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Featured Kicking Off With Genesis

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Webers_Home, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 8:20-21c

    Gen 8:20a . .Then Noah built an altar to the Lord

    This is the very first mention of an altar in the Bible. I don't really know if
    anyone else constructed one before this. Abel and some of the others may
    have, but it's very difficult to be certain. At any rate, Noah's altar was
    dedicated to Yhvh rather than to one of the heathen deities people
    worshipped prior to the Flood-- and according to Rom 1:22-23 there were

    Gen 8:20 . . and, taking of every clean animal and of every clean
    bird, he offered burnt offerings on the altar.

    This is the very first mention of the burnt offering. The Hebrew word is 'olah
    (o-law') which means: a step (or collectively, stairs, as ascending); or a
    holocaust (as going up in smoke).

    The burnt offering was the very first sacrifice of any kind involving worship
    in the new world; and it set the tone for Yhvh's future association with
    mankind in the years to come. How Noah knew about the 'olah can only be
    attributed to revelation. But what's odd about the 'olah is that the word itself
    doesn't show up in Scripture again until the Akedah scene in the 22nd
    chapter. (the Akedah is the traditional title of Abraham's offering of his son

    Although 'olah can indicate a step (or collectively, stairs, as ascending); it's
    improper to construct an altar with stairs (Ex 20:24-26) so that the
    ziggurats that man eventually constructed were of course offensive to God
    not just because ritual murders were conducted on them but also because
    they were essentially stairways to heaven.

    Killing and burning on such a scale as Noah's can be taken as a ritual
    intended to dedicate the post Flood world to God; sort of like the quantity of
    Solomon's sacrifices that he offered to dedicate the new Temple. (1Kgs

    Gen 8:21a . .The Lord smelled a pleasant odor,

    Anyone who has ever been in the kitchen when something is burning on the
    stove knows that overcooked meat does not give off a pleasant odor. A
    scented candle smells a whole lot better. But the chemical odor of the burnt
    offering really has little to do with it. The expression "a pleasant odor" is a
    biblical colloquialism that means just the opposite of something that's
    objectionable; for example: "I hate that woman's opinions about men. They

    Gen 8:21b . .Then the Lord said in His heart: I will never again
    curse the ground for man's sake,

    True, Yhvh never again cursed the ground; but neither did He lift the original
    curse that was pronounced in the third chapter. The first curse remains, but
    at least God hasn't put additional burdens on the soil. According to Rev
    22:3, the first curse is slated to be removed once and for all.

    Gen 8:21c . . although the imagination of man's heart is evil from
    his youth;

    Albert Einstein once stated: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over
    again and expecting different results."

    Had God encumbered the ground with additional curses He would have been
    entirely justified in doing so because the Flood did nothing to rectify the
    intrinsically evil condition of the post-Eden human heart. However, God is a
    sensible person not easily given to futility.

  2. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 8:21d-22

    Gen 8:21d . . nor will I ever again destroy every living being, as I
    have done.

    All the living things in this case refers to that which survives by means of the
    breath of life. (Gen 6:17, Gen 7:22)

    The promise is qualified by the phrase "as I have done"

    So Gen 8:21 doesn't mean God will never again destroy all the living, nor
    that He will never again destroy the Earth-- only that He won't repeat the
    method He employed the first time. (Gen 9:11)

    In point of fact, next time, it's by fire rather than water.

    "The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the
    heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with
    fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned

    . . . Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of
    persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness; looking for
    and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being
    on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
    (2Pet 3:10-12)

    NOTE: The blackball temperature produced by a thermo-nuclear device is
    something like 180,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit. Just imagine if God were to
    turn the atomic structure of the entire universe into one great big self
    destructing thermo-nuclear device. The noise, and the heat, generated by
    such a detonation would be beyond one's comprehension.

    Gen 8:22 . . So long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest,
    cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night shall not cease.

    The promise of Gen 8:22 was prefaced by "so long as the earth endures."
    Well; the Earth is definitely not permanent. It is in fact running out of time.
    But until the Day Of The Lord, everything will proceed as normal; which can
    be dangerous because people are easily lulled by the routine of status quo
    and fail to look far enough ahead and get ready for the future. (cf. Luke

  3. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 9:1-3

    Gen 9:1 . . God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: Be
    fertile and increase, and fill the earth.

    Divine blessings should never be construed as laws, rules and/or commands.
    They're typically expressions of good will and/or empowerment. God
    included Noah in the blessing so that he and his wife could have more
    children if they wanted; but there's no record of any additional progeny.

    The blessing God bestowed upon Noah's family is the very same blessing
    bestowed upon the Adams in the very beginning. Here in chapter nine is the
    beginning of a new generation. This new generation-- springing from Shem,
    Ham, and Japheth --has continued for a good many years and won't end
    until everything Christ predicted in Matt 24:1-44 comes to pass.

    The word for "fill" is from male' (maw-lay') and as-used in Gen 1:22, Gen
    1:26-28, and Gen 6:11-13 doesn't strictly mean refill or replenish. It just
    means to fill or to be full of; and can apply to a bucket that's never been
    used as well as to a bucket that's just been emptied; or to a bucket that's
    half empty (or half full, depending upon one's outlook).

    Here in chapter nine, male' is indicative of a pioneering family that would
    start afresh under different circumstances than those of the antediluvian
    world. The Noahs were essentially a transition team, bringing human life
    from the old world to the current one. The new conditions effecting Shem,
    Ham, and Japheth's generation include a change in Man's diet, his alienation
    from the animal world, and the introduction of criminal justice.

    Gen 9:2a . .The fear and the dread of you shall be upon all the
    beasts of the earth and upon all the birds of the sky-- everything
    with which the earth is astir --and upon all the fish of the sea;

    In the beginning, the animal world was willingly subordinate to Man's
    sovereignty. But no longer. I don't know how He did it, but God instigated
    anarchy in the animal world so that now all is in chaos; and most, if not all,
    species do not respect Man as their ruler; no, they view Man as a predatory
    beast whose existence is a threat to their own,

    But the animal world isn't so mistrusting of Man that it cannot overcome its
    fears enough to co-exist with him; even to the point of utilizing humans for
    nourishment; as Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend Amie Huguenard
    discovered firsthand in 2003 when they were devoured by a Grizzly bear.

    Gen 9:2b . . they are given into your hand.

    On the surface, this doesn't appear to be a new turn of events since Man
    was put fully in charge of the animal kingdom right from the gun (Gen 1:26
    28). However; I believe the phrase "given into your hand" indicates that
    nature would no longer be passive and submissive; but that Man would have
    to conquer nature if he wished it to bring it under his control.

    Gen 9:3 . . Every creature that lives shall be yours to eat; as with
    the green grasses, I give you all these.

    Man doesn't have to eat every living thing if he doesn't want to-- it's
    optional; since Gen 9:1-3 is clearly a blessing rather than a commandment.

    Apparently the inclusion of meat in Man's diet after the Flood was intended
    primarily as a source of natural supplements to make up for the human
    body's gradually lessening ability to manufacture all it's own essential
    vitamins; much the same reason that modern vegans resort to synthetic
    supplements in order to avoid contracting deficiency diseases.

    According to an article in the Dec 10, 2013 Science section of the New York
    Times, scientists believe that the early human body was able to manufacture
    all of its own essential vitamins; but over time gradually lost the ability to
    manufacture all but K and D.

    That seems plausible to me seeing as how Noah lived to be 950 years old,
    but by the time of Abraham, the human life span had decreased
    considerably to 175; which the Bible describes as a ripe old age (Gen 25:7
    8). Well, Noah at 175 was about equivalent to Abraham at 32; so the human
    body was obviously a whole lot stronger back in Noah's day than it was in

    Incidentally, the Hebrew words for "green grasses" includes tender young
    shoots rather than only the adult plants. An excellent example of a shoot is
    asparagus. We typically only harvest the spears because the adult plant is
    not only a hideous bush, but it's not even tasty.

