Which KJV Bible was God’s perfectly preserved translation in English? The one in 1611 or one of the revisions in 1613, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, or the last one in 1850? Please specify which one.
What was God’s perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611? Please be specific in your answer.
If there was a perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611 why would God need to perfectly preserve a second one if the first one was perfectly preserved? Please give details and sources for these details.
If there was no perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611 why would God leave His people no perfectly preserved Word for 1611 years? Please give details and sources for these details.
Obviously, if you choose to “kitchen sink” the issue (i. e. throw every presumption and misdirect into the arena in an attempt to obfuscate and evade), then the truth will always be the first casualty.
But you certainly have hung in there longer than I expected. I discern from your so-called questions that you seem to have a certain desire to know the truth. The word of God tells us it is the truth that makes us free.
Although you still have not limited the discussion to a single question, the half dozen questions you’ve tossed out here are all related. So we’ll give it a go.
Let’s start with a reprise of the OP:
I am amazed at how apparently rational Christians can fall for [KJVO] false teaching...
...they are irrational and fanatical in their views...
What do you think?
You gotta laugh when you see that dead fish posing as gourmet food. An OP like that brings every vulture in to feed.
It is true that many KJV proponents do not fully understand the tenets of the position they claim to hold; they have not performed due diligence. This is where those to criticize the Holy Bible, aka textual critics, rule the day. Since those critics deny inspiration, all that remains for them is to argue over dead men’s bones -- an argument of which no born again believer should partake. And what a melee it is!
I am not “KJVO” -- never was. The recently invented “KJVO” label is a convenient strawman utilized by unsaved critics whose highest opinion is of themselves. They need
someone to brow beat, lest they lose their perceived status and stuff...
In your latest post here, you’ve fawned over your presumption of “perfectly preserved” at least a half dozen times. I pray the missive was not intentional.
1) Which KJV Bible was God’s perfectly preserved translation in English?
Wrong question. Rather, has God kept his promise to preserve his pure inspired word forever ala
Psalm 12:6,
7, or has he not? What is your reply?
2) ...The one in 1611 or one of the revisions in 1613, 1629, 1638, 1644, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, or the last one in 1850? Please specify which one.
Wrong question. Rather, there have
never been any 'revisions' of the KJV text.
In summary, the only changes to the KJV since 1611 are of three types:
- 1612: Typography (from Gothic to Roman);
- 1629 & 1638: Correction of typographical errors;
- 1762 & 1769: Standardization of spelling.
The Myth of Revision by David Reagan proves that lists published by KJV critics (e. g. Pirkle, Combs, et al.), purporting to show various or changed readings in KJV editions, are simply showing lists of typographical errors which had crept into one printing or another (which KJV translators Ward and Bols attempted to fix in subsequent printings).
3) What was God’s perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611? Please be specific in your answer.
His preserved word was always his vernacular Bibles!
In keeping with his promise, God's
vernacular (i.e. common)
Bible has
always 'come down from heaven ready-made' (as it were).
Sorry, critics,
but the KJB text-type is not to be confused with today's KJ Bible. Today, as the
vernacular Bible it is, the
KJB is a relatively
new arrival - not some forgone conclusion from antiquity i.e. it wasn't the 1611 KJB that "was translated by Greek & Hebrew scholars into the English language of their day." Thus, it shares no connection with men's copyrighted counterfeit "modern versions" of today.
The antiquity of the KJV
text-type is evidenced in Joseph Bosworth's
Parallel Gospels. It includes the Gothic version dated before A.D. 360, the Anglo-Saxon version dated between A.D. 600 and 900, the Wycliffe translation dated 1381, and the Tyndale dated 1526. Comparing them with the King James Version and the new versions quickly shows that the King James is
the text-type that has been used historically by the church as far back as the Gothic period, dated before A.D. 360.
Acts 2:6 says,
"Every man heard them speak in his own language." God has spoken to men around the world through a text like the KJV in the German Tepl Bible, the Italian Diodati Bible, the French Olivetan Bible, the Hungarian Erdosi Bible, the Spanish Valera Bible, the Polish Visoly Bible, the De Grave Bible in Holland, the Russian Holy Synodal Bible, the German Luther Bible, and the Gottshcalkson Bible of Iceland. These all agree with the King James Version.
4) If there was a perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611 why would God need to perfectly preserve a second one if the first one was perfectly preserved? Please give details and sources for these details.
He didn't need to, because it’s not about “English.” It’s about God preserving his pure inspired word forever (
Psalm 12:6,
7). That preserved inspired preserved word for English speakers today happens to be the Authorized Version.
