Keeping Jesus' commands is requirement for salvation, not the doctrine of trinity

[meshak]

Okay....here's 3 things I know about you:

1. You never back up your thoughts with scripture
2. You repeat things over and over....even though you don't back them up with scripture and others have clearly given you scripture
3. You believe you are qualified to know everything about everyone...when clearly only God can do that.

Conclusion:
I should stop wasting my time. See ya.

1) take a look at the OP and I have been showing you plenty of Jesus' word. this claim is so untrue.
2) I repeat because you dont acknowledge Jesus' word I have been claiming.
3) I qualified to spread Jesus' word, I am Jesus' servant and have been serving Him since I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior.

your conclusion; might as well because you cannot refute my claim like the rest of the trinity believers.

good day and blessings.

Is that the best answer you can give lol. Thomas called Jesus God and Jesus never rebuked him. You can ignore this all you like, but the truth rebukes you.



You must realize that there is true faith and there is also dead faith. If a Christian picks and chooses what commandments he or she wants to obey, then how can they have true faith? The Bible tells us over and over again to keep God's commandments and to repent of sin. True faith will compel a Christian to obey God. But dead faith will result in willfull disobedience. I come across so many Christians today who just pick and choose what they want to obey, yet they think they are destined for heaven because they have faith. They don't understand that dead faith won't get them into heaven. True faith results in obedience.

Yes, it is darn good one if I say so myself, lol.

Yes, true faith is come along with godly deeds, Militant faith is not godly deeds.

Trin churches are interpreting the way that is suitable to keep their members to their churches regardless of what Jesus says. It is organization or man pleasing faith. I interpret the word harmonizing with Jesus' word.

Your last comment is correct except trinity churches are not producing godly fruit. And this is you cannot do anything about it unless you come out of your deceptive organization or church.

Jesus is telling you to come out of her but you are not taking it seriously. so sad, friend.

 

[Rach1370]

1) take a look at the OP and I have been showing you plenty of Jesus' word. this claim is so untrue.
2) I repeat because you dont acknowledge Jesus' word I have been claiming.
3) I qualified to spread Jesus' word, I am Jesus' servant and have been serving Him since I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior.

your conclusion; might as well because you cannot refute my claim like the rest of the trinity believers.

good day and blessings.

Sigh. Yes, your verses in the OP are very pretty. Truly, they are wonderful verses, and they do mean much....but...and here's the point I've been trying to make all along....

They do not state that these 'commandments' we are to follow, are needed to be done FOR salvation. All the passages I've given since say otherwise...they say that salvation is through grace and faith, and that once we are saved, then we are called to do good works. The verses I've shown tell us the opposite of what you claim. The verses you gave in the OP say nothing for your argument, and you have not given any other verses to try and support your views.

In fact, in many ways the verses you gave only support my claim! For example..."if you love me, keep my commands". The bible tells us elsewhere that we can only love God once he has opened our eyes and hearts and changed us.....in other words...we can only truly love God and follow his commands, once he has redeemed us and done a work in us.

My point is, you cannot make the verses in the OP say something that they just don't say. And people won't listen to you until you actual present something more than "you're not listening to me and my words". We don't want to listen to your words, we want to be swayed by God's words.

I have tried this one last time to explain the problem you are having here. Honestly....if you want actual conversation and debate with others, you have to do more than just "well I say it says so"....

 

[meshak]

Sigh. Yes, your verses in the OP are very pretty. Truly, they are wonderful verses, and they do mean much....but...and here's the point I've been trying to make all along....

They do not state that these 'commandments' we are to follow, are needed to be done FOR salvation. All the passages I've given since say otherwise...they say that salvation is through grace and faith, and that once we are saved, then we are called to do good works. The verses I've shown tell us the opposite of what you claim. The verses you gave in the OP say nothing for your argument, and you have not given any other verses to try and support your views.

In fact, in many ways the verses you gave only support my claim! For example..."if you love me, keep my commands". The bible tells us elsewhere that we can only love God once he has opened our eyes and hearts and changed us.....in other words...we can only truly love God and follow his commands, once he has redeemed us and done a work in us.

My point is, you cannot make the verses in the OP say something that they just don't say. And people won't listen to you until you actual present something more than "you're not listening to me and my words". We don't want to listen to your words, we want to be swayed by God's words.

I have tried this one last time to explain the problem you are having here. Honestly....if you want actual conversation and debate with others, you have to do more than just "well I say it says so"....