    NOTE: Bible students are often curious about the disparity between what
    was right and wrong for Noah and what was right and wrong for Moses since
    the laws of God are supposedly absolutes in any era. But God-given diets
    are what's known as "dispensational" which means they're in effect for only
    a specific era, and oftentimes only for a specific people. For example: it's
    wrong for Moses' people to eat vultures, pigs, and/or lobsters, octopus, and
    clams; while for Christ's people, it makes no difference.

    Dispensations are an important aspect of Man's association with God; and
    failure to discern them can sometimes lead to unnecessary confusion in
    peoples' minds.

  4. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 9:4

    Gen 9:4 . .You must not, however, eat flesh with its life-blood in it.

    That restriction is against life-blood; so then blood that cannot support life
    dead blood --is exempt.

    Life-blood, is actually blood that's alive; blood that hasn't begun to spoil;
    viz: it's still fresh enough for a transfusion and contains enough active
    ingredients to carry oxygen and heal wounds.

    Ancient Jews understood that verse to mean it is unlawful to eat meat that
    isn't dead; viz: it isn't merely uncooked; it's still viable-- fresh enough for a
    successful graft.

    T. But flesh which is torn of the living beast, what time the life is in it, or
    that torn from a slaughtered animal before all the breath has gone forth, you
    shall not eat. (Targum Jonathan)

    The way I see it: Man isn't forbidden to dine upon raw meat; only that it
    absolutely has to be dead with no chance of recovery. Same with blood. This
    law is the very first law God laid down in the new world after the Flood. It
    has never been repealed, and remains among the list of primary laws
    imposed upon Christians.

    "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything
    beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed
    to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual
    immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Fare well." (Acts 15:28

    A strangled animal still has all of its blood in it. The animal might be brain
    dead, and its heart may have stopped beating, but its flesh will remain alive
    for some time by reason of the viable blood still in its veins. Recent changes
    to CPR procedures include no longer giving victims mouth-to-mouth
    respiration for the first few minutes because the blood in a victim's system
    still contains useful oxygen that can save their life merely by pumping the
    chest as before.

    Noah's Law #1 forbids Man to eat living flesh and living blood; and
    Christians are no exception. Because of the danger of pathogens, it was
    quite possibly necessary to add this limitation to the grant of liberty to eat
    meat, lest, instead of nourishing his body by it, Man should inadvertently
    destroy himself; and in this day and age of E.coli 0157:H7, E.coli 0104:H4, and
    salmonella; adequately cooking meat can be considered a form of self

    The prohibition against eating living flesh and blood is neither Jewish, nor is
    it Christian. It's universal; because God enacted that law long before there
    were any Jews or Christians. All human beings are under its jurisdiction. Man
    can eat all the raw meat he wants; and he can eat blood too; but he has
    absolutely no permission to eat either blood or meat that's still alive.

    The animal world isn't so fussy. They routinely devour their prey alive all the
    time. Hopefully no one reading this will ever stoop that low. The very best
    way to assure that meat and its blood are dead is to cook it-- thoroughly;
    and double check it with a meat thermometer.

    At issue with the prohibition against eating blood are the feelings of some
    that modern slaughter houses don't always kill animals properly. Many use a
    device called a captured-bolt to stun the animals and then workers slit the
    animals' throats while they're unconscious. Sometimes the bolt kills an
    animal instead of knocking it out and then all that the slaughter house has
    to work with is gravity because the animal's heart isn't pumping to assist. So
    there are those who feel no one should eat common meat because you can't
    guarantee the animal's blood was properly drained.

    Exactly what the definition of "properly drained" is I don't know because it's
    impossible to drain every last drop of blood out of meat no matter how you
    might go about it; so the prohibition against eating blood has got to be
    interpreted from a practical perspective rather than from a purist's

    There are cultures that poke holes in cows' necks in order to drink blood
    straight out of the animal utilizing its own blood pressure like a tap to fill
    their cups. Other cultures cut open the thorax of animals freshly taken in
    hunting in order to take blood-soaked bites of the animal's heart. Those
    examples are probably about as close to vampirism as one can get without
    actually joining Edward Cullen's family and undergoing the conversion

    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  5. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 9:5-6

    Gen 9:5 . . But for your own life-blood I will require a reckoning: I
    will require it of every beast; of man, too, will I require a reckoning
    for human life, of every man for that of his fellow man!

    Noah's Law #2 mandates capital punishment; viz: eye-for-an-eye retribution
    for the unjustified killing of a human being. This law is also a universal law
    and applies to every family of Man and Beast that descends from the ark; no

    God requires an investigation into the death of a human being whenever it is
    caused by another human being or by a member of the animal kingdom. If
    the killing cannot be justified, the perpetrator has to be executed at the
    hands of human beings: no exceptions.

    Gen 9:6a . .Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his
    blood be shed;

    The death penalty here in Gen 9:6 is mandatory only for murder; which
    Webster's defines as: the crime of unlawfully killing a person; especially with
    malice aforethought. The key word in that definition is "unlawfully"

    Capital punishment for murder isn't optional. The word "shall" indicates an
    edict: and anybody who thinks they're in step with God while actively
    opposing the death penalty has another think coming.

    Q: Don't you think it's better to lock all murderers away for life rather than
    risk taking the lives of those who are innocent?

    A: It is never better to disobey God. The first couple did, and you see what
    that got them.

    Disobedience is on a scale with dark arts and the worship of Shiva and

    "Has the Lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying
    the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed
    than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and
    insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. (1Sam 15:22-23)

    In war, commanders expect a percentage of casualties by human error
    and/or friendly fire; and those kinds of casualties are usually factored in as
    acceptable losses. But it isn't wise to turn off a war off just because
    somebody might get hurt by friendly fire. Accidents happen; even under
    ideal conditions.

    It's the same with the war on crime. Just because a percentage of innocent
    people get executed for something they didn't do, is no excuse to get in bed
    with the Devil and oppose God's edicts as per Gen 9:5-6.

    America's justice system, although far from perfect, has a pretty good
    batting average. The overwhelming majority of people dead from executions
    fully deserved what they got. Only a tiny percentage are victims of error;
    and those percentages should always be considered acceptable losses in any
    legitimate endeavor to protect domestic tranquility.

    Gen 9:6b . . For in His image did God make man.

    Interesting. So then; indiscriminate killing wasn't banned because it's
    immoral, but rather, because it demeans the honor and dignity of God.
    Apparently, were humanity lacking His image, people could go on safari and
    stalk each other like game animals and mount human heads as trophies of
    the hunt.

    "People can tame all kinds of animals and birds and reptiles and fish, but no
    one can tame the tongue. It is an uncontrollable evil, full of deadly poison.
    Sometimes it praises our Lord and Father, and sometimes it breaks out into
    curses against those who have been made in the image of God." (Jas 3:7-9)

    James criticized the cursing of humans not because it's immoral, but
    because it demeans the honor and dignity of God.

    The image of God lends humanity a measure of divinity that it wouldn't have

    "You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory
    and honor and put everything under his feet." (Heb 2:7-8)

    Without that measure of divinity, humanity would just be another among
    many air-breathing species.

    Refusal to pursue the death penalty for murder denigrates the sanctity of
    Almighty God. So don't ever let anyone tell you capital punishment for
    murder is wrong. No; capital punishment for murder isn't wrong; au
    contraire, capital punishment for murder is divine.

  6. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 9:7-19

    Gen 9:7 . . Be fertile, then, and increase; abound on the earth and
    increase on it.

    The idea conveyed here is that Man was not supposed to unite and stay in
    one place, but to scatter, diversify, and establish communities all over the

    Gen 9:8-10 . . And God said to Noah and to his sons with him: I
    now establish My covenant with you and your offspring to come, and
    with every living thing that is with you-- birds, cattle, and every wild
    beast as well --all that have come out of the ark, every living thing
    on earth.

    Noah's covenant is an especially interesting covenant because it was made
    with both Man and Beast: all living things wherein is the breath of life.

