Kalam Cosmological argument and creatio ex nihilo

[shinydarkrai94]

Hi everyone.

Recently, my 14 year old sister decided to respond to an atheist on YouTube named TheoreticalBS. She responded to two of his videos which you can watch here:




She made this video in response: http://www.youtube.c...?v=qIGxmChm-eo. I thought it was pretty good, but I didn't think that it was clear enough and I thought she went off on a few different topics, so I made a followup video with her. You can watch it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhMwZPBj4Mw

Anyway, the point of this thread is just to ask you guys what you think about our arguments. Both of us would like some constructive criticism.

We do agree that TBS has given some good criticisms of the Kalam Cosmological argument, but the main point that we disagree with him on is his claim that Creatio ex nihilo is logically impossible.

His basis for claiming this seems to be that it does not fit with the model of causality that he has given. The problem with this is that any model of causality must rely upon physical observation of causes and effects and thus the model is inductive. Conclusions using inductive reasoning are fallacious and to show that something is logically impossible, you must use deductive reasoning.

What do you guys think?

Well the first two links aren't showing on my computer. If you don't see them either, the links are:

watch?v=fRn-mVPIl60
watch?v=4IGlgYExLOo

 

[KingdomCome]

Did we come from God?

Do we reside within God and the Lamb?

Is God nothing?

Did we come out of nothing?

Blessings

 

[PropphecyStudent]

...
What do you guys think?
...

Hi shinydarkrai94,

I think your parents raised two children extremely well. And where each one of us is gifted by GOD as HE apportions, -- the two of you certainly bring an aspect for which I am certainly lacking. So although I've investigated this topic, found it most interesting, and can appreciate some of the concepts, I can offer no opinion. However, I do pray that you and your sister are both encouraged in all that the Father calls you to.

Your Friend,
PropphecyStudent -- [Yeah, my fat fingers got in the way when I signed up in this Forum.]

 

[KingdomCome]

Did we come from God?

Do we reside within God and the Lamb?

Is God nothing?

Did we come out of nothing?

Blessings

If God is not nothing, if God is something, then we cannot come Creatio ex nihilo.

Creatio ex nihilo is a false construct.

All things created reside in God the Father and the Lamb.

 

[shinydarkrai94]

@Prophecy, Thanks .

@KingdomCome, That seems to be an unsupported assertion to me.

 

[Angelina]

Hi shinydarkrai!
Genesis 1:1 The bible says that In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. [space]

From that point of creation, I believe that the writer then goes on to explain that what was created... was still in it's initial stage...

H8414 tôhû - without form
From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

H922 bôhû - void
From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is, (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.

From that physical chaotic mass of Gods creation...he then begins to bring about life by his word...

Genesis 1:2
and darkness [H2822] was upon the face of the deep [H8415]. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters [H4325].


H2822 chôshek - darkness
From H2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness: - dark (-ness), night, obscurity.

H8415 tehôm tehôm - deep
(Usually feminine) from H1949; an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water supply): - deep (place), depth.

H4325 mayim - waters
Dual of a primitive noun (but used in a singular sense); water; figuratively juice; by euphemism urine, semen: - + ****, wasting, water (-ing, [-course, -flood, -spring]).

Hebrews 11:3 states that, “By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

In this sense, I agree with scholars who believe that the universe was created by divine command and was not formulated from matter or energy that already existed...

Shalom!

 

[Doppleganger]

The idea is that in verse Gen 1 everything was created perfectly [the 1st perfect creation, the template for everything - how the bio-info - pre-evolution got there], in verse 2 the katabole [The Big Collapse - Chaos], and in verse 3+ a re-creation. [The Big Bang and subsequent Bio-Genesis] [1, 2 & 3 may get mushed together in a scientific view]

Although the Heavens and Earth Pass Away My Word will Live On ... the heavens declare the Glory of God.

No worries brother ... its all good! Just don't try and measure God . or his love . or his greatness ... its just impossible!

 

[KingdomCome]

KingdomCome, on 08 February 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Did we come from God?

Do we reside within God and the Lamb?

Is God nothing?

Did we come out of nothing?

Blessings

If God is not nothing, if God is something, then we cannot come Creatio ex nihilo.

Creatio ex nihilo is a false construct.

All things created reside in God the Father and the Lamb.

____________________________

Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:23 AM
@Prophecy, Thanks .

@KingdomCome, That seems to be an unsupported assertion to me.

____________________________________

Is God Light? — 1John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Is Christ Jesus the Light of the world? — Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. Joh 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Rev 21: 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Col 1:
16 For in him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Re v1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Christ Jesus is the "beginning" and all things were created in Him who is the beginning.

"In the beginning..." (Gen 1:1) is not and historical phrase — it defines Christ Jesus, the "light of the world" as the beginning and the Son of God.

 

[winc]

The problem appears to be that the true Christian doctrine is not known, understood and/or accepted - viz in the beginning,in an instant on each of 6 x 24hr days,God out of nothing created everything very good[complete] = no millions of years of evolution necessary or possible - winc