I pointed out you blind spot but you blushed them off.

This is how my opponent debaters do; they cannot refute my claim and go on to another one on and on without dealing with your problems..

For example, Jesus says we know them by their fruit, yet trinity churches are not showing much of godly fruit to the world. Because your churches are not showing godly fruit, everything you say is moot, according to Jesus. Protestants are not much different from the RCC.

This is onle one example that you are blushing off.

 

[IAmAWitness]

Hi meshak,
It seems perhaps true that you may have thrown in the Trinity subject when in reality it has not much to do with the wars between the "Law" crowd and the "Grace only" crowd. However, if you would like some help with these things just ask, (since it is clear you have already been ganged up on by the "Grace only" crowd). Don't worry, there are plenty of believers who believe just as you do because they believe every word of Messiah and do not dare attempt to put him and his doctrine into a separate "dispensation" as some here have already stated that they believe. The same who do such things in the chambers of their imagery succeed only in cutting themselves off from the Master. You left out one supremely important statement from one of your Scripture quotes that I would like to add:

John 14:21-23 KJV
21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

It is a terrible irony of religion that the true legalists are those who are so no-holds-barred committed to grace, to the extent of reviling and attacking those who say anything that even in some slight regard interferes with their theology. These people are the enemy.

Anyone divided from Meshak's doctrine stated in his post is damned, in my opinion.

The story starts with three men on a boat with no food and no hope of rescue. The first says to the second, "Here, let us eat the third, we will overpower him and slay him."

And if you are the third, you can either be slayed and eaten or get out of it, saying, "Nay, not so. Let him who first has offered the idea, let him offer himself to be eaten."

Therefore the last two kill the first.

Today we have many such first men who speak of the supremacy of their doctrinal ideology, reviling and condemning those who dissent from their teaching, saying, "Let them burn, let the Inquisitors speak with them."

Our only choice is to say, "Nay, not so. If it is that any of us be damned, then it should be the one who walks around with false allegations, evil burning in his heart toward his brother, and the man who makes a habit of damning everyone he comes across. Let that man be damned and him alone."

My opinion is, when you make it a habit of preaching this division and hell fire against people who may have different opinions than what you do, you are exposing yourself as being the child of Satan that you are.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

So Meshak .... you have made it clear that you dislike all Christians except for yourself .

You keep preaching that Christians do not keep the commands of Jesus and they just follow the trinity doctrine

Anything else on your mind meshak ???

God The Father produced a Son when The Holy Spirit came upon the human virgin Mary

No other human on the face of this earth can say "God is My Daddy" .... Only Jesus Christ can make that claim

As a Christian I must confess my belief in the Divine origins of Jesus Christ , the Son of Jehovah God.

As a Christian I understand that the summary of the commandments of Jesus Christ is that we are to love one another .

I attempt to follow that commandment with varying degrees of success

I see no such similar attempts by you meshak

Plus you deny the Divinity of The Son of God

In what category do you think Jesus Christ places you meshak ?

To spend the rest of your days bashing all the Christians that belong to Jesus will not oil up the hinges on the pearly gates when you are standing outside of them

 

[meshak]

So Meshak .... you have made it clear that you dislike all Christians except for yourself .

You keep preaching that Christians do not keep the commands of Jesus and they just follow the trinity doctrine

Anything else on your mind meshak ???

God The Father produced a Son when The Holy Spirit came upon the human virgin Mary

No other human on the face of this earth can say "God is My Daddy" .... Only Jesus Christ can make that claim

As a Christian I must confess my belief in the Divine origins of Jesus Christ , the Son of Jehovah God.

As a Christian I understand that the summary of the commandments of Jesus Christ is that we are to love one another .

I attempt to follow that commandment with varying degrees of success

I see no such similar attempts by you meshak

Plus you deny the Divinity of The Son of God

In what category do you think Jesus Christ places you meshak ?

To spend the rest of your days bashing all the Christians that belong to Jesus will not oil up the hinges on the pearly gates when you are standing outside of them

I did not say I dislike Christians. I say I dont think trinity churches are inline with God and Jesus with their practice, fruit.

Please dont put the word in my mouth.

I dont respond to such lengthy posts because I address one issue at a time to focus the point. Your posts have too many holes to deal with.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I did not say I dislike Christians. I say I dont think trinity churches are inline with God and Jesus with their practice, fruit.

Please dont put the word in my mouth.

I dont respond to such lengthy posts because I address one issue at a time to focus the point. Your posts have too many holes to deal with.