    Are people today Noah's offspring that were to come? Yes they are. So we
    should pay attention to what God told Noah and his sons. "My covenant"
    applies to everyone; and all the critters too. In fact, all living beings in the
    post-Flood world are under the jurisdiction of the covenant God made with
    Noah and his family.

    Gen 9:11 . . I will maintain My covenant with you: never again shall
    all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall
    there be a flood to destroy the earth.

    Noah needed to hear that so he wouldn't get jumpy the next time it started
    to rain really hard in his neighborhood. There is still flooding going on in the
    world, but certainly not on the same scale as the Flood.

    Gen 9:12-17 . . God further said: This is the sign that I set for the
    covenant between Me and you, and every living creature with you,
    for all ages to come. I have set My bow in the clouds, and it shall
    serve as a sign of the covenant between Me and the earth.

    . . .When I bring clouds over the earth, and the bow appears in the
    clouds, I will remember My covenant between Me and you and every
    living creature among all flesh, so that the waters shall never again
    become a flood to destroy all flesh.

    . . .When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the
    everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures, all flesh
    that is on earth. That, God said to Noah, shall be the sign of the
    covenant that I have established between Me and all flesh that is on

    Some people say Noah had never seen a rainbow before because they don't
    believe it ever rained in the antediluvian world. But even if it didn't rain,
    rainbows aren't restricted to rainy weather. They can be seen in water falls,
    fog, and even in icy air. Since the antediluvian world got some of its
    irrigation from mists, there's a pretty good chance Noah had seen at least
    one rainbow by the time he was six hundred years old.

    Noah's covenant is still in force; as evidenced by the significant presence of
    rainbows in prophetic visions. (e.g. Ezek 1:27-28, Rev 10:1-4)

    Next time you see a rainbow, think of ol' grandpa Noah and think of God's
    promise-- to Noah, to his progeny, to all peoples on this side of the Flood,
    and to every creature --that the Earth will never again be destroyed by
    water. And remember capital punishment for murder, and remember that
    the animal world is accountable for taking human life.

    And when you risk contracting E.coli 0157:H7 and/or E.coli 0157:H4 by
    eating a fast food hamburger made with chicken-droppings-fed, over
    crowded, antibiotic treated, up-to-their-knees in manure, industrially
    produced beef; or risk contracting salmonella by eating a tasty dish of under
    cooked, Teriyaki chicken made from mass-produced, genetically altered,
    antibiotic-fed, overcrowded, factory-farmed broilers; remember it was God's
    blessing that gave our world the green light to eat flesh so that beginning in
    the last half of the 20th century, everyone from thenceforth could dine on
    tainted meat.

    Gen 9:18 . .The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem,
    Ham, and Japheth-- Ham being the father of Canaan.

    Stay tuned for more about Mr. Canaan.

    Gen 9:19 . .These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the
    whole world branched out.

    It's remarkable that every ethnic, every tribe, every color, and every
    language, is rooted in just those three men. Every existing human being is
    alive today from the gene pool of Noah's boys and their wives-- Caucasian,
    Negro, Mongol, Asian, Semite, Aleut, Indians of the Americas, Pacific
    Islander; and even the Pigmies. Everybody is related to one of those three
    boys, and also related to each other in Noah.

    Whenever there is war, it is truly brother against brother. The phrase "fellow
    man" is not just a feel-good, slap on the back acceptance of someone you
    might normally feel superior to or despise beyond reason; no, it's an
    expression that identifies human beings you are verily-- though possibly
    quite distantly --related to.

    All the physical characteristics of the different nations and various tribes,
    must, therefore, have been present in the genetic constitutions of just those
    three men and three women. Somehow, by the regular mechanisms of
    genetics-- variation, adaptation, mutation, and recombination --all the
    various groups of nations and tribes developed from that meager post-Flood
    human beginning.

    But what about Mr. and Mrs. Noah? Didn't they have any more children?
    After all, Noah still had about three hundred years left to go in his life. Well .
    . if the Noah's did have any more children, they must have been all girls
    because the writer said the world was populated by only those three

    So if indeed there were Noah girls, they had to find husbands from among
    their cousins. Those early post-Flood conditions fostered very close
    intermarriages; but it was harmless in those days because the human
    genome was still yet relatively young, strong, and uncontaminated.

    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  7. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 9:19-22a

    Gen 9:20a . . Noah, a tiller of the soil,

    There was a time when a large percentage of Americans grew their own
    food, but it's come to the point when some kids don't even know that where
    their food comes from.

    For example; as a young graduate student, Steven L. Hopp, co-author of
    Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, lived in an urban neighborhood where his little
    backyard vegetable garden was a howling curiosity to the boys who ran wild
    in the alley. One day, as Steven pulled a nice long fresh carrot out of the
    ground, one of the boys asked him how it got in there.

    So after explaining some fundamentals of farming, Steven asked the boy if
    he could think of another vegetable that grows in the ground. After
    consulting with his posse, the boy responded: spaghetti?

    Later in life, Steven's wife used to take her children's friends out back to the
    family garden to warm them up to the idea of eating vegetables; but the
    strategy sometimes backfired. They'd back away slowly saying: Oh
    maaaaan! those things touched dirt! Ewwww!

    Accustomed to shopping with their moms in a well-lit, shiny supermarket
    stocked with pre-washed, pre-sorted, neatly piled vegetables, the kids were
    brought up to believe that all dirt is 100% unsanitary; and really, how could
    you blame them when every advertisement they see on television for
    sanitizers, cleansers, and detergents always portray dirt as bad?

    It's not just kids who are uninformed about agriculture. When author
    Barbara Kingsolver once submitted some material to an editor, the editor
    nixed the part in the story about pineapples growing out of the ground. The
    editor insisted they grew on trees.

    In another incident, one of Barbara's friends expressed amazement when
    told that peas, potatoes, and spinach were "up" in Barbara's garden. The
    friend wanted to know how potatoes could be "up" since to their knowledge
    potatoes grew down in the ground rather on the surface. The friend was
    seriously taken aback to discover that potato plants have stems and leaves.

    Gen 9:20b . . was the first to plant a vineyard.

    Was Noah the first ever to plant a vineyard? I strongly suspect verse 20
    means that he was just the first one to raise grapes in the new world; not
    the first ever in all of human history.

    Gen 9:21a . . He drank of the wine and became drunk,

    How often did Noah drink and pass out? I ask because the wrath of God isn't
    upon drinkers per se; but upon heavy drinkers.

    "Woe to those who rise early in the morning to run after their drinks, who
    stay up late at night till they are inflamed with wine. They have harps and
    lyres at their banquets, tambourines and flutes and wine, but they have no
    regard for Yhvh's deeds, no respect for the work of His hands." (Isa 5:11

    I'm unaware of any woe to those who've had too much to drink. No; it's the
    people who subsist on alcohol that get the bad marks; for example:

    "It happened, as she continued praying before Yhvh, that Eli watched her
    mouth. Now Hannah spoke in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice
    was not heard. Therefore Eli thought she was drunk. So Eli said to her; How
    long will you be drunk? Put your wine away from you!" (1Sam 1:12-14)

    Eli suspected that Hannah was a wino; which is very different than just
    getting hammered now and then. In other words: I seriously doubt that
    Noah was a candidate for AA. He was just a guy who let his wine sneak up
    on him.

    I once knew a girl in high school with such a low tolerance for alcohol that
    just one can of ordinary beer made her start acting silly. She was by
    nobody's definition either a wino or an alcoholic; just a regular girl who liked
    to have fun on Friday night with the other kids.

    "Joseph took servings to them from before him, but Benjamin's serving was
    five times as much as any of theirs. So they drank and were merry with
    him." (Gen 43:34)

    The Hebrew word for "merry" in that verse is from shakar (shaw-kar') which
    means to become tipsy; viz: to satiate with a stimulating drink. It might
    surprise some people that God gave Man grapes for that very purpose.

    "You make the grass grow for the cattle, and herbage for man's labor that
    he may get food out of the earth-- wine that cheers the hearts of men" (Ps

    Some folk object that the Bible doesn't say Joseph and his brothers drank
    wine at that meal. Well; if those with that objection can come up with
    another beverage in the book of Genesis besides wine that had enough
    wallop to make Joseph and his brothers tipsy; I might be persuaded.

