His righteousness. In essence, He has given us His righteousness on credit, and based on our faith in the Son of God. As we go through the process of SONSHIP ( the salvation process of being made into a fully mature son of God ), and as God writes His laws on our hearts, WE ARE BECOMING RIGHTEOUS! NO … we are not earning righteousness, but rather we are God’s workmanship, and what is taking place is a work of the Spirit, in which God is bringing our condition up to the level of our position, and bringing our state ( of being ) up to the level of our standing in Him! 2nd Cor. 5:20-21, 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray in Christ’s stead, BE RECONCILED TO GOD.21 For He has made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him … We now have the ministry of reconcilation...what for?So in the ages to come He will use us to show Hisexceeding riches of His Grace in His Kindness towardus through Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:7). We are becoming reconcilers for the purpose of beingused in the ages to come, to let lost people know...Godis not mad @ them and they can come home because Jesus paid their debt in full. Now that's good news folks. Logabe

 

[epistemaniac]

Universalism is a false gospel, no matter how you dress it up... sure it sounds good to itching ears, and is very politically correct in these days to say that God is not judgmental and that one day everyone will be saved, even Satan... but God's love never negates His wrath... they both exist in God and those who do not believe, Jesus specifically said, are condemned... Joh 3:18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."So I can either take your word for it, or I can take Jesus'... I will opt for the latter...blessings,ken

 

[Deadwheat1224]

I'm not sure who you are responding to, but just a clarification if it happens to be me. I don't think everyone will be saved (especially not satan, who CANNOT be saved). I do however think that everyone has the chance to be saved. And I do believe God to be judgmental in a sense.

 

[logabe]

Ken, I agree with you...Universalism is a falsegospel and Satan isn't going to be saved. I dobelieve...that in the AGES to come everyonewill be in subjection to Jesus Christ. (Heb. 2:6-9) Here the author defines "all" as "everyone." Not all are in subjection to Christ at the present time, but the day is coming when all men everywhere WILL be subject to Him. Meanwhile, the Scripture says, we see that Jesus tasted death for EVERYONE. "He left nothing that is NOT subject to Him. Many Christians today have never really thought about whether Jesus really has this power or not. They assume that He is essentially powerless to save any but the firstfruits, a tiny portion of theharvest, because Jesus will not go against the will of man. But Jesus Himself said in John 12:32 that if He would die upon the cross, He would "draw" all men to Himself. The word "draw" is the Greek word, helkuo, which means "to drag." As used in the New Testament, it always indicates that the one doing the dragging is imposing his will upon the ones being dragged. John 6:44 says no man can come to the Father except the Father DRAG him. John 12:32 says that Jesus will DRAG all men to Himself. John 21:6 speaks of dragging the net to bring the fish to shore. James 2:6 speaks of the civil magistrates, who, in persecuting the Christians, would DRAG them to court. It is apparent, then, that the day will come when God's will is going to be imposed upon all men. He will drag all them to Himself by means of judgment, that is, the lake of fire. He has both the power and the will to do this. John well knew that the purpose of Christ's rulership in His Kingdom was to draw all men to Himself. He wrote in 1 John 2:2, 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. What a marvelous thing that Jesus would die not only for our sins (that is, for us as Christians), but also for the sins of the entire world! Surely the blood has not lost its power since then. Paul told Timothy (1 Tim. 4:10,11) to preach this as well. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.11 These things command and teach. Believers are especially singled out, because their salvation comes first. Theirs will be a greater honor, because they will inherit Life in the Kingdom. But yet, God is the Savior of ALL MEN. No doubt Timothy and others like him did indeed teach this in Asia Minor, for the early Church leaders in the next centuries were faithful to teach these things, as their writings prove. And today we are likewise exhorted to teach these things. Why? Because it is important to understand that God is truly righteous in His judgments. The usual teaching of endless torment makes God unjust. By what standard? By God's standard, as revealed in His law. That is the only righteous standard in the earth. And for this reason we must know of the restoration of all things ( Rom. 8:21-23 ). 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for {our} adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. Logabe

 

[savedbygrace57]

http://bible.logos.com/passage/kjv/1 John 2.2

1 John 2:2,2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.What a marvelous thing that Jesus would die not only for our sins (that is, for us as Christians), but also for the sins of the entire world!

http://bible.logos.com/passage/kjv/1 John 2.2http://bible.logos.com/passage/kjv/1 John 2.2 Jesus christ didnt die for the devil which would include His seed..all those will be confined to the lake of fire.. Matt 25: 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: your teaching a false hope by perverting the scriptures..