OK ..... I am a trinity Christian ..... Jesus is God come in human form ..... I try my best to follow Jesus greatest commandment .... to love other Christians as I love myself and as Jesus loves them and me.

 

[meshak]

OK ..... I am a trinity Christian ..... Jesus is God come in human form ..... I try my best to follow Jesus greatest commandment .... to love other Christians as I love myself and as Jesus loves them and me.

Do you know that Jesus teaches us in great detail on how to serve Him?

Reading your posts you dont seem to know how to serve Him like most trinity believing Christians. And they call themselves true Christians and are saved.

blessings.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Do you know that Jesus teaches us in great detail on how to serve Him?

Reading your posts you dont seem to know how to serve Him like most trinity believing Christians. And they call themselves true Christians and are saved.

blessings.

You dont know how to serve him either

You just know you hate trinity christians

You say so in every post

You are a waste of time

You should become a trinity Christian and get in on the real action

I hope this post was not too long and complicated for you

 

[meshak]

You dont know how to serve him either

You just know you hate trinity christians

You say so in every post

You are a waste of time

You should become a trinity Christian and get in on the real action

I hope this post was not too long and complicated for you

I have been pointing out how trinity churches are dishonoring Jesus.

And you cannot refute any of them. All you can come up is insult and personal attacks.

 

[Rach1370]

Man....it's soooo hard to let an argument drop when someone is so obviously, blatantly, ridiculously, head bangingly wrong!
And not just wrong, but apparently oblivious to the fact that his arguments are flat, illogical and pointless.

But I suppose anything's possible....so here I go!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I have been pointing out how trinity churches are dishonoring Jesus.

And you cannot refute any of them. All you can come up is insult and personal attacks.

Dear bother, you are being stubborn and obnoxious. Time to take a break and pray and ask for a gentle cleansing.

 

[meshak]

Man....it's soooo hard to let an argument drop when someone is so obviously, blatantly, ridiculously, head bangingly wrong!
And not just wrong, but apparently oblivious to the fact that his arguments are flat, illogical and pointless.

But I suppose anything's possible....so here I go!

Denial is not good if you want to be true to Jesus, dear.

Dear bother, you are being stubborn and obnoxious. Time to take a break and pray and ask for a gentle cleansing.

You call stubborn to not succumb into lukewarm faith, friend.

Superficial gentleness is not of Jesus either.

 

[KCKID]

What is this thread about ...??? I got lost at the apes some time ago.

Lost at the apes, a little story to lighten the mood. Some years ago I took my then 9 year-old son, Charley, to see a re-release/re-print of the 1968 Stanley Kubrick movie, 2001: A Space Odyssey on the big screen. For those who might have seen this movie (most of you, I hope) it's quite complex and somewhat difficult to follow. The first 15/20 minutes or so are devoted to 'The Dawn of Man' when the world is desolate and devoid of life. Then, along comes the herbivorous hominides (apes) who spend their time foraging for food in the African desert. The apes later form into tribes, learn how to use weapons, attack and kill each other over food and are eventually confronted by a mysterious black monolith that appears before them. Following the movie's famous theme, Also Sprach Zarathustra, we are then unexpectedly hurtling through space heading toward a huge space station orbitting the earth to the magnificent strains of Johann Strauss' The Blue Danube. The next destination is the moon where we once again meet up with the mysterious black monolith that has been uncovered in a crater. Next, we're on a mission to Jupiter and, once again, as we approach the huge planet the black monolith appears and takes us on a journey that is both frightening and rather mind-blowing. Some 140 minutes later the movie is over and we all head for the exit. I'm amused by the puzzled looks on everyone's faces.

On the way home I ask Charley what he thought of the movie. "Great," he said. Then silence. I asked him if he understood what the movie was about. "Oh yeah," he said, "but I DID get lost in one part." Since 'clever daddy' (ME!) had briefed himself years ago with what the story/movie was basically about I asked Charley at which part he'd gotten lost. He said, rather hesitatingy, "Um, I got lost at the apes." Alarmed, I said, "But, but ...that was at the very beginning of the movie!" Charley said, "I know . . .that's where i got lost!"

So, from then on the term "I got lost at the apes" - thanks to 9 year-old Charley - became the catch-cry of friends and family whenever they were confronted by anything that they didn't understand. What IS this thread about again ...?

 

[meshak]

What is this thread about ...??? I got lost at the apes some time ago.