    NOTE: Noah's episode with the wine didn't disqualify him from becoming one
    of three most righteous men in the Old Testament. God still placed him right
    up there alongside Job and Daniel at Ezek 14:12-20.

    So apparently some people's idea of a righteous man is not same as God's
    idea of a righteous man. The focus in this incident isn't upon Noah's conduct
    anyway; it's upon his son Ham's.

    Gen 9:21b . . and he uncovered himself within his tent.

    Noah wasn't a flasher. And he was indoors; passed out in the privacy of his
    own home. Plus the Bible only says he was uncovered; it doesn't say
    whether it was his front side or his backside that Ham is about to gaze upon.

    Noah's home at this point in time was a tent; which isn't the typical domicile
    of a man who farms. Nomads live in tents, farmers live in houses. Vineyards
    take time to grow to maturity and a nomad isn't likely to wait around long
    enough for that. So why was he living in a portable shelter instead of a
    permanent building?

    At this particular time, Noah's home was probably under construction. No
    doubt he put a higher priority on his livelihood than on his quality of life. A
    nice home is a senseless luxury when there's no food on the table.

    "Finish your outdoor work and get your fields ready; after that, build your
    house." (Pro 24:27)

    Gen 9:22a . . Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's

    What if Ham had barged in on his mother like that? Didn't anybody ever
    teach that man to knock or call out before entering someone's bedroom?
    What was he doing sneaking around in there anyway?

  8. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 9:22b-25a

    Gen 9:22b . . and told his two brothers outside.

    Ham wasn't just a little kid who stumbled into his parents' bedroom. He was
    a grown man, married, and quite possibly by this time his son Canaan was
    already born. Catching his dad naked was probably an innocent enough
    accident; but Ham couldn't let it go. No, he just had to broadcast it and
    make sport of his dad. Good grief, you'd think he would at least pull the
    covers so no one else would see his dad in that condition.

    Ham didn't seem to respect his dad very much. It's a very black-hearted
    demon's seed who takes pleasure in opportunities to mock their parents. I
    wonder if that's what Ham felt as he gazed down at his dad. Did it actually
    make him feel good to see the old gentleman wallowing in disgrace?

    So although the Flood wiped out sinful people, it didn't wipe out sin did it?
    No, sin survived, and stowed away aboard the ark within the very family of
    Noah; the most righteous man on Earth; before the Flood and after the
    Flood. (cf. Ezk 14:13-20)

    Gen 9:23 . . But Shem and Japheth took a cloth, placed it against
    both their backs and, walking backward, they covered their father's
    nakedness; their faces were turned the other way, so that they did
    not see their father's nakedness.

    Good lads! Those two men respected their dad and did the right thing by
    him. It's only too clear that Ham despised his father. You know, when you
    love people, you won't demean them, nor ridicule them, nor wish them
    disgrace, nor do anything at all that might tarnish their reputation. Love
    reveals itself by always looking out for the best interests of others.

    Ham's act is seen even more reprehensible when juxtaposed with the Flood.
    Noah's ark saved Ham's bacon, and this is how his son repaid the favor?
    When Noah got off the ark, he reciprocated God's kindness with gratitude
    and burnt offerings. Ham reciprocated his father's kindness with mockery
    and public disgrace. There are those among the Serpent's seed, as were
    Cain and Ham, who hate good simply for the very good's sake; viz: good
    disgusts them.

    Gen 9:24-25a . .When Noah woke up from his wine and learned
    what his youngest son had done to him, he said: Cursed be Canaan;

    I'd imagine that Canaan objected very strongly upon hearing a curse
    pronounced upon himself when it was not him but his dad who embarrassed
    grandpa. What did Canaan do to deserve a curse? Not a thing. Then why did
    Noah curse Ham's son instead of cursing Ham? The answer to that is located
    in the passage below:

    "Yhvh, Yhvh: a God compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding
    in kindness and faithfulness; extending kindness to the thousandth
    generation-- forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; yet He does not remit
    all punishment; but visits the iniquity of parents upon children and children's
    children unto the third and fourth generation." (Ex 34:6-7)

    Parents' progeny aren't imputed guilt for their parents' conduct, but they do
    sometimes become collateral damage when God goes after the parents. For
    example the Flood. No doubt quite a few innocent children drowned in that
    event due to their parents' wickedness. The same happened to the children
    in Sodom and Gomorrah. And during Moses' face-off with Pharaoh, God
    moved against everything that pertained to the man; including, but not
    limited to, his economy, his land, his livestock, his citizens, his citizens'
    children, and his own children. It's a very disturbing biblical fact of life that
    sometimes God gets back at the parents by going after things that pertain to

    For example; God took the life of David's innocent little baby boy to get back
    at his father for committing the capital crimes of premeditated murder and

    Another example is located in the 16th chapter of Numbers where not just
    the rebels were punished; but their entire families and all their belongings
    were swallowed by a fissure that God opened in the ground beneath their

    A close call is recorded in the book of Jonah. Had not the adults in Ninevah
    changed their ways, something like 120,000 little children would have
    perished; not to mention all the cattle. According to Jonah 4:11, taking out
    children and dumb animals is not something that God enjoys. But there is a
    mysterious element to absolute justice that apparently compels Him to do it.

    The antediluvian's case, Ham's case, Sodom and Gomorrah's case, David's
    case, Pharaoh's case, Korah's case, and Ninevah's case lead me to suspect
    that God's chosen people caught up in the Holocaust weren't caught up as
    retribution for their own sins; but rather; as retribution for the sins of past
    generations; which also tells me that the status of God's chosen people isn't
    something to be proud of; but rather; something to be afraid of because
    moths that fly too close to the flame risk getting their wings burned seeing
    as how the covenant's God doesn't practice favoritism.

    "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; therefore, I will
    punish you for all your iniquities." (Amos 3:2)

    In other words: among the various human communities on earth; Yhvh's
    people have the least excuse for their impieties due to their privileged
    association with God and their ready access to the knowledge of His will.

  9. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 9:25b-27

    Gen 9:25b . . the lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers.

    That's a very derogatory remark, and more likely a colloquialism or a
    metaphor rather than a literal prediction; sort of like the one God made
    regarding the Serpent; that it would crawl on its belly and eat dirt; viz:
    henceforth be regarded the lowest sort of filth imaginable. Well, that was
    Noah's prediction regarding Canaan; and it came true. The people of the
    land of Canaan became so abhorrent that God, in Deut 7:1-5 and Deut 18:9
    14, commanded Yhvh's people to drive them out, to exterminate them, to
    reject their religions, and to avoid assimilation.

    Gen 9:26a . . And he said: Blessed be Yhvh, the god of Shem;

    Yhvh (The Lord) is said to be Shem's god. But Yhvh is not said to be the god
    of either Ham or Japheth. Shem is the only one of the three brothers of
    whom it is said "Yhvh, the god of" perhaps implying that the Bible's God
    didn't become Shem's god just because the family he was born into
    worshipped that particular god, rather because Shem personally chose the
    Bible's God to be his god. A lot of adults are in a religion simply because
    that's the one they grew up with.

    Gen 9:26b . . let Canaan be a slave to them.

    The pronoun "them" would refer to the peoples that would descend from

    Gen 9:27a . . May God enlarge Japheth,

    That seems more a prayer than a prediction. Japheth is generally regarded
    as the father of several Gentile nations, most particularly the Romans and
    the Greeks, who became mighty world powers. Japheth seemed like an okay
    kind of guy who at least had a sense of propriety. People like him; even
    though maybe not particularly God-fearing, will listen to reason, and can
    often be persuaded to do the right thing. He proved at least that much when
    he assisted brother Shem to cover their dad's exposure in a discreet way. It
    is so cool to see someone wishing good for non-Jews so early in human

    Gen 9:27b . . and let him dwell in the tents of Shem;

    That doesn't necessarily mean Shem's people and Japheth's people would
    mingle and assimilate. The expression "dwell in the tents of" is a
    colloquialism sometimes used to denote compliance or conformity. Here's an
    example of just the opposite of what we might call dwelling in the tents of

    "Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would
    rather stand at the threshold of God's house than dwell in the tents of the
    wicked." (Ps 84:11)

    The "tents of the wicked" regards a life style that has no place in it for the
    Bible's God and doesn't allow His spirit an influence in one's personal life.
    The remainder of that Psalm is dedicated to the kind of people of whom we
    could say: dwell in the tents of Shem.

