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Kicking Off With Genesis

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Webers_Home, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross New Member

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    In Genesis 2:17 it tells us that God warned Adam that if he ate the fruit from the Tree of knowing God and evil that he would "die the second death." The transliterated is "mont taamunt" where mont and taamunt are both derived from the same Hebrew Root word H:4171. God was warning Adam that if he ate of the fruit of the Tree of knowledge that he would become a candidate for the consequences of the second death in the distant future.

    Sadly "mont" which has the meaning of "die" in this instance but is wrongly translated in English as "surely" and "taamunt" which has the meaning of "the second death" is also wrongly translated as just "die."

    In Revelation 20:14 both the bottomless pit, i.e. the deep from Genesis 1:2 and the second death is cast into the Lake of fire so that they will no longer existed in eternity.

    A very different understanding to the one that you provided.
     
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  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross New Member

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    If we do a word search for the Hebrew word with the embedded Hebrew root word H:3117 as is found in Genesis 1:5 in the expression "the first day" we would discover that within the Westminister Text that this word is different to the word for day that was created by the Sun.

    As such, the length of each "day" of creation is very different to a 24 hr period of time that we understand as a "solar day."

    This difference is also discernible when God after His Sabbath day of rest went and looked closely at the activities of man around the time of Noah and his birth. But that is getting in front of the story being told by the originator of this thread.
     
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  3. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross New Member

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    Satan, the serpent drove a wedge between Eve and God and even her own husband, in that Satan force her to look for the answers for herself rather than go directly to God to hear first hand the reason why she should not eat from the tree of knowledge.

    If you want to destroy a relationship between two people, then tell one of the two something about the other that makes that person question the validity of their relationship such that they cannot go to the other person to find out the truth from the horses mouth so to speak.
     
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  4. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross New Member

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    Here we see the Covenant, between God and mankind, being expanded to take into account the fall of mankind in the Garden of Eden with a future event that will undo the work of Satan in the garden of Eden.

    We can also see the consequences of later writings such as the Holiness Code also embedded in this dialogue between God, the woman and mankind.
     
  5. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross New Member

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    In the above scriptural passage God was offering Cain redemption if he would trust in the Lord because the Lord was offering Cain help in doing it right.
     
  6. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Active Member

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    Huh?

    It is: mot tamut

    They are verbs, the first, mot, is the infinitive binyan Qal, meaning "to die", the second is the Binyan Qal, future tense 2nd pers. masc. sing. "you will die". There is nothing mythical, mystical or anything else here. It is simply saying that be-yom (in the day) you eat from the tree, to die you will die.

    Tamut means no such thing as "the second death", it is "you will die".

    I have seen many do what you are attempting to do here. I have even seen some render evil for good and good for evil. I offer you a strong word of caution.

    IHL,
    Richard
     
  7. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Active Member

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    Huh?

    I do not own a copy of the "Westminister" text, however in the texts I do have a copy of, there are two occurrences of yom in Bere'shit (Genesis) 1:5: yom ; yom 'ekhad : day ; day one.

    In verse 14 ha-yom ; the-day : u-le-yamim and-to/for-days conjunction-preposition-plural

    In verse 16 ha-yom ; the-day

    In verse 18 ba-yom ; in/over-the-day. The preposition beit here forms a contraction with the definite article.

    Perhaps I am not seeing something and maybe you can show me. Otherwise, I see no differences here.
     
  8. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross New Member

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    Ezekiel 18 from memory would disagree with you.
     
  9. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Active Member

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    Seems that we may have a disconnect in communication.

    If you would like, we can examine the occurrences of "mot" within Ezekiel 18. Such as in v4, 13, 17, 18, 20, 21, 24, 26, 28, 31, 32. I can readily transliterate them for you and we can see if there is any disagreement.

    Eze 18:21 But if the wicked turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 None of his transgressions that he hath committed shall be remembered against him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

    PS: How do you read 1 Peter 3:19-20?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  10. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross New Member

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    What is your source for the transliterated text?
     
  11. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 4:20-22
    Continuing from Post #58

    Gen 4:20 . . Adah bore Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who
    dwell in tents and amidst herds.

    This is the Bible's very first mention of man-made portable shelters. Tents,
    teepees, wigwams, etc; make it possible to roam long distances in relative
    comfort while searching for foods and pastures.

    Abraham and Sarah were housed in portable shelters the whole time they
    lived in Canaan. With portable shelters, Enochville could be a very mobile
    community, staying in one place only long enough to deplete its natural
    resources before moving on to better diggings to invade, plunder, exploit,
    pollute, and depredate.

