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Armadillo

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Proverbs 1
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.



Proverbs 9
10 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.



Proverbs 4
7 Wisdom is the principal thing;
Therefore get wisdom.
And in all your getting, get understanding.




Thoughts?

o

My thoughts are probably not your thoughts, lol.

As a New Covenant believer, the word fear can be replaced with worship because being redeemed we are not in bondage to fear. Under the law, you shake with fear and under Grace, God is not feared but worshiped.

Luke 4:8, Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’

Jesus is quoting from Deuteronomy 10:20, Fear the Lord your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name.

So, is worship the beginning of wisdom?

Proverbs 9:10

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

changes to......

The worship of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
 
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Armadillo

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Well Armadillo,
When witnessing, everything you say is true.
You have to know when to speak, know when to be quiet, know when to listen, know when they're NOT INTERESTED and you're just going to turn them off even more.

How about on a forum like this?
What are we here for?

Is it to share knowledge?
Is it to judge each other and wait around till someone ASKS you a VERY specific question?

Should we speak if we know something?
Should we make believe we don't know and shut up?

There are persons reading along we know nothing about.
Are we here for them at all?
Do new Christians learn here or are we not being prudent if we speak?

What's the story?

All of the above.
 

Armadillo

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@Armadillo

P.S.

You posted this:

To be spiritually enlightened, to have spiritual discernment, it must come after the knowledge and not before the knowledge;

Are you being wise and prudent by saying this?
Who made up this rule?
What if someone has knowledge FIRST and then they decide to become Christian and get SPIRITUALLY enlightened?
I know a few that have done this.
Are you saying it's not possible?
Everything is possible with God, right?

You said that if one holds back what they know, when they are asked it will be perceived differently.

I don't find this to be true.
I like to say what I know. One could take it or leave it.
Why? You think YOU will ever change anyone's mind?

We plant. We water.
God grows.

I posted the Scripture on the how and why the statement was made.
 

Job

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As a New Covenant believer, the word fear can be replaced with worship because being redeemed we are not in bondage to fear. Under the law, you shake with fear and under Grace, God is not feared but worshiped.

The God of the New Covenant is the same God of the Old Covenant. Sin is still sin and is still punishable by death.

That's just what I believe. What you believe is up to you.


Matthew 10
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Hebrews 10
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Philippians 2
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

o
 

breathofdesire

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Let scripture interpret scripture, the Bible interpret the Bible and lean not unto your own understanding because what you know could be wrong and make you look a fool. This good, sound advice can be found in Proverbs.

Proverbs 12:23, The prudent keep their knowledge to themselves, but a fool's heart blurts out folly.

What is prudence? A Christian doesn't deny their faith, the sword comes down, and they are prudent but if they pretend to deny their faith and live, that is prudent too. Being prudent is a virtue, having prudence is understanding.

In the above Proverb, you hide what you know until you know when to reveal it and to blurt out what you know when answering a barrage of questions, it's tune out time for everyone involved. It is far superior to reveal knowledge when being led by the Holy Spirit to do so because in that way, what you share with others will be perceived differently and what is being revealed when it is drawn out of you will lead someone to believe what you say by their own accord or believe what you say because the Holy Spirit led them to believe it.

Proverbs 13:16, Wise people think before they act; fools don't--and even brag about their foolishness.

Are you wise? Are you prudent? In Christ, we get wisdom and then get prudent, which is understanding. When something is difficult to understand, it's a mystery, and we need the wisdom to get prudent and then we get the knowledge to understand the mysteries of God. To be spiritually enlightened, to have spiritual discernment, it must come after the knowledge and not before the knowledge; therefore, there is a progression of what to do with that knowledge.

1 Corinthians 1:30, But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

Ephesians 1:8, He has showered his kindness on us, along with all wisdom and understanding.

1. Wisdom
2. Prudence
3. Knowledge
4. Unlocking the mysteries of God

Proverbs 14:18, Simpletons are clothed with foolishness, but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.

What knowledge do you want to impart? Whatever the knowledge is, be sure to do it with love.

1 Corinthians 13:2, And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
I think your OP speaks for it's self, something to ponder. But what you said was sufficient for me not to make any follow up comments.
 