    "For The Lord God is sun and shield; The Lord bestows grace and glory; He
    does not withhold His bounty from those who live without blame. O Lord of
    hosts, happy is the man who trusts in You." (Ps 84:12-13)

    People who live in the tents of the wicked, and walk where the wicked walk;
    sure don't walk where Shem walks. Not all of Japheth's people would dwell
    in the tents of Shem of course. But the idea is that Japheth's people weren't
    totally a bad apple like Canaan's. Many of them would become God-fearing,
    moral, scrupulous, and upright-- though not all of course; but at least
    Japheth's progeny wouldn't prove 100% incorrigible.

    Gen 9:27c . . and let Canaan be a slave to them.

    Not all of Ham's descendants would become subservient to the people of
    Shem and Japheth. Only those in Canaan's line.

    Gen 9:28-29 . . Noah lived after the Flood 350 years. And all the
    days of Noah came to 950 years; then he died.

    Another righteous man bites the dust. Noah lived twenty more years than
    Adam, but nineteen less than Methuselah-- no doubt a great role model and
    a tremendous influence upon the minds of all his grandchildren. He surely
    must have had a huge brood of them in the new world by the time his 350
    post-Flood years ended.

    Guys like Noah prove a point. Just because someone is righteous is no
    reason to think that they shouldn't have to die. The human body has its
    limits. No matter how righteous somebody is, their body will eventually give

  10. twinc

    twinc Well-Known Member

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    it seems medical science is perplexed as to why a growing/improving body suddenly judders ans falters and fails - twinc
  11. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 10:1-32

    Gen 10:1 . .These are the lines of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the
    sons of Noah: sons were born to them after the Flood.

    Chapter ten is a tiresome list of genealogies that some have found
    interesting enough to devote entire books; generating a catalogue of nations
    connecting Noah's descendants to the ancient civilizations and even today's.
    But I'm going to comment upon only a few salient features.

    Gen 10:5 . .These are the descendants of Japheth by their lands--
    each with its language-- their clans and their nations.

    Diverse languages didn't appear right away. First came the tower of Babel. It
    was after that when people's languages became what we might call

    Gen 10:8-9 . . Cush was the father of Nimrod, who grew to be a
    mighty warrior on the earth. He was a mighty hunter before The
    Lord; that is why it is said: Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before The
    Lord. The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, Akkad
    and Calneh, in Shinar.

    At first, mankind was scattered out in individual clans, and leadership was
    pretty much restricted to local patriarchal Dons and Sheiks.

    But Nimrod wasn't content with local rule. He was resolved not only to be
    head and shoulders above his neighbors-- not only to be eminent among
    them but to lord it over them.

    The same spirit that actuated the mighty men and the men of renown prior
    to the Flood, (by reason of whom the Flood came) now revived in Nimrod.
    There are some in whom ambition, achievement, and affectation of dominion
    seem to be bred in the bone. Nothing short of hell itself will humble and
    break the proud, domineering spirits of men such as those.

    Nimrod is interesting. He's a Nephilistic personage with humble beginnings:
    first as a professional hunter; probably supplying meat to frontier towns and
    selling pelts at trading posts. That was likely Nimrod's career path up until
    his exploits became famous and he began to realize it was far more
    profitable to go into politics.

    Lots of great men, some good and some bad, had humble beginnings--
    Abraham Lincoln, King David, and even Hitler. Timely circumstances, and
    fortuitous events, catapulted those blokes up to very high levels of control
    over their fellow men.

    A contemporary case in point is US President Barak Hussein Obama: a man
    who had little to no chance of winning a US Senate seat had it not been for
    his shoo-in opponent's carnal indiscretions.

    From thence, the voting public's disgust with the Republican party, coupled
    with their infatuation with the color of Mr. Obama's skin (he's not really
    Black, he's mulatto), practically assured his election to America's highest
    federal office. He was but a junior senator with like zero executive
    experience; yet there he was flying around the world in Air Force One.

    To this very day Nimrod is still known as the outdoorsman who would be
    king. He was such a famous icon of that day that his example became
    descriptive of others who worked their way to the top like he did-- men of
    vision, daring, energy, strong personal ambition, and dogged perseverance.

    The common personality trait, among such men, is their strong desire not
    just to govern, but to quite dominate people. There are those for whom it
    isn't enough to win; no, it isn't enough for people like that to win: everyone
    else has to lose. They don't want 50% market share, nor even 90% no,
    they're content with nothing less than 100%

    Actually, Nimrod was one of the great men of history, though so little is
    written about him. He was one of the first statesmen to successfully create a
    sort of European Union; and it was such a solid alliance that only divine
    intervention could bring it down.

    Gen 10:21a . . Sons were also born to Shem, ancestor of all the
    descendants of Eber

    Descendants of Eber (most notably Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) became
    known as Eberites: a.k.a. Hebrews.

    Gen 10:32 . .These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their
    generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided
    in the earth after the Flood

    What I find very interesting about the nations divided in the earth is their
    diversity of progress. When Europeans came to the continental US, they
    found indigenous peoples who were, from all appearances, perpetual cave
    men. They never had an iron age. Heck, no metal age at all; except maybe
    copper here and there.

    Long, long after the Neanderthals and the Cro-Magnons evolved into
    Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Spaniards, and Portuguese; the American
    Indian was still using stone tools, living in rudimentary shelters, and walking
    everywhere he went. His greatest obstacle to travel was distance because
    they had no horses. It was like they were a people whom time forgot.

  12. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 11:1-3

    Gen 11:1 . . Everyone on earth had the same language and the
    same words.

    The Hebrew word for "language" is from saphah (saw-faw') which means:
    the lip. The one for "words" is from dabar (daw-baw') which means: a word
    (as spoken or written)

    Spoken languages are a combination of words and lips; viz: vocabulary and
    pronunciation, i.e. accent and inflection. It's one thing to know the words of
    a language, but it is quite another to speak them with the correct
    pronunciation. In that day, everyone used the same words and spoke them

    Gen 11:2 . . And as they migrated from the east, they came upon a
    valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.

    The name "Shinar" was of course given later because these early migrations
    were to lands heretofore uninhabited. According to Gen 10:10, Shinar
    became Nimrod's turf.

    The amount of time elapsed between Noah's bender and this migration isn't
    stated in the Bible-- plus; there's really no way to tell which part of the
    world was "the east" in the author's day.

    Here in the USA, the Great Continental Divide is an east/west determinant.
    Funny thing is, if you're located in Phoenix Arizona, then Billings Montana is
    to your continental east even though geographically, it's almost directly
    north; so when you see directions like "east" and/or "west" in the Bible, it's
    probably best to NOT think compass directions.

    For example in the case of the Magi of Matt 2:1. As best as we can tell, their
    city was somewhere east of the meridian that runs north/south through the
    Jordan River Valley but that kind of an east is continental rather than
    geographical so there's really no telling where they came from.

    This particular migration was "from" the east; which means pioneers from
    among Noah's progeny, whose numbers at this point are totally unknown,
    went out west looking for greener pastures. Although the region of Shinar
    has not yet been precisely pinpointed, we can take a relatively educated
    guess at it.