    Jabal wasn't the father of animal husbandry as the passage seems to
    suggest. Abel was already tending flocks before Jabal was born (Gen 4:2).
    Dwelling "amidst" herds describes the lifestyle of North America's early
    plains Indians; whose livelihood depended a great deal upon wild buffalo.
    Though they followed the herds, the Sioux, Cheyenne, Arapaho, Kiowa,
    Crow, Blackfoot, Comanche, and Shoshone, et el; didn't actually raise any of
    their own buffalo like on a ranch.

    Dwelling amidst herds is a nomadic way of life rather than one that's
    domesticated; hence the need for portable shelters; and the herds (e.g.
    deer, elk, wild goats, antelope, wildebeests, et al) would provide fabric for
    not only the tents, but also for shoes and clothing; which would need
    replacement quite often.

    One of Lewis' and Clark's complaints, when they were passing through the
    Oregon territory, was that moccasins rotted off their feet in the Northwest's
    climate. Even without rot, the soles of moccasins are not all that resistant to
    wear. Buckskins, manufactured from Elk hide and/or deerskin, fared little
    better.

    Gen 4:21 . . And the name of his brother was Jubal; he was the
    ancestor of all who play the lyre and the pipe.

    The word for "ancestor" is from 'ab (awb); a primitive word which means
    father, in a literal and immediate, or figurative and remote application. In
    this particular case, 'ab wouldn't mean literal kin, but likely analogous to an
    inventor who is the first to introduce a new concept which then later
    becomes widely adopted.

    The word for "lyre" is from kinnowr (kin-nore') and means: to twang. So the
    actual instrument itself is difficult to identify. It could have been a harp. But
    then again, it may have even been something as simple as a string stretched
    between a washtub and a broom stick.

    The interesting thing about an ancient twanging instrument is its string. How
    did the Cainites make them? Of what material? A stringed instrument is a
    pretty advanced musical tool and certainly not something you would expect
    to find among so primitive a people as the antediluvians.

    The word for "pipe" is from 'uwgab (oo-gawb') and means: a reed
    instrument of music.

    A modern reed instrument is typically a woodwind that produces sound by
    vibrating a thin strip of wood against the mouthpiece; like clarinets and
    saxophones (hence the classification: woodwinds). But in that culture, it
    could very well have been something as simple as a tube whistle made from
    a single hollow section of plant stem; or several of those bundled together
    like a Pan flute.

    Gen 4:22a . . As for Zillah, she bore Tubal-cain, who forged all
    implements of copper and iron.

    Copper, in its natural form, is too soft and pliable for practical purposes; but
    it's a classification of metals called work-hardening. In other words, by
    pounding or rolling cold copper, its mechanical properties can be greatly
    improved. It probably didn't take Mr. Tubal-cain long to figure that out.

    Adding a little tin to copper produces bronze, which is much stronger and
    tougher than pure copper.

    Copper's advantage in cooking is its natural heat conduction, which is very
    fast as compared to iron and/or steel. It's also an excellent conductor of
    electricity, but unless they were bottling lightening in those days, copper's
    electrical properties would have to wait for future exploitation.

    Iron, though stronger and harder than copper, is relatively soft and pliable in
    its natural condition too; but with the addition of small amounts of carbon, it
    becomes steel, which is quite a bit tougher than natural iron. Whether Tubal
    cain figured that out is difficult to know for sure.

    Gen 4:22b . . And the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

    Her name is from Na'amah (nah-am-aw') which means pleasant, amiable, or
    agreeable. A girl named Joy would probably fit that category. Na'amah
    suggests that the people of Enochville were content with their way of life.

    So all in all, Enochville, though unproductive in agriculture, prospered
    through manufacturing and commerce instead; trading the goods and
    services of their industrial base for much needed produce; the same way
    that most urbanites still do even today. People in towns and cities typically
    don't support themselves directly from nature. They earn a medium of
    exchange in some sort of skill or profession, then trade it with merchants to
    buy the things they need to survive.

    The technological, and cultural, level of early Man was very high. It's
    interesting that the identifying marks which evolutionary anthropologists use
    to denote the emergence of a stone age culture into a civilized society were
    evident in Cain's day-- animal husbandry, agriculture, trades, urbanization,
    music, and metallurgy. All these civilizational technologies emerged very
    early: within just a few generations of Adam; rather than thousands upon
    thousands of years of human development.

    I'm not saying there were never any "stone-age" peoples. Obviously there
    were. But though Cain's community may have started out as cave men, by
    Noah's day they were past primitive conditions and actually pretty advanced.

    It's too bad the Flood wiped early Man off the map. Who can tell what he
    might have accomplished had his progress not been interrupted (cf. Gen
    11:6).

    /
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  12. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Active Member

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    The source text, as in the Hebrew codex / manuscript?
    Or the source / standard of the transliteration itself?

    My primary goto is the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia which is based upon the Leningrad Codex. However I can use the Masoretic text.