 

[Benoni]

What so many of God's people do not see is the Priesthood of God's elect who will be used for the purpose of all people God has not called yet. Acts15:16-18Revelation 1:6

chance[/I] to be saved. And I do believe God to be judgmental in a sense.

 

[savedbygrace57]

to Glory heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. This however excludes the family of the devil..his offspring..God told satan He had a offspring gen 3: 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent [Which was Satan], Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed[offspring] and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. These, the offspring of satan, are not the Sons of God.. As satan was cursed , so too His offspring was cursed in Him.. Thats why Jesus says to them in the last day: Matt 25 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil[satan, serpent and offspring] and his angels:

 

[Christina]

Hey savedbygrace If you are so right please explain the following to me do you remember Samson Jdg 13:24And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the LORD blessed him. Well lets look at Samson, should we. He was from the tribe of Dan who got into Idol worship among other things ...see having your strength in your hair is not a human trait .... Now is it ??? ..... Samson's tribe (Dan) had intermixed with Satan's crew fallen Angels at some point thus Samson had a non human trait of his strength in his hair ..... So according to you these offspring are not of the Elect and can not be saved ..... Would seem you are in direct disagreement with God here ..So excuse me but I will listen to God ... While I would agree that the Satan and the fallen Angels will be destroyed Angels are not flesh You have no basis for claiming that these offspring can not chose to change their hearts and follow Christ...Your theory is completely disproved in the story of Samson We live in a time of grace do you know what that word means ??? You include in in your name yet preach against it in your words ..........Grace does not come from us it is given to us ALL ........

 

[Benoni]

First of all all men are cursed including you and me. All in Adam died; all in Christ will be made alive... so in that sense we are all food for the devil for his food is dust and we were made from dust. Second I have already addressed God's fire and it is not literal fire; the fire comes from God not Satan. Also the words everlasting and forever are from the Latin not the Greek; this is not a big deal for people who believe Latin is alright; but Latin is the language of baby-lon; not of truth.

to Glory heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. This however excludes the family of the devil..his offspring..God told satan He had a offspring gen 3: 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent [Which was Satan], Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed[offspring] and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. These, the offspring of satan, are not the Sons of God.. As satan was cursed , so too His offspring was cursed in Him.. Thats why Jesus says to them in the last day: Matt 25 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil[satan, serpent and offspring] and his angels:

 

[Deadwheat1224]

Latin is the language of baby-lon; not of truth

Oh that's interesting... I didn't know Truth came in only one language. I also don't know anyplace in Scripture where it says that latin is the language of Babylon... in fact, I've heard that Latin is actually the only language that the Devil hates.

 

[savedbygrace57]

benoi says:

First of all all men are cursed including you and me.

you may be cursed, i can believe that, but not any whom Christ became a curse in their behal and in their stead: gal 3: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Sorry, but God didnt make Christ a curse, and too those whom He was made a curse for..

 

[Christina]

child grew, and the LORD blessed him.[/U] Well lets look at Samson, should we. He was from the tribe of Dan who got into Idol worship among other things ...see having your strength in your hair is not a human trait .... Now is it ??? ..... Samson's tribe (Dan) had intermixed with Satan's crew fallen Angels at some point thus Samson had a non human trait of his strength in his hair ..... So according to you these offspring are not of the Elect and can not be saved ..... Would seem you are in direct disagreement with God here ..So excuse me but I will listen to God ... While I would agree that the Satan and the fallen Angels will be destroyed Angels are not flesh You have no basis for claiming that these offspring can not chose to change their hearts and follow Christ...Your theory is completely disproved in the story of Samson We live in a time of grace do you know what that word means ??? You include in in your name yet preach against it in your words ..........Grace does not come from us it is given to us ALL ........

You seem to be ignoring my post Saved57 ...... Which proves the point that most who are intent on following their own doctrine rather than Gods ..when proved wrong in Gods Word ingnore it. Or twist it.So they can hang on to their own false believes ... And still try to claim they are right the arragance of men showing through...... It is why we have a famine for the true Word of GodAmos 8:11-12

 

[Benoni]

It comes in many ways truth; that is true; but so does error. It does not say Latin comes from Babylon; you Babylon is not literal either; it speaks of the false religious system. The problem with carnal religious man is he sticks his carnal nose in places that he should not. Much of what people believe today in the negative in Scripture comes from the dark ages of man’s religious influence. All the doom and gloom in God’s Word comes from the Latin; words like eternal, everlasting, forever and ever are all from Latin influence.