    "In the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim of Judah, King
    Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon came to Jerusalem and laid siege to it. The Lord
    delivered King Jehoiakim of Judah into his power, together with some of the
    vessels of the House of God, and he brought them to the land of Shinar to
    the house of his god; he deposited the vessels in the treasury of his god."
    (Dan 1:1-2)

    The "Shinar" of Daniel's day is apparently the region where ancient Babylon
    was located. Babylon's location today is marked by a broad area of ruins just
    east of the Euphrates River, approximately 90 km (56 mi) south of Baghdad,
    Iraq. It's part of an area commonly known as the Fertile Crescent; a very
    large region arching across the northern part of the Syrian Desert and
    extending from the Nile Valley to the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. In the
    early post-Flood years, this region was very lush. But today much of it is arid

    Gen 11:3a . .They said to one another: Come, let us make bricks
    and burn them hard. (Brick served them as stone).

    Brick are blocks of clay or other ceramic used for construction and
    decorative facing. Bricks may be dried in the sun but are more usually baked
    in a kiln. They cost relatively little, resist dampness and heat, and can
    actually last longer than some kinds of stone.

    Brick was the chief building material of ancient Mesopotamia and Palestine.
    The inhabitants of Jericho in Palestine were building with brick about 9,000
    years ago (7,000 bc). That's about 5,000 years before Abraham's day.

    Sumerian and Babylonian builders constructed ziggurats, palaces, and city
    walls of sun-dried brick and covered them with more durable kiln-baked,
    often brilliantly glazed brick, arranged in decorative pictorial friezes. Later
    the Persians and the Chinese built in brick, for example, the Great Wall of
    China. The Romans built large structures such as baths, amphitheaters, and
    aqueducts in brick, which they often covered with marble facing.

    Gen 11:3b . . and bitumen served them as mortar.

    According to Webster's, bitumen is any of various mixtures of hydrocarbons
    (as tar) often together with their nonmetallic derivatives that occur naturally
    or are obtained as residues after heat-refining natural substances (e.g.

    The stuff can be deadly if one isn't careful because once your feet become
    stuck, they are very difficult to extract; as the museum at the La Brea tar
    pits in Los Angeles attests. But it's a handy building material too. Noah
    sealed the ark with a bituminous material, and Moses owed his life to it. (Ex

    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  13. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 11:4-5

    Gen 11:4 . . And they said: Come, let us build us a city, and a tower
    with its top in the sky, to make a name for ourselves; else we shall
    be scattered all over the world.

    Magnificent cities have a way of attracting tourism, commerce, and industry.
    People want to come and visit, and to live there. Politically, their scheme
    made good sense. More people equals more prosperity; resulting in more
    power and control over the region-- and of course the larger their tax base
    the more city services they could provide citizens; including an effective civil
    defense program.

    There's nothing really intrinsically wrong in building a large beautiful city.
    But in their case, it wasn't the right time for it. God wanted the post
    Flooders to move out and populate the entire globe, rather than accumulate
    in one local region.

    Towers served a variety of purposes in the ancient world. Some were used
    as look-outs, others were used as tombs, and yet others were used as
    bloody altars for human sacrifices.

    The purpose intended for the tower of Gen 11:4 isn't stated but guessing
    from the wording, I'd say it was intended to be a grand monument; sort of
    like the 630 foot stainless steel Gateway Arch in Ste. Louis Missouri, or a
    magnificent minaret like the 239-foot Qutab Minar in Delhi India. Something
    like that would certainly go a long ways towards getting the Shinarians the
    renown they sought.

    But their wish that the tower's top be in the sky suggests their primary
    motive was to use its facade to display a variety of gods popular in that day.
    There's towers like that right now that in the city of Madurai in the South
    Indian state of Tamil Nadu, located on the banks of River Vaigai.

    The towers are literally festooned with hundreds of gods. So if your favorite
    god is up there somewhere, there's no need for you to leave town and go
    on a pilgrimage elsewhere to worship. People love their religion. So if you
    give them the liberty and the means to practice it; they'll love you forever.
    Tolerance is good politics. If only Islamic fundamentalists understood this.

    Gen 11:5 . .Yhvh came down to look at the city and tower that man
    had built,

    That verse presents an interesting theological problem. Wouldn't it make
    better sense by saying Yhvh looked down, instead of saying the Yhvh "came"
    down? Why bother to come down? Doesn't the Bible's God see all and know
    all? Isn't God omniscient? Can't He see everything from right where He is?

    Yes, the Bible's God can do that alright; but a certain celestial being in the
    Old Testament scriptures-- often labeled Yhvh --is never God in person. It's
    a divine agent who goes by the name of God, stands in for God, speaks for
    God, speaks as God, reports to God, and takes care of God's business in this
    world of ours; for example:

    "I am sending an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you
    to the place that I have made ready. Pay heed to him and obey him. Do not
    defy him, for he will not pardon your offenses, since My Name is in him; but
    if you obey him and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies
    and a foe to your foes." (Ex 23:20-22)

    The name of that angel is his master's name, and actually, the words Moses
    heard spoken at Ex 23:20-22 were spoken by that heaven-sent messenger
    on behalf of his master. That mysterious being is not only an enigma; but
    also quite frightful as anyone who's studied its activities in the books of
    Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy can attest. In other words:
    wherever the name Yhvh appears in the texts of those books; it's that
    mysterious angel.

    "Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the
    elders of Israel: and they saw the God of Israel: and there was under His
    feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of
    heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel He laid
    not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink." (Ex 24:9-11)

    Did they really see the actual God? No.

    "He said: thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see Me, and
    live." (Ex 33:20)

    "You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form." (John

    What Moses and his entourage saw was the mysterious celestial messenger
    whose name is his master's.

  14. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 11:6-25

    Gen 11:6 . . and Yhvh said: If, as one people with one language for
    all, this is how they have begun to act, then nothing that they may
    propose to do will be out of their reach.

    I don't think Yhvh objected to the people's unity per se. I mean, after all; it's
    Christ's wish that his church be unified (John 17:1-26, 1Cor 1:10). I think
    what He objected to was the direction that humanity's unity was taking; and
    it was no doubt similar to the direction depicted below.

    "Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the
    earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against Yhvh and
    against His anointed. Let us break their chains-- they say --and throw off
    their fetters." (Ps 2:1-3)

    Gen 11:7 . . Let us, then, go down and confound their speech there,
    so that they shall not understand one another's speech.

    "let us" is the language of Gen 1:26 when God created man. Exactly who
    accompanied Yhvh on this mission isn't stated; but it's difficult to imagine
    Him traveling solo without an entourage of some sort. (cf. Gen 28:12 and
    Matt 25:31)

    Gen 11:8 . .Thus the Lord scattered them from there over the face
    of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.

    The language barrier was only a temporary delay because later on the city of
    Babylon was eventually built. But at this point in time, the world had no
    choice. It was just impossible to continue. Incidentally; the entire world has
    never again been unified in a singular endeavor like it was on that tower.

    Gen 11:9 . .That is why it was called Babel, because there the Lord
    confounded the speech of the whole earth; and from there the Lord
    scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

    In time, people did branch out and colonize the whole planet. But barely
    anything is said in the Bible about the world in the years between Babel and

    Gen 11:10a . .This is the line of Shem.

    Well; that's pretty much about it for the other brothers. From now on, the
    Bible will direct its focus mainly upon Shem's line. But not all. Just specific
    ones that are connected to Abraham's covenant; and ultimately to Messiah.

    Noah was a pretty simple kind of guy. He probably tore apart the ark for its
    wood and built a home, and barns, and whittled fence posts and split rails to
    corral his livestock. The rest of the ark's lumber he could distribute to his
    sons and grandchildren for their own ranches after setting aside enough
    firewood for many years to come.

    He more than likely stayed pretty close to where the ark went aground and
    remained behind when the others migrated out west. After all, if Noah could
    raise food right where he was, plus his grapes, then why move away? He'd
    seen it all anyway and lived the adventure of a lifetime.

    Gen 11:10b . . Shem was 100 years old when he begot Arpachshad,
    two years after the Flood.

    That would make Shem about 97 years old when the flood began.

    Gen 11:11 . . After the birth of Arpachshad, Shem lived 500 years
    and begot sons and daughters.

    Each of the patriarchs probably had at least as many daughters as well as
    sons even though girls' names are rarely listed in the record.