    The transliteration is mine. If you would prefer, I can use the Michigan-Claremont standard.
     
  13. twinc

    twinc Active Member

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    a 24hr day had nothing to do with the sun which was created on the fourth revolution of the earth on its axis - twinc
     
  14. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 4:23-26
    Continuing from Post #71

    Gen 4:23-24 . . And Lamech said to his wives: Adah and Zillah, hear
    my voice! O wives of Lamech, give ear to my speech! I have slain a
    man for wounding me, and a lad for bruising me. If Cain is avenged
    sevenfold, then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.


    Brag, Brag, Brag-- boy, I tell you some men sure love to show off and glorify
    themselves in front of women; no doubt about it.

    Apparently ol' Lamech figured the homicide he committed wasn't nearly as
    severe as Cain's because he killed in retribution; whereas Cain killed in a
    rage. Also, Cain killed his kid brother, whereas Lamech killed his relative a
    little more distant. So to Lamech's way of thinking, Cain's killing was a much
    more serious crime; and if a dirty rotten scoundrel like gramps was under
    divine protections, then, in Lamech's mind, he certainly deserved to be
    under them even more so.

    It almost appears that Lamech killed two people, but really it was only one;
    and in fact a person younger than himself. Two words describe Lamech's
    opponent. The first word is from 'enowsh (en-oshe') and simply means a
    mortal; viz: a human being (of either gender), in general (singly or
    collectively); viz: someone and/or somebody. The second word reveals the
    person's age. The word for "lad" is yeled (yeh'-led) and means something
    born, i.e. a lad or offspring-- boy, child, fruit, son, young one and/or young
    man.

    Apparently Lamech got in a disagreement with somebody and they settled
    their differences in a fight. The injury Lamech received in the ensuing scuffle
    could have been something as simple as the man biting his ear or kicking
    him in the groin. It's my guess Lamech over-reacted and stabbed the man to
    death with a spiffy hunting knife that his son Tubal-cain made for him over
    in the blacksmith shop.

    Lamech's sense of right and wrong reflects the humanistic conscience of a
    man void of God's mentoring. In his earthly mind, revenge was an okay
    thing; which is a common attitude in many primitive cultures.

    But his opponent only wounded him. In return, Lamech took his life. The
    scales of justice don't balance in a situation like that-- they tip. Pure law
    says eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burning for burning, stripe for stripe, life
    for life, and no more. If the lad's intent was obviously upon great bodily
    harm; Lamech would probably be justified to kill in self defense since his
    opponent was a younger man and had the advantage in age. However,
    according to Lamech's own testimony, he killed the man in revenge; not self
    defense.

    Cain's side of the Adams family is characterized by technology, invention,
    boasting, achievement, commerce, and violence. But not one word is
    recorded concerning its association with, nor its interest in, their maker.
    Cain's entire community was impious and went on to be completely
    destroyed right down to the last man, woman, and child in Noah's flood. No
    one survives him today.

    The Bible doesn't record even one single incident of a Cainite blessing God
    for His goodness; nor for His mercy, nor for His providence. There is no
    record that any of them ever said even one single prayer-- not even a
    simple lay-me-down-to-sleep kind of prayer. Every one of the little kids in
    Enochville went to bed each night without the slightest assurance that
    humanity's creator cared at all for the well being of their little souls.

    How many homes right here today in modern America reflect that very same
    Cainish culture? The parents and the children are unthankful, unholy, and
    irreligious; caring little or nothing for things of eternal value: moving
    towards an inevitable head-on rendezvous with death and the hereafter, and
    totally unprepared to meet their maker.

    Gen 4:26a . . And to Seth, in turn, a son was born, and he named
    him Enosh.


    Sometimes the record shows the mother naming a child, and sometimes the
    father; which suggests that in all cases there was very likely mutual
    consultation between husband and wife on this important decision. But it's
    always important for the father to take a hand in naming the children
    because the act testifies that he has legally, and officially, accepted them as
    his own (e.g. Gen 15:16, Gen 21:3, Matt 1:21, Luke 1:13, Luke 1:63, Rev
    2:17).

    "Enosh" is from 'enowsh (en-oshe') and means: a mortal; hence a man in
    general, singly or collectively-- thus differing from the more dignified 'adam
    (aw-dawm') which is the proper name of the human race (Gen 5:2). There's
    really nothing special about an 'enowsh-- just a feller. Sometimes boys are
    named Guy or Buddy, so 'enowsh would be a common enough name.

    Gen 4:26b . .Then men began to call on the name of The Lord.

    The Hebrew word for "Lord" in this case is Yhvh; which always, and without
    exception, refers to the one true god.

    Apparently up to this point in time, people addressed God in a sort of
    general way instead of a personal way.

