JOHN'S BAPTISM

[Doug]

good answer Larry

 

[amadeus]

So then you do not see "water baptism" as necessary?? Because if you say you do see it as Jesus command then, there is no more "one baptism"- it becomes two. if you say you do not find it to be necessary then you outwardly disobey Jesus command TO be baptized, and His disciples DID baptize many in water. JMO ♥

Was Jesus speaking in this verse of immersion in water or in the Holy Spirit? He only speaks of one:

"And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." Matt 20:23

The water [H2O] baptism is it would seem to me to be only a type of shadows the real thing. All through the OT and even in even the NT there are types and shadows to help us understand but there is also the real thing. If we search the scriptures we will find even more the two baptisms described. In the following verse alone there are seemingly three:

"I indeed baptize you with [1] water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with [2] the Holy Ghost, and [3] with fire" Matt 3:11


Is this another one?

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Rom 6:3


Yet we these several possibilities and probably others in scripture how can we then explain what the Apostle Paul wrote?

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Eph 4:4-5

He certainly was NOT speaking of H2O baptism. What is it we need to do in order to become like Him? We need to have Him in us and we need to be in Him. This is necessarily a spiritual thing, is it not? This is necessarily as a result of the one baptism of which Paul writes, is it not?

 

[Enoch111]

This is necessarily as a result of the one baptism of which Paul writes, is it not?

When Paul speaks of "one baptism" the context makes it clear that it is the baptism WITH the Holy Spirit.

But when Christ COMMANDS water baptism, it is clear that this is Christian baptism, which is meant to confirm that the individual has been baptized with the Spirit. So in Acts 2 we see both baptisms at work -- the gift of the Holy Ghost, as well as Christian baptism.

That there are several baptism mentioned in Scripture is clear from this verse: Of the doctrine of baptisms, [PLURAL] and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (Heb 6:2). These doctrines, as Paul says, are foundational.

It is critical to note that throughout the Acts of the Apostles, Christian baptism was administered immediately after people were saved. That has not changed in the least (although denominations have changed everything). And even many Baptists are not baptized immediately.

 

[Nancy]

Was Jesus speaking in this verse of immersion in water or in the Holy Spirit? He only speaks of one:

"And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." Matt 20:23

The water [H2O] baptism is it would seem to me to be only a type of shadows the real thing. All through the OT and even in even the NT there are types and shadows to help us understand but there is also the real thing. If we search the scriptures we will find even more the two baptisms described. In the following verse alone there are seemingly three:

"I indeed baptize you with [1] water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with [2] the Holy Ghost, and [3] with fire" Matt 3:11


Is this another one?

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Rom 6:3


Yet we these several possibilities and probably others in scripture how can we then explain what the Apostle Paul wrote?

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Eph 4:4-5

He certainly was NOT speaking of H2O baptism. What is it we need to do in order to become like Him? We need to have Him in us and we need to be in Him. This is necessarily a spiritual thing, is it not? This is necessarily as a result of the one baptism of which Paul writes, is it not?

I don't know Amadeus, I have been taught that we will have the H.S. living inside us the second we receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. I don't understand the baptism in the Holy Spirit, not how it is supposed to work or how one gets this. If it has something to do with being pushed on the forehead to fall down, then - been there done that. Did not fall. Did not start speaking in a language and no fire lit upon my head. I can say that the changes in my life have been huge and continue...I have no answer to that and it makes me sometimes feel unsaved so, maybe there is something to this individual atonement thing, I just do not know

 

[Episkopos]

I don't know Amadeus, I have been taught that we will have the H.S. living inside us the second we receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. I don't understand the baptism in the Holy Spirit, not how it is supposed to work or how one gets this. If it has something to do with being pushed on the forehead to fall down, then - been there done that. Did not fall. Did not start speaking in a language and no fire lit upon my head. I can say that the changes in my life have been huge and continue...I have no answer to that and it makes me sometimes feel unsaved so, maybe there is something to this individual atonement thing, I just do not know

The baptism of the Spirit is us being immersed in the Spirit. This isn't just receiving Jesus inwardly. But there are a lot of misconceptions about this, of course.