    Gen 11:12-25 . .When Arpachshad had lived 35 years, he begot
    Shelah. After the birth of Shelah, Arpachshad lived 403 years and
    begot sons and daughters . .When Nahor had lived 29 years, he
    begot Terah. After the birth of Terah, Nahor lived 119 years and
    begot sons and daughters.

    Included in the genealogy of Gen 11:12-25 was a man named Eber. His
    name carries on to this day in a people well known as Hebrews; for the Old
    Testament word for Hebrew is 'Ibriy (ib-ree'); which means an Eberite; viz:
    a descendant of Eber.

    At that point in time, the human life span was beginning to decrease.

    Noah lived 950 years (about the same as his antediluvian forebears), but
    Shem lived only 600. It became even worse by the time of Nahor; who only
    lived to 148. Today, even the healthiest among us begins to decline as early
    as our mid thirties; with an average life expectancy of not even 80. This
    problem has baffled scientists for years and no one seems to know yet just
    why our body cells age and deteriorate so fast. Whoever solves that problem
    will get very rich from it, that's for sure.

    God introduced tongues during the Tower Of Babel incident to break up
    world unification. Apparently it was God's judgment that world unification in
    those days was not a good thing. Well; the language barrier remains in place
    today; so I'm assuming that world unification in our day is still not a good

    In other words: today's world is an imperfect world. But according to 2Pet
    3:1-13 and the 21st chapter of Revelation, a new world order is on its way;
    a perfect world that can be trusted with unification so there will be no need
    for a control measure to thwart global rebellions against God and all that He
    stands for.

    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  15. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 11:26-29

    Gen 11:26-27 . .When Terah had lived 70 years, he begot Abram,
    Nahor, and Haran. Now this is the line of Terah: Terah begot Abram,
    Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begot Lot.

    By the time of Terah, Shem's line had slipped away and no longer
    worshipped Yhvh in spite of their solid spiritual heritage.

    "Then Joshua said to all the people: Thus said the Lord, the God of Israel;
    "In olden times, your forefathers-- Terah, father of Abraham and father of
    Nahor --lived beyond the Euphrates and worshiped other gods." (Josh 24:2)

    Because their dad worshipped other gods, the two brothers, Abram and
    Nahor, grew up as idolaters until Noah's god stepped in and broke the chain:
    appearing to Abram, and instructing him to leave his relatives, and get out
    of Ur.

    One has to wonder what happened with Terah. His grandfathers Shem and
    Noah actually came off the ark and saw the Flood for themselves but that
    was waaaaay back when. Time has a way of turning history into legend; and
    anon into myth, folklore, and superstition.

    NOTE: One of the problems associated with the credibility of the Flood is
    finding evidence for it; and a significant portion of that problem is related to
    the Flood's duration. The actual downpour lasted a mere forty days; and the
    standing water was gone within a year; which just isn't enough time. It
    takes water millennia to erode permanent features in the earth's lithosphere.

    And on top of that, once the rain stopped, the Flood's waters were
    essentially static like a lake or a swimming pool. In order to cause erosion of
    any significance, water has to move; as a river or a stream, or as waves
    along the sea shore; not stand still.

    When I was a kid, the presence of sea shells and fossils way up on the sides
    and tops of mountains was thought to be evidence of the Flood, but now we
    know that they got up there by tectonic forces rather than by the Flood.

    You know it hasn't been all that long ago that people began putting some
    faith in continental drift. It's been barely a century since German
    meteorologist Alfred Wegner proposed that Earth's dry land had once been a
    single continent then gradually began separating. He was soundly mocked
    and dismissed by his contemporary scientific community.

    Not anymore they don't. Now pretty near all the geological scientists are in
    agreement that the earth's prominent mountain ranges were produced by
    the grinding, colliding, buckling, and subduction of massive sections of the
    earth's crust.

    Gen 11:28 . . Haran died in the lifetime of his father Terah, in his
    native land, Ur of the Chaldeans.

    The Grim Reaper cares not for the age of its victims, whether young or
    whether old. Haran died before his dad. Many a parent has buried their
    children before they even had a chance to live.

    You know, anybody can die; it's not all that difficult; and people don't have
    to be old nor do they have to be especially intelligent. Even the young, the
    inexperienced, and the stupid do it all the time.

    "For the wise man, like the fool, will not be long remembered: in days to
    come both will be forgotten. Like the fool, the wise man too must die." (Ecc

    "For the time of mischance comes to all. And a man cannot even know his
    time. As fishes are enmeshed in a fatal net, and as birds are trapped in a
    snare, so men are caught at the time of calamity, when it comes upon them
    without warning." (Ecc 9:10-12)

    "Your fathers, where are they? and the prophets: do they live for ever?"
    (Zech 1:5)

    Gen 11:29 . . Abram and Nahor took to themselves wives, the name
    of Abram's wife being Sarai and that of Nahor's wife Milcah, the
    daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah and Iscah.

    Nahor married a niece; the daughter of his brother Haran. And Abram,
    according to Gen 20:12, married a half sister; the daughter of his father
    Terah. Such close marriages were later forbidden in Israel's covenanted law.

    But as Genesis has shown all along, at this early date close marriages were
    neither forbidden nor particularly dangerous from a genetic point of view,
    and so were not uncommon. Adam's family married among themselves; and
    so did Noah's. They really had no choice about it. There just weren't any
    other people available for spouses at the time.

    Close inbreeding was neither a sin nor a problem in those days. But it sure is
    now. You wouldn't dare engender children with a sister or a brother or a
    niece nowadays. The risk of birth defects is just too high. It's notable that as
    longevity decreased, so did the margin of safety in marrying relatives. The
    quality of the human body was seriously deteriorating.

    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  16. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    In considering the Tower of Babel event, it certainly played out during the early life of Abraham and the Oral tradition, recorded in the Book of Jasher, and referenced by Joshua, tells of how Nimrod wanted to kill Abraham because He knew that the offspring of Abraham would be an influence for God in his lifetime.

    The scattering of the families from Ur of the Chaldeans occurred in Abraham's time and Haran had moved away from Ur and established his own town of Haran and some twenty or so years later he returns with one daughter and Lot to introduce them his father, their grandfather.

    There is much being left out of this account.
  17. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Continuing from post #115

    Genesis 11:30-31

    Gen 11:30 . . Now Sarai was barren, she had no child.

    This is the very first recorded incident of a human reproductive malfunction.
    Other than the reduction in longevity; the human body seems to have been
    running on all eight cylinders up to this point. But who was the problem; was
    it Abram or Sarai? It was Sarai because Abram later engendered a child by
    one of Sarai's servant girls.

    One of the first horrors the human family witnessed was Abel's death. No
    one had ever seen a human being dead before. And now this. A woman who
    couldn't conceive. It must have been stunning and unbelievable. All the
    women in history up to this point were cranking out babies like rabbits and

    But this was double bad for Sarai. Not only could she not have a family of
    her own, but you know how the tabloids feed on unusual events. Well . . this
    was one for the books. Sarai, in her day, was a true freak of nature.
    Everyone would point at her and whisper in hushed tones: Look! There she
    is! That's the one we saw on 20/20.

    She must have felt terribly inferior, and you can just imagine what that did
    to her self esteem too. Sarai was a gorgeous piece of work, but her womb
    had no more life in it than a stack of 8x11 Xerox paper.

    I'm a man; so how can I possibly understand Sarai's personal grief? Only
    another barren woman can understand what Sarai must have felt. There are
    women who don't care about children. But Sarai doesn't strike me as one of
    those. And even if she didn't care for children, it would have still been a
    comfort in her mind to know that at least she could have some if she wanted

    "There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not; "It
    is enough" -- the grave; the barren womb, the earth that is not filled with
    water; and the fire." (Pro 30:15-16)

    Gen 11:31a . .Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot the son
    of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram,
    and they set out together from Ur of the Chaldeans for the land of

    Ur's ruins are located approximately midway between the modern city of
    Baghdad Iraq, and the head of the Persian Gulf, south of the Euphrates
    River, on the edge of the Al Hajarah Desert. The site of Ur is known today as
    Tall al Muqayyar.