    According to a note in the Stone Tanach, the four letters of this name are
    those of the Hebrew words "He always was, He always is, and He always will
    be" signifying that Yhvh is timeless, perpetual, and infinite; ergo: self
    existent.

    /
     
  15. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 5:1-8

    Gen 5:1a . .This is the record of Adam's line.

    I suspect that Adam's genealogy would be better defined as "a" record
    rather than "the" record because the Bible's version isn't exhaustive.

    Adam's genealogy includes every natural-born human being who ever lived
    and/or will live, but the only branch in his tree that really counts is the one
    leading to Jesus of Nazareth: the Bible's central figure.

    Gen 5:1b-2 . .When God created man, He made him in the likeness
    of God; male and female He created them. And when they were
    created, He blessed them and called them Man.

    As a preamble to Seth's line, Genesis reminds the reader that Man's origin
    was by intelligent design and special creation, and that he was made in the
    likeness of his creator, and that he's been an h.sapiens right from the get
    go. Man didn't begin his existence as some sort of pre-human hominid
    named Ardi who lived in Ethiopia's Afar Rift some 4.4 million years ago.

    Some people take issue with Genesis because it seems to them so
    unscientific and contrary to the (known) fossil record. But they need to be
    cautious because science doesn't have perfect understanding of everything
    yet, nor has it discovered everything there is to discover, and it often has to
    be revised to reflect new discoveries, and to correct outdated theories and
    opinions.

    But to be fair, Bible students don't know everything yet either so I would
    advise watching the sciences for new discoveries that help fill in some of the
    Bible's blanks.

    Gen 5:3a . .When Adam had lived 130 years, he begot a son

    Adam lived to be 930. If we compare that age to that of the average life
    expectancy of American men today, Adam would have been an eleven year
    old kid when Seth was born.

    Eve understood Seth to be Abel's replacement. But that doesn't necessarily
    mean Seth was the very next boy born into the Adams family after Abel. It
    doesn't even mean Seth was her third child. Bible genealogies often have
    very large gaps in them, omitting insignificant male siblings; and typically all
    of the girls. In one instance (1Chrn 1:1) the record skips Abel and jumps
    right to Seth.

    Taking advantage of this rather strange Bible practice; critics are quick to
    point out generational gaps in Christ's genealogy with the intent of
    invalidating the entire New Testament. But gaps are to be expected or
    otherwise the list would be cumbersome and require a book all its own. For
    example; a sizeable quantity of time passed between Noah's ark and the
    arrival of Abraham on the scene; and probably a couple of ice ages too.
    We're talking about a lot of generations there, and naming them all to a man
    would be just as useless as it would be impractical.

    Gen 5:3b . . in his likeness after his image, and he named him Seth.

    Seth's image and likeness of his father Adam testifies that he was not made
    in the image and likeness of another species of human being. No; he was
    made of Adam's organic human tissue just as his mother Eve was. Thus Seth
    was an extension of Adam.

    That may seem a trivial matter, but it's very important because it reflects
    upon the kind of human being that Christ was born as. His human body
    wasn't a celestial human body nor the human body of another species of
    human being: no, his human body was an extension of Adam through and
    through just as Seth's and just as Eve's.

    Adam's image and likeness of God was obtained via the process of creation;
    while Seth's image and likeness of Adam was by means of procreation;
    which Webster's defines as reproduction; viz: biological progeny.

    Gen 5:4-5 . . After the birth of Seth, Adam lived 800 years and
    begot sons and daughters. All the days that Adam lived came to 930
    years; then he died.

    Well, there goes grandpa Adam, just as God predicted at Gen 3:19. But hey?
    Where's the listing of the rest of his kids? Didn't God bless him with the
    words "be fruitful, increase in number, and fill the earth". Well, I seriously
    doubt that he and Eve stopped after just three kids. But the rest of his
    progeny-- for reasons I can only guess --didn't make the cut.

    But when did Eve die? Did she outlive Adam? Who died first, Adam or Eve?
    Nobody really knows. But supposing Eve died quite a while before Adam?
    Did he remarry? And if he remarried, who did he marry? One of his own
    grandchildren?

    Well . . in Adam's case, what's so bad about that? I mean, after all, his first
    wife was constructed from the organic tissues of his own body; so that in
    reality, Eve was his first child which means that by today's social standards;
    Adam practiced the worst kind of incest. At least his grandkids would have
    been several times removed.

    Gen 5:6-7 . .When Seth had lived 105 years, he begot Enosh. After
    the birth of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and begot sons and
    daughters.

    No doubt some people envy the longevity of the antediluvians; but I don't.
    Their life was hard, and for the most part, pretty boring too. Would you want
    to live for 912 years in pre historic conditions without a single modern
    convenience? Not me.

    Was Enosh the first of Seth's children? Maybe, but probably not. However,
    he is the only child that counts because it's through him that we're moving
    towards Noah; and ultimately Abraham, David, and Christ.