Lost at the apes, a little story to lighten the mood. Some years ago I took my then 9 year-old son, Charley, to see a re-release/re-print of the 1968 Stanley Kubrick movie, 2001: A Space Odyssey on the big screen. For those who might have seen this movie (most of you, I hope) it's quite complex and somewhat difficult to follow. The first 15/20 minutes or so are devoted to 'The Dawn of Man' when the world is desolate and devoid of life. Then, along comes the herbivorous hominides (apes) who spend their time foraging for food in the African desert. The apes later form into tribes, learn how to use weapons, attack and kill each other over food and are eventually confronted by a mysterious black monolith that appears before them. Following the movie's famous theme, Also Sprach Zarathustra, we are then unexpectedly hurtling through space heading toward a huge space station orbitting the earth to the magnificent strains of Johann Strauss' The Blue Danube. The next destination is the moon where we once again meet up with the mysterious black monolith that has been uncovered in a crater. Next, we're on a mission to Jupiter and, once again, as we approach the huge planet the black monolith appears and takes us on a journey that is both frightening and rather mind-blowing. Some 140 minutes later the movie is over and we all head for the exit. I'm amused by the puzzled looks on everyone's faces.

On the way home I ask Charley what he thought of the movie. "Great," he said. Then silence. I asked him if he understood what the movie was about. "Oh yeah," he said, "but I DID get lost in one part." Since 'clever daddy' (ME!) had briefed himself years ago with what the story/movie was basically about I asked Charley at which part he'd gotten lost. He said, rather hesitatingy, "Um, I got lost at the apes." Alarmed, I said, "But, but ...that was at the very beginning of the movie!" Charley said, "I know . . .that's where i got lost!"

So, from then on the term "I got lost at the apes" - thanks to 9 year-old Charley - became the catch-cry of friends and family whenever they were confronted by anything that they didn't understand. What IS this thread about again ...?

This thread is about being obedient to Jesus is requirement of salvation, not the doctrine of the trinity.

 

[PuanthanhGangmei]

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? (Romans 6:1)
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! (Romans 6:15)

I believe every Christian is playing their part to be faithful to the Lord. But no matter how much we try to be faithful, we will always be a sinner. It is only through grace by faith that we are made righteous. Yes, Christian are hyprocrites (for those who sees it that way). Because we can never live to the level God expect us to live or according to the commandment. And for that very same reason Jesus came to save us.

How righteous are we to point finger to others? That's the question we should ask ourselve first. No true mature Christian will continue in sin knowing grace will abound. Remember everyone loves the crown of life that is awaiting us. I believe we are all working faithfully for the crown. Amen!

Overcome evil with good...That's what real Christian do...

 

[meshak]

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? (Romans 6:1)
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! (Romans 6:15)

I believe every Christian is playing their part to be faithful to the Lord. But no matter how much we try to be faithful, we will always be a sinner. It is only through grace by faith that we are made righteous. Yes, Christian are hyprocrites (for those who sees it that way). Because we can never live to the level God expect us to live or according to the commandment. And for that very same reason Jesus came to save us.

How righteous are we to point finger to others? That's the question we should ask ourselve first. No true mature Christian will continue in sin knowing grace will abound. Remember everyone loves the crown of life that is awaiting us. I believe we are all working faithfully for the crown. Amen!

Overcome evil with good...That's what real Christian do...

It is ok for you to misrepresent Jesus with militant faith to the world. I will spread true Jesus, not perverted triniy version of Jesus. Jesus is not militant savior. He is prince of peace.

 

[IAmAWitness]

And they will think they're doing God a service by killing us. Satan's greatest servants are going to be recruited out of the church itself.

 

[meshak]

And they will think they're doing God a service by killing us. Satan's greatest servants are going to be recruited out of the church itself.

Yes.

 

[Rach1370]

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? (Romans 6:1)
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! (Romans 6:15)

I believe every Christian is playing their part to be faithful to the Lord. But no matter how much we try to be faithful, we will always be a sinner. It is only through grace by faith that we are made righteous. Yes, Christian are hyprocrites (for those who sees it that way). Because we can never live to the level God expect us to live or according to the commandment. And for that very same reason Jesus came to save us.

How righteous are we to point finger to others? That's the question we should ask ourselve first. No true mature Christian will continue in sin knowing grace will abound. Remember everyone loves the crown of life that is awaiting us. I believe we are all working faithfully for the crown. Amen!

Overcome evil with good...That's what real Christian do...

Hey Marc! Welcome to the forum! Very nice post above...amen!