5) If there was no perfectly preserved translation in English before 1611 why would God leave His people no perfectly preserved Word for 1611 years? Please give details and sources for these details.
By now, I trust you get the idea about God’s vernacular Bibles, and about why this is not anything to do with the current “KJVO” slide.
There are two
types of "earlier bibles" -- God's, and Satan's (just like today). By now you should understand that ALL of God’s vernacular Bibles are the word of God -- because they all come from the same text-type; whereas Satan’s corrupt minority text bibles die when their copyright holders die.
BTW, God has no use for any “originals,” otherwise he would have made certain that we had them today. Rather, the question remains, has God kept his promise?
The prevalent falsehood (the presumed necessity of a 'scholarly' search for the elusive "original") panders to the flesh and has resulted in much hemorraging within the Body of Christ via counterfeit versions.
For example, the NIV does not come from the overwhelming majority of texts (aka the Majority Text). Indeed, there is no modern English Bible translation which does! Rather, the NIV is based on the less than 1% of manuscripts (the "Minority Text") which have been exhaustively documented and rejected as corrupt. The NIV is no wholly Holy Bible.
And the survival of ‘the’ original Greek New Testament is a dream which dissolves with the discovery that not all manuscripts and critical editions are alike. Those applying this term to a Greek text on the bookstore shelf or internet site are unacquainted with the volatile state of the text.
There are over 5366 manuscripts of the Greek New Testament. A corrupt few (again, that less-than-1%, i. e. the Minority Text) give a view of the text much like a shifting kaleidoscope. They contain several hundred thousand variant readings. In an attempt to marry these ‘moody’ manuscripts, the ‘Wheel of Fortune’ is whirled and readings are selected for inclusion in what scholars call a ‘critical edition of the Greek text.’ There are more than two dozen of these texts, each a ‘prize’ stuffed with between 5000 and 8000 variations. As one scholar puts it, “...equally competent critics often arrive at contrary conclusions as to the same variation.”
The overwhelming majority (
over 99%) of these manuscripts, lectionaries and writers agree generally with each other as to the readings of the New Testament. Manuscripts from the second century (P66) down through the Middle Ages (A.D. 1500) attest to the readings of this
'Majority Text', as Kurt Aland terms it. Dean Burgeon, who found this 'Majority Text' in most of the early writers collated, calls it
"The Traditional Text.' It is also called the
Syrian Text, the
Byzantine Text and the
K (Kappa) or
Common Text.
This
text type is available today in English in the Authorized Version, or as it is called in the United States, the King James Version. It's
809,000,000 copies since 1611, in 300 languages, demonstrates the
continuum of this
'Majority Text'. (Unfortunately, once again, the new versions are not based on this "Majority Text', but on the dissenting handful of manuscripts (less than 1%) which disagree with the Majority).
In keeping with his promise, God's
vernacular (i.e. common)
Bible has
always 'come down from heaven ready-made' (as it were).
The KJB
text-type is not to be confused with today's KJ Bible. Today, as the
vernacular Bible it is, the
KJB is a relatively
new arrival - not some forgone conclusion from antiquity i.e. it wasn't the 1611 KJB that "was translated by Greek & Hebrew scholars into the English language of their day." Thus, it shares no connection with men's copyrighted counterfeit "modern versions" of today.
The antiquity of the KJV
text-type is evidenced in Joseph Bosworth's
Parallel Gospels. It includes the Gothic version dated before A.D. 360, the Anglo-Saxon version dated between A.D. 600 and 900, the Wycliffe translation dated 1381, and the Tyndale dated 1526. Comparing them with the King James Version and the new versions quickly shows that the King James is
the text-type that has been used historically by the church as far back as the Gothic period, dated before A.D. 360.
Acts 2:6 says,
"Every man heard them speak in his own language." God has spoken to men around the world through a text like the KJV in the German Tepl Bible, the Italian Diodati Bible, the French Olivetan Bible, the Hungarian Erdosi Bible, the Spanish Valera Bible, the Polish Visoly Bible, the De Grave Bible in Holland, the Russian Holy Synodal Bible, the German Luther Bible, and the Gottshcalkson Bible of Iceland. These all agree with the King James Version.
God's pattern has always been the same. He has
always given the COMMON MAN the COMMON BIBLE written in the COMMON LANGUAGE of the day to do one thing: evangelize the world. Today, that vernacular Bible is the uncopyrighted, free discourse King James Bible.
Remember, only a fair question is worthy of a truth-full answer.