    Gen 5:8 . . All the days of Seth came to 912 years; then he died.

    (sigh) The story of our futile lives. So and So was born, he got married and
    reproduced; he lived X number of years after that, and then died-- same O,
    same O. The weary circle of life.

    "Meaningless! Futile! complains the Teacher. Utterly meaningless!
    Everything is meaningless. What does man gain from all his labor at which
    he toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth
    remains forever." (Ecc 1:2-4)

    The earth is dumber than a brick; yet easily outlives its human potentate;
    whose IQ is infinitely greater.

    /
     
  16. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 5:9-27

    Gen 5:9 . .When Enosh had lived 90 years, he begot Kenan.

    Kenan's name in the Hebrew is Qeynan (kay-nawn') which means fixed or
    permanent; sort of like birds' nests, homes; and drifters finally ending their
    nomadic life and putting down some roots. Fixed can also mean that
    someone's life has a noble purpose and that their mind is focused upon that
    purpose rather than looking two ways at once. Or it can also mean
    somebody's life is a dead end; for example "this is as good as it's ever going
    to get". Kind of pessimistic; but had I lived back then, I would have agreed;
    heartily.

    Gen 5:10 . . After the birth of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and
    begot sons and daughters.

    You know, some of these guys really didn't accomplish very much. All they
    seemed to do was reproduce. But the important thing is: they made a line to
    Messiah and, as is the duty of patriarchs, preserved whatever sacred
    teachings were handed down from their fathers.

    Gen 5:11 . . All the days of Enosh came to 905 years; then he died.

    (yawn) Over and over again. Just about everybody reproduces in chapter
    five. And just about everybody dies too.

    Gen 5:12-20 . .When Kenan had lived 70 years, he begot Mahalalel.
    After the birth of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and begot sons
    and daughters. All the days of Kenan came to 910 years; then he
    died. When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he begot Jared. After the
    birth of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and begot sons and
    daughters. All the days of Mahalalel came to 895 years; then he died.

    . . .When Jared had lived 162 years, he begot Enoch. After the birth
    of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and begot sons and daughters. All
    the days of Jared came to 962 years; then he died.

    Four of those men-- Enoch, Jared, Mahalalel, and Kenan (Cainan) --are
    listed in Christ's genealogy at Luke 3:37-38.

    Gen 5:21 . .When Enoch had lived 65 years, he begot Methuselah.

    Methuselah's name is Methuwshelach (meth-oo-sheh'-lakh) which is a
    compound word made up of math (math) which means an adult (as of full
    length or full size), and shelach (sheh'-lakh) which means a missile of
    attack, i.e. a spear, sling stone, or perhaps an arrow. Methuselah was a
    man-size weapon rather than one that might be employed by little children.

    Today our preferred missile of attack from a hand held weapon is the bullet.
    A Methuselah bullet would probably be known today as a magnum.
    Magnums cost more than normal ammo but hit harder, go further, and
    cause more damage (they're louder too). A modern name that might
    correspond to Methuselah is Long Tom-- a nickname often given to very
    large canons. Maybe they meant to call him Big Guy because he was such a
    heavy newborn.

    Gen 5:22-23 . . After the birth of Methuselah, Enoch walked with
    God 300 years; and he begot sons and daughters. All the days of
    Enoch came to 365 years.

    Enoch was a fiery preacher, speaking the words recorded in Jude 1:14-15;
    warning people prior to the Flood that Almighty God intends to hold people's
    feet to the fire some day.

    Gen 5:24a . . Enoch walked with God;

    Enoch was the exact opposite of Cain: he walked with God rather than away
    from God.

    This is the very first man on record who is actually said to have walked with
    God; though no doubt Abel did too.

    Those who are outwardly religious, but don't actually walk with God, might
    be wise to give this next little saying some thought.

    Ye call me Lord and respect me not.
    Ye call me Master and obey me not.
    Ye call me Light and see me not.
    Ye call me Way and walk me not.
    Ye call me Life and choose me not.
    Ye call me Wise and heed me not.
    Ye call me Kind and love me not.
    Ye call me Just and fear me not.
    If I condemn thee, blame me not.

    On the page of Scripture, Enoch isn't said to walk with God until after his
    little boy Methuselah was born; suggesting perhaps that parenthood gave
    him cause to ponder his manner of life thus far.

    Gen 5:24b . . then he was no more, because God took him away.

    The Hebrew word for "no more" is 'ayin (ah'-yin) which is primarily a
    negative indicating that one minute Enoch was on earth, and the next he
    wasn't.

    It's difficult to ascertain from so little information in the book of Genesis
    whether Enoch died of natural causes or the hand of God; but according to
    Heb 11:5, he didn't undergo death at all but was instantaneously transferred
    from this life to the next; apparently leaving behind no remains for his
    family to bury.