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mjrhealth

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Let scripture interpret scripture, the Bible interpret the Bible and lean not unto your own understanding because what you know could be wrong and make you look a fool. This good, sound advice can be found in Proverbs.
Actually it doesn't say that at all, bit li8ke circular reasoning, how do you know the age of teh dinosaur bones, ob by teh layer of soil they are found in, and how do you know the age of the layer, simple by the bones of the dinosaurs found in it.

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

That is how we learn, there is no other way to come into the truth.
 

Armadillo

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what does one fear? or better said fear the most? shouldn't it be the loss of what is valued most?

Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? 7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible. 8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.

consider all the lame reasons and justifications and insistence of freewill to go by their own judgement of what is good seeking the idols of their own understanding, that so called Christians spew out. they have no fear of losing the relationship with God because they don't seem to have one.

the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and knowledge by definition:
(OED)
Signification. The earliest sense goes with the original sense of knowledge v. But the word was app. soon laid hold of to supply a noun of action to know v., for which cnowunge, knowing, was in earlier use, and continued to be used in part.

I. Senses related to knowledge v. and early uses of know v.

†1. a. Acknowledgement, confession. b. Acknowledgement or recognition of the position or claims (of any one). Obs.
†2. The fact of recognizing as something known, or known about, before; recognition. to take knowledge of, to recognize. Obs.


notice "acknowledgement"; and even flesh can fear its master.

My response to this will be a bit long winded, sorry, not sorry.

In the Book of Malachi, the Jewish people had plenty of fear and in the 4th chapter, verse 2, the sun is capitalized and it is the Sun. The sun is a source of light and Jesus is the light, the Sun. The Sun, capitalized, is not found anywhere else in the Bible. The sun has healing rays, it's heated and when the Sun of righteousness arrives, He will have healing in His wings.

Malachi 4:2, But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

When the light of Jesus shines in your life, what is there to fear? That same light shines with healing, his light is shining within us to show us we are the righteousness of God in Christ. Knowing this, having the knowledge of this doesn't puff someone up, this knowledge is healing for your hurts and without this knowledge, you will hurt and live in fear. As we grow, fear should be driven out and we are made whole, healed.

Fear of losing relationship with God, fear of judgement, fear of illness, fear of not being good enough, fear of losing your mind does not come from God, 2 Timothy 1:7, For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Acknowledge this, you are the righteousness of God in Christ and acknowledgment is the confession, the good confession of being the righteousness of God in Christ.

1 Timothy 6:12, Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Acknowledge this, you are no longer a sinner, you are a saint, another good confession.

Ephesians 2:19, Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Christians confess and should be confessing all the time but is the confession a good one or is the confession with an Old Covenant mentality, confessing sins which New Covenant believers need not confess because you should have the knowledge that sin was dealt with 2000 years ago at the Cross but is there an understanding of that knowledge?

Micah 7:19, He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Hebrews 8:12, And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins."
 
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Armadillo

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Sin is still sin and is still punishable by death.

Our body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives life at the moment of belief in His Son. Sin has no power over a New Covenant believer, a believer is a new creation.
 
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Armadillo

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Philippians 2
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Working out my own salvation does me good, not you, and I am in awe of it.
 
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Armadillo

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Actually it doesn't say that at all, bit li8ke circular reasoning, how do you know the age of teh dinosaur bones, ob by teh layer of soil they are found in, and how do you know the age of the layer, simple by the bones of the dinosaurs found in it.

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

That is how we learn, there is no other way to come into the truth.

Grow in the Grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, 2 Peter 3:18.

Doesn't the mind need the Word for the sword to sharpen? The sword is a weapon that belongs to the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 6:17, Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Hebrews 4:12, For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
 
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Job

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Our body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives life at the moment of belief in His Son. Sin has no power over a New Covenant believer, a believer is a new creation.

Would you mind interpreting this passage? If sin has no influence over a New Covenant believer, how are they able to wander from the truth?


James 5
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.



o
 

Armadillo

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I think your OP speaks for it's self, something to ponder. But what you said was sufficient for me not to make any follow up comments.

Comment when the Spirit leads and don't comment when you are forced to or feel obliged to. That's wisdom! I think, lol.
 

Armadillo

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Would you mind interpreting this passage? If sin has no influence over a New Covenant believer, how are they able to wander from the truth?


James 5
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.



o

The first glaring thing for me is the term Brethren. Brethren refers to the early church Jewish Christians.
 

Job

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The first glaring thing for me is the term Brethren. Brethren refers to the