Being baptized in the Spirit is NOT just speaking in tongues....although this could be something that accompanies Spirit baptism.

In order to be FILLED with the Spirit...one needs to be immersed in Spirit.

So then how can we be filled by being immersed?

When we are surrounded by the Spirit...the life of the Spirit is DRAWN out of us....so that we become filled to overflowing.

 

[amadeus]

When Paul speaks of "one baptism" the context makes it clear that it is the baptism WITH the Holy Spirit.

This "one" would be the important one no matter how we read the others or what we do with them. On this we agree.

But when Christ COMMANDS water baptism, it is clear that this is Christian baptism, which is meant to confirm that the individual has been baptized with the Spirit. So in Acts 2 we see both baptisms at work -- the gift of the Holy Ghost, as well as Christian baptism.

I have been water baptized not less than three times. Must a person be water baptized? That is another question I won't try to answer. That a believer should be baptized in water when he has the opportunity I would strongly recommend if for no other reason than to imitate Jesus. Since I've been triple watered it does not apply to me personally. Others must make up their own minds.

That there are several baptism mentioned in Scripture is clear from this verse: Of the doctrine of baptisms, [PLURAL] and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (Heb 6:2). These doctrines, as Paul says, are foundational.

That the doctrines are foundational I agree but I doubt that most people make a serious effort to understood those six much less what it means to go on from them to perfection. I have studied and prayed on them but not lately so I will go slow on them for the moment.

It is critical to note that throughout the Acts of the Apostles, Christian baptism was administered immediately after people were saved. That has not changed in the least (although denominations have changed everything). And even many Baptists are not baptized immediately.

Again each person must decide what to do. For me to do it would at least be necessary to follow Jesus. He certainly did not need to be baptized in water because of his sins, but he said "... Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him." Matt 3:15

How can any of us do less than he did without regard to what that water dunk does to us?

 

[amadeus]

I don't know Amadeus, I have been taught that we will have the H.S. living inside us the second we receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. I don't understand the baptism in the Holy Spirit, not how it is supposed to work or how one gets this. If it has something to do with being pushed on the forehead to fall down, then - been there done that. Did not fall. Did not start speaking in a language and no fire lit upon my head. I can say that the changes in my life have been huge and continue...I have no answer to that and it makes me sometimes feel unsaved so, maybe there is something to this individual atonement thing, I just do not know

Sister I was taught that all I needed was a little splash of water on my head that first time. Later I was physically dunked twice based on different teachings. I guess I could teach a lesson on what this one says or on what that one says, but what is it that God says? That is what matters, is it not? The most important thing is that you love God and are giving Him your all.

Some will say you must speak in unknown tongues. Some will say that must not speak in such tongues. Your witness is the one that God gives to you whether it comes through another person or preacher or teacher or minister also veiled in flesh or not. Listen to God. Ask Him to help you to always recognize His voice even if He is speaking through a person.

What are we to do? What I usually say when people ask me is to follow this verse:


"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Keep on seeking those two things first and God will provide you with everything you need including proper direction. Sometimes the direction may seem to change. That is OK as well as long as it is God's voice you are hearing. Listen to what people say, but if they get too insistent that you follow their way when you are not certain that their words are God's Word for you, wait on God. You never go wrong by waiting on Him. Even people you normally trust can lead you wrong even though they may not do it intentionally.

 

[Armadillo]

What should we do with the NT scriptures telling us to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Jesus is God and we are to baptize one another in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Believing the Trinitarian view and to believe anything but the Trinity goes against scripture. The Trinity is based on the scriptures. When there is belief in His Son, the Holy Ghost moves in.

Baptism with water doesn't save, faith does.

 

[Nancy]

Jesus is God and we are to baptize one another in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Believing the Trinitarian view and to believe anything but the Trinity goes against scripture. The Trinity is based on the scriptures. When there is belief in His Son, the Holy Ghost moves in.