    It's assumed by many that Enoch was taken to heaven; but according to
    Christ; no man had been to heaven prior to himself. (John 3:13)

    Gen 5:25-27 . .When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he begot
    Lamech. After the birth of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and
    begot sons and daughters. All the days of Methuselah came to 969
    years; then he died.

    Ol' Methuselah holds the record for longevity. He outlived his son Lamech,
    dying five years after him in the very year the Flood came; when
    Methuselah's grandson Noah was 600.

    Whether or not Methuselah died in the Flood or by natural causes is not said.
    However, he may indeed have perished in it right along with all of the rest of
    Noah's relatives. Just because men are listed in Messiah's genealogy doesn't
    necessarily mean they were righteous. In point of fact, some of the Davidic
    kings in Jesus' line were totally incorrigible men beyond remedy. (e.g. Jer
    22:24-30)

    /
     
  17. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 5:28-32

    Gen 5:28-29 . .When Lamech had lived 182 years, he begot a son.
    And he named him Noah, saying: This one will provide us relief from
    our work and from the toil of our hands, out of the very soil which
    the Lord placed under a curse.


    The word for "Noah" is from nuwach (noo'-akh) and means: rest or quiet.
    But not the kind of quiet one might find in a sound-proof room. More like the
    tranquility a person would experience by getting away from anxiety, fear,
    conflict, and toil.

    Lamech speaks as one fatigued with the business of living, and as one
    grudging that so much energy, which otherwise might have been much
    better employed in leisure, entertainment, or self improvement, was
    unavoidably spent in toil and labor necessary simply to survive back in that
    day.

    Lamech undoubtedly saw that Noah was a very special boy; the next
    patriarch after himself. Perhaps he hoped Noah was the promised seed of
    the woman; the one who would crush the Serpent's head, remove the curse,
    and restore the Earth to its former prosperity and glory; thus making for
    Man a much more enjoyable experience than the one he is subjected to for
    now.

    "I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing
    with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager
    longing for the revealing of the sons of God; for the creation was subjected
    to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope;
    because the creation itself will be set free from its slavery to decay and
    obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God." (Rom 8:18-21)

    "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so
    that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that
    He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven
    must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has
    spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began." (Acts
    3:19-21)

    According to Acts 3:19-21, men have been pounding pulpits since the very
    beginning, and all of the prophets, ever since Abel, have looked ahead in
    anxious anticipation to Messiah's intervention in world affairs and bringing
    into existence a much better world than the one that is now.

    Gen 5:30-32 . . After the birth of Noah, Lamech lived 595 years and
    begot sons and daughters. All the days of Lamech came to 777
    years; then he died. When Noah had lived 500 years, Noah begot
    Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


    Lamech escaped the Flood by a mere 5 years. It came when Noah was 600
    (Gen 7:6).

    Shem was the next patriarch after his dad Noah. But the names of all three
    boys are given probably because of the role they will play in re-populating
    the Earth after the Flood. The Bible doesn't say that Shem, Ham, and
    Japheth were especially good men. They survived the Flood in spite of their
    character only because they got aboard the ark with their dad when it was
    time for the rain to begin. If they had mocked, and remained on land with
    the rest of the world, then they would have certainly drowned right along
    with everyone else in spite of their ancestry.

    So; were Mr and Mrs Noah childless until Noah was 500 years old? Probably
    not. The other kids, if there were any, didn't count as far as God was
    concerned, and, if there were any, they perished in the deluge. Being related
    to holy men like rabbis, pastors or deacons doesn't guarantee a ticket to
    safety. Everyone has to make their own personal decisions in that regard
    (e.g. Gen 19:12-14). God commands all people everywhere to repent.
    Refuse, and it's curtains; no matter how important, nor well connected, your
    relatives might be.

    /
     
  18. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross New Member

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    Noah was 601 years old when the flood was over. Shem's son, Arpachshad was born 2 years after the flood was over so Noah would have been 603 years old when he was born. We also know that Shem was 100 years old when Arpachshad was born.

    Genesis 11:10-11: - When Shem was a hundred years old, he became the father of Arpachshad two years after the flood; Shem lived after the birth of Arpachshad five hundred years, and had other sons and daughters.

    That means that Shem was born when Noah was 503 years old.
     