    In antiquity, the Euphrates River flowed near the city walls; and thus Ur was
    favorably located for the development of commerce and for attaining political
    dominance. The biblical name "Ur of the Chaldees" refers to the Chaldeans,
    who settled in the area about 900 BC. By the 4th century BC, the city was
    practically forgotten, possibly as a result of a shift in the course of the
    Euphrates River.

    Water played an important role in the location of ancient civilizations. The
    Sahara desert, for example, was once a pluvial region with lakes. When
    geological forces caused the loss of rainfall and surface water, the Sahara
    became the dry waste it's famed for today and consequently its inhabitants
    had to relocate.

    Ur was enclosed by oval walls thirty feet high, which protected not only the
    city, but two harbors as well. Sir Leonard Woolley discovered that the
    inhabitants benefited from well-planned streets, and houses with high
    standards of sanitation. They appear to have been constructed to remain
    cool in the hot summers and some may have been two-storied. House walls
    adjoined the streets. Homes featured an inner courtyard onto which their
    rooms faced; just like Judah's home in the Charleton Heston movie Ben Hur.

    Gen 11:31b . . but when they had come as far as Haran, they
    settled there.

    According to Gen 12:1, God took an interest in Abram while he was in Ur,
    before he left with Terah to travel to Haran. After sharing his vision with
    Terah, the dad quite possibly became interested in a new life himself, having
    recently lost a son. The land where he then lived held bad memories and,
    probably not wanting to lose touch with any more of his family if Abram
    were to move away, he suggested that they all travel together; which is a
    perfectly good idea considering the dangers they were likely to encounter en

    But the dad didn't have the heart for it really. The old gentleman decided to
    settle in Haran instead of going all the way to Canaan like the original plan
    called for.

    From Ur, Canaan is dead west and just about the same distance as Haran.
    But instead of going directly to Canaan, they went north, following the trade
    routes. I think I would have too. Terah's family was a lot safer going from
    town to town along the fertile crescent. It would take longer to get to
    Canaan, but they would be in better shape upon arrival.

    There are some who like to keep their foot on the gas and push on through
    when they travel. But that is very tiring. It's far better to stop often, eat,
    and rest before moving on. The towns along the northern route could
    provide them with needed supplies for the journey too.

    But Haran (modern Charran or Haraan) is too far out of the way really. It's
    clear up in Urfa Turkey on the trade route to Ninevah. Terah could have
    turned south a lot sooner and gone on down to Canaan via Damascus. But I
    think that by then, he'd lost interest in Canaan and decided that Haran was
    the place for him. And Abram, probably not wanting to leave his dad alone
    there, stayed on too.

  18. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 11:32

    Gen 11:32 . .The days of Terah came to 205 years; and Terah died
    in Haran.

    Terah lived a relatively long life for his day. His son Abram only lived to 175.

    But I sometimes wonder if Terah didn't cut his life short by staying in Haran.
    Did he forget about God's call to Abram to go to Canaan?

    Seeing as how Terah didn't serve Noah's god, rather, other gods (Josh
    24:2), it's only natural that he wouldn't take Yhvh's call seriously. Noah's
    god wanted Abram to live down in Canaan. But because of his dad, Abram
    didn't go there. How sad that parents can actually be a hindrance to their
    children associating with God whole heartedly.

    My own dad was a very bad influence upon my spiritual life. It wasn't until
    after I moved out, and he passed away, that my association with God really
    took off and went somewhere. He used to get so upset with me for taking
    the Bible too seriously; even blaming it for keeping me from getting ahead in
    life. And he constantly pressured me to marry women who were of a
    different religion than my own

    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  19. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Why did Terah all of a sudden, up stakes in Ur and travel towards the land of Canaan by going to Haran?

    He did so because his son Haran died unexpectedly while he was visiting his dad Terah, in Ur, and he needed to get to Haran to ensure that Lot received his inheritance, from his father's estate, in Haran. Terah, also left Ur because Nimrod was not happy with him and a quick exit from Ur was being wise on his part.

    From the oral tradition Nimrod was also wanting to kill Abraham. Abraham was probably around 50 years of age when Terah left with Abraham and Sarah to travel to Haran. While Abraham was in Haran he was able, over the ensuring 25 years, to amass large flocks, servants, herders and fighting men who would eventually travel with him down to the land of Canaan in tents.

    It would seem that Nahor brought up the rear in Terah's move from Ur to Haran bringing all of the family's possessions of flocks etc. with him at a much slower rate.
  20. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Continuing from post #118

    Genesis 12:1-3a

    Gen 12:1. .The Lord said to Abram: Go forth from your native land
    and from your father's house to the land that I will show you.

    Stephen said Abram was still living in Ur, and hadn't moved up to Haran yet
    when God called him to leave his kin (Acts 7:2-3). There's no record of any
    interaction with God all the while that Abram lived in Haran. Yhvh was silent,
    and waiting for Abram to get with the program and do as He said— leave his
    kin and head on out to a country of God's choosing. When he finally
    departed, Abram was not yet informed of his precise destination. (Heb 11:8)

    The Lord made several promises to Abram at this time.

    Gen 12:2a . . I will make of you a great nation,

    Greatness is arbitrary. Some say numbers best represent greatness, while
    others feel that accomplishments, prosperity, health, and contributions to
    mankind define greatness. In that last aspect; no other nation on earth has
    contributed more to the benefit of mankind than the people of Israel. It is
    through them that sinful men of all nations may obtain a full ransom from
    the wrath of God. Israel is also destined to become the seat of world power,
    economic prosperity, and the center for religious studies.

    Gen 12:2b . . And I will bless you;

    Abram became a very wealthy man; with enough male servants to field a
    respectable army. He also enjoyed long life and good health; and the
    admiration of his neighbors.

    Gen 12:2c . . I will make your name great,

    Nobody is more famous than Abram. Even people who never heard of
    George Washington, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, or Genghis Khan, know
    about Abram. He is connected to the three most prominent religions in the
    world: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And his name is always held in the
    very highest regard. Abram isn't known for nefarious deeds nor bloody
    conquests. He is known as the friend of God, and as a role model for all
    decent God-fearing people everywhere all over the world.

    Gen 12:2d . . And you shall be a blessing.

    There are some people that the world is well rid of like conceited
    entertainers, neighbors from hell, thin skinned defensive people with raging
    tempers, habitual liars, cry babies, people who falsify information, sully
    reputations, ruthless businessmen, con and scam artists, unscrupulous
    lawyers, crooked cops and dishonest politicians, insurance frauds, Wall
    Street sociopaths, managers on a power trip, hackers, and the like.

    But Abram was none of those. He was a very gracious, honorable man; the
    kind of guy you would thank God for. But most of all, Abram is the
    progenitor of Messiah— the savior of the world.

    "A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of
    Abraham" (Matt 1:1)

    Messiah is the one who makes it possible for sinners to escape the judgment
    of God. You can't be a better blessing than that.

    "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be
    lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God
    so cared for the world that he donated His one and only son, that whoever
    believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send
    His son into the world to condemn the world, but to rescue the world
    through him." (John 3:14-17)

    NOTE: The reference to Moses' serpent is located at Num 21:4-9

    Just as Moses' people were spared certain death by doing no more nor less
    than looking to Moses' serpent; so believers today are spared certain death
    in the reservoir of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:11-15 by doing no more nor
    less than looking to Christ's crucifixion.

    Gen 12:3a . . I will bless those who bless you, and curse him that
    curses you;

    That curse works both ways; viz: it prevents God from cursing Abram. This
    is very important because were God to curse Abram, for any reason, any at
    all; He would have to level a curse right back at Himself.

    God as much as granted Abram immunity from any, and all, of the curses
    listed at Ex 34:6-7, Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1 69 that God
    is obligated to slam Yhvh's people with for breaching the covenant that they
    agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

    Modern Judaism insists that Deut 29:14-15 retroactively binds Abraham to
    the covenant. But Deut 5:2-3 clearly exempts him.