Baptism with water doesn't save, faith does.

I have always believed in the Trinity. I must say, I cannot even remember what post I was replying to here but, pretty sure it had no bearing on the Trinity...it all kind of morphed into water/Spirit baptism though...and yes, of course-faith is what saves...Old and New Covenant.

 

[Nancy]

Sister I was taught that all I needed was a little splash of water on my head that first time. Later I was physically dunked twice based on different teachings. I guess I could teach a lesson on what this one says or on what that one says, but what is it that God says? That is what matters, is it not? The most important thing is that you love God and are giving Him your all.

Some will say you must speak in unknown tongues. Some will say that must not speak in such tongues. Your witness is the one that God gives to you whether it comes through another person or preacher or teacher or minister also veiled in flesh or not. Listen to God. Ask Him to help you to always recognize His voice even if He is speaking through a person.

What are we to do? What I usually say when people ask me is to follow this verse:


"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Keep on seeking those two things first and God will provide you with everything you need including proper direction. Sometimes the direction may seem to change. That is OK as well as long as it is God's voice you are hearing. Listen to what people say, but if they get too insistent that you follow their way when you are not certain that their words are God's Word for you, wait on God. You never go wrong by waiting on Him. Even people you normally trust can lead you wrong even though they may not do it intentionally.

"Sister I was taught that all I needed was a little splash of water on my head that first time. "
Lol John! Me too...Italian Irish born :/ ahaha
"but what is it that God says? That is what matters, is it not?"
For sure...of the utmost importance.
" wait on God."
That is the best way for me to really get that peace. One of my constant prayers is discernment, especially on a forum
Love tat verse- "Seek ye first..." ♥

 

[amadeus]

"Sister I was taught that all I needed was a little splash of water on my head that first time. "
Lol John! Me too...Italian Irish born :/ ahaha
"but what is it that God says? That is what matters, is it not?"
For sure...of the utmost importance.
" wait on God."
That is the best way for me to really get that peace. One of my constant prayers is discernment, especially on a forum
Love tat verse- "Seek ye first..." ♥

No Irish or Italian in me. My father was probably mostly Germanic and my mother was likely mostly native American. My family was Protestant Pentecostal when I was born in Oklahoma. My mother divorced my father in Oklahoma during WWII, moved to California and married a Portugee who knew nothing but Catholicism but little really of that. I was the only practicing Catholic in the family for years. After high school I backslid from that.

 

[Nancy]

No Irish or Italian in me. My father was probably mostly Germanic and my mother was likely mostly native American. My family was Protestant Pentecostal when I was born in Oklahoma. My mother divorced my father in Oklahoma during WWII, moved to California and married a Portugee who knew nothing but Catholicism but little really of that. I was the only practicing Catholic in the family for years. After high school I backslid from that.

I wouldn't say that my family was really "practicing" Catholicism, myself, and my 2 older sibs were made to go on Sundays, w started to skip after awhile...grabbed that weeks bulletin and left. Watched across the way, in a plaza until everybody started coming out...then went home...yeah, we were bad kids ...made our 1st communions, confirmations...Mom had 4 younger of my sibs at home, I suppose it was too much for her to take all 7 of us, and my dad did not have any interest.

 

[amadeus]

I wouldn't say that my family was really "practicing" Catholicism, myself, and my 2 older sibs were made to go on Sundays, w started to skip after awhile...grabbed that weeks bulletin and left. Watched across the way, in a plaza until everybody started coming out...then went home...yeah, we were bad kids ...made our 1st communions, confirmations...Mom had 4 younger of my sibs at home, I suppose it was too much for her to take all 7 of us, and my dad did not have any interest.

I was baptized Catholic at 6 years old and attended mass regularly with my older brother. He stopped when he started high school never to return. I remained of my whole family devout and faithful as an altar boy all through high school then I also finally stopped never to return although I tried a couple of times. Neither my mother or my step father ever attended except once in a great while a Christmas midnight mass.