  19. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 6:1-2

    Gen 6:1-2 . . Now it came about, when men began to multiply on
    the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons
    of God saw that the daughters of men were good; and they took
    wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

    The Hebrew word for "good" in that passage is towb (tobe) which is the very
    same word that Genesis utilizes to evaluate God's handiwork in creation;
    e.g. Light (Gen 1:4) Land and Seas (Gen 1:10) Vegetation (Gen 1:12) Sun,
    Moon, and Stars (Gen 1:18) Birds and Aquatic Life (Gen 1:21) Beasts and
    Bugs (Gen 1:25) and the finished product. (Gen 1:31)

    Towb is one of those ambiguous Hebrew words that can be utilized as either
    a noun or an adjective in a wide variety of applications. It can indicate
    morality, it can indicate a tasty meal, it can indicate a job well done, it can
    indicate a nice man, it can indicate a pretty dress, it can indicate a shapely
    woman and/or a handsome man, and it can indicate an expert musician
    and/or a really groovy song like Lady Gaga's "Bad Romance"

    In my judicious estimation, when God's handiwork turned out "good" towb
    indicates that the cosmos-- and all of its forms of life, matter, and energy -
    came out just the way God wanted it to; perfectly suited to the purposes He
    had in mind when He designed everything. But in this case; I think it's pretty
    safe to assume towb indicates a woman's looks.


    NOTE: Ambiguous Hebrew words like towb serve to illustrate why it's
    virtually impossible to translate Hebrew into English with 100% verbatim
    precision. No linguist in his right mind would dare to say that English
    versions of the Hebrew Old Testament are perfect word-for-word renditions
    of the original manuscripts-- no; they can't even be certified perfect word
    for-word renditions of the available manuscripts let alone the originals.

    The precise identity of the "sons of God" has been debated. Some say they
    were the sons of the aristocracy of that day who married attractive women
    from among the commoners. Others say they were renegade spirit creatures
    who cohabited with humans to produce a hybrid strain of hominid freaks.

    Others say they were believing men who threw caution to the wind and built
    themselves harems of irreverent women instead of marrying believing
    women of like faith; viz: the men married infidels-- implying that "daughters
    of men" were women who didn't fear the Bible's God. (e.g. Gen 26:34-35)

    Intermarriage between men of faith and infidel women is as old a practice as
    adultery; and a proven tactic for watering down, compromising, and even
    extinguishing Bible beliefs and practices (e.g. Num 31:7-16). The people of
    God are strictly, unequivocally, and clearly forbidden to marry outside their
    faith. (Deut 7:1-4, 2Cor 6:14-18)

    In a mixed relationship-- one a believer and the other an infidel --the
    believer will be forced to compromise their convictions in order to keep the
    relationship going. Compromise in the area of spiritual values is not a good
    thing for God's people. It's not only bad for the conscience, but will quickly
    ruin a believer's relationship with their Lord. (1John 1:6)

    Most people want love, romance, companionship, and a family of their own.
    According to Gen 1:27-28, and Gen 2:21-24, those things are Divine
    blessings, they're perfectly normal and nothing to be ashamed of; nor is
    there anything intrinsically naughty or sinful about them. But a believer has
    to be self controlled, and not permit their base nature to make them lose
    their heads and ruin their chances for happiness.

    Adult dating is where it starts. And adult dating isn't harmless. It leads to
    other things, and it leads into commitments and promises that are not easily
    reneged. The end result of adult dating is ultimately marriage and children
    (quite possibly illegitimate children). Whose spiritual philosophy will prevail
    in the marriage? Whose spiritual philosophy will be taught to the children?
    The believer's or the infidel's? And ultimately, who will get the children's
    souls-- God, or the Serpent?

    Some couples try to accommodate each other's beliefs by teaching their
    children the concepts of both religions. For example, a marriage between a
    Buddhist and a Christian. The children are given a choice between the Bible
    and the Four Noble Truths; and between Christ and Siddhartha Gautama,
    and between resurrection and reincarnation. That may seem like a good
    idea, but it only creates confusion in the minds of the children. Why are
    mom and dad not in agreement? Whose religion is right? Can both be right?
    Does it mean that one religion is just as good as the next?

    Wives can be very effective in influencing an otherwise pious man to
    compromise his convictions (e.g. Gen 3:6). All too often, in a mixed
    marriage, the mother's religion will be taught to her children because
    husbands, as a rule, put a higher priority on sex and peace in the home than
    religion, so they won't risk alienating mama by forcing the issue.

    The sons of God in Noah's day-- whose wives were chosen based solely upon
    sex appeal sans any spiritual prudence whatsoever --all perished in the
    Flood right along with their infidel wives and children. Not a one of them had
    the good sense to go aboard the ark with Noah.

    It's never wise for believers to marry outside their faith. A good example is
    Solomon. He got off to a good start but down the road accumulated a harem
    of foreign women who led him into idolatry; which subsequently caused The
    Lord to engineer rebellion in the kingdom. (1Kgs 11 & 12)


    NOTE: What might we get by crossing a sequoia cactus with a raccoon?
    Nothing because the genetic chemistry of the cactus is incompatible with
    that of a raccoon. What might we get by crossing a spirit being with a
    human being? Nothing because the genetic chemistry of a being consisting
    of spirit is incompatible with that of a being consisting of matter. I should
    think that anyone with even average intelligence would have little trouble
    understanding that it's impossible to get a woman pregnant by injecting her
    womb with air.

    "Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your
    thinking be adults." (1Cor 14:20)

    /
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017 at 8:37 AM
  20. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 6:3-4

    Gen 6:3a . . And Yhvh said: My Spirit shall not strive with man
    forever

    Some translations have "abide" instead of strive. But the Hebrew word is
    diyn (deen) which means: to rule; by implication: to judge (as umpire); also
    to strive (as at law). It can also mean to plead the cause of; or to contend in
    argument.

    So. How did "My Spirit" accomplish this striving with man? In person
    Himself? No; just like He always has: via a holy man.

    "Noah, a preacher of righteousness" (2Pet 2:5)

    According to 1Pet 3:18-20, the Spirit of Christ and My Spirit are one and the
    same spirit. In point of fact; according to 1Pet 1:10-11, all the Old
    Testament preachers (a..k.a. prophets) were motivated by the Spirit of
    Christ. (cf. Rom 8:9 and 1Cor 6:19 where the Spirit of Christ and The Spirit
    are again seen as one and the same spirit)

    Anyway, point being: there does come a time when God's patience runs out.
    Not because He can't take it anymore, but because when human beings
    become too decadent and too incorrigible, then any more reasoning with
    them would be like throwing good money after bad; and risky too.

    "Do not give what is sacred to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before
    swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to
    pieces." (Matt 7:6)

    It's sad but true: there are people out there so devoid of spiritual values that
    they're practically feral.

    Contrary to the mushy, sob-sister brand of Christianity going around like
    swine flu, there is a time when forgiveness is not only impractical, but it's
    also unreasonable. Hell is populated with people who will never, ever be
    forgiven. They crossed a line and now there's no going back; ever. God no
    longer has any interest in their welfare. They are forgotten and ignored; and
    can expect neither pity nor sympathy from God ever again.

    Gen 6:3b . . for they are only flesh.

    The problem with flesh is it's brevity. Because people eventually die, God
    has a limited amount of time to work with them before they pass on.

    Gen 6:3c . . yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty
    years.

    Some feel that God set the limits of human longevity in that verse. But
    people still continued to live long lives for a great number of years
    afterwards. Even Abraham, who lived many, many years after the Flood,
    didn't die till he was 175 years old. It's far more reasonable to conclude that
    God was announcing a deadline; viz: they had 120 years left to get ready to
    meet their maker. But you think that alarmed anybody? Heck no. They went
    right on; business as usual.

    "And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of
    Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in
    marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and
    destroyed them all." (Luke 17:26-27)

    Gen 6:4 . .There were giants on the earth in those days, and also
    afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men,
    and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who
    were of old, men of renown.

    The Hebrew word for "giants" in that passage is nephiyl (nef-eel') or nephil
    (nef-eel') and I have no clue why the KJV's scholars translated it giants
    because it doesn't mean that at all. For one thing; it's an ambiguous word
    with more than one meaning. It can indicate someone who cuts, knocks, or
    brings things down, or a killer; and/or bullies and tyrants.

    Now; granted that some bullies are big guys; but not all tyrants are big
    guys. Take for example Kim Jong-Un of North Korea, He isn't especially
    imposing but Mr. Jong Il sure knows how to exercise power excessively and
    brutally.

    In other words: nephiyl doesn't necessarily indicate a special race of people;
    but simply people whose ambition is to dominate others; even if they have
    to completely destroy their culture and kill them all off to do it; viz: nephiyl
    personalities are not good followers nor are they very good team players. It
    can be accurately said of nephiyl personalities that they would rather rule in
    hell than serve in heaven. In other words: if they can't conquer God, then
    they would just as soon have nothing to do with Him.

    Historical examples of nephiyl types would be men like Genghis Khan of
    Mongolia, and Alexander the Great of Greece; Napoleon of France, Peter
    Alekseyevich Romanov of Russia, Chandragupta Maurya of India, shogun
    Minamoto no Yoritomo of Japan, conquistador Hernando Cortes of Spain,
    Timur: founder of the Timurid dynasty, and Zahir-ud din Muhammad Babur:
    founder of the Mughal dynasty that ruled the Indian subcontinent for over
    three centuries.

    Q: If all the nephiyl types drowned in the Flood; then how did their
    characteristics manage to resurface down the road?

    A: Well; from whence did nephiyl types originate in the first place? Same
    place every other personality type originated: from Adam's genes; viz: since
    Noah and his wife, and his sons and their wives, were Adam's descendants,
    then nephiyl characteristics survived the Flood by riding it out in the DNA of
    the people aboard the ark.

    /
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017 at 9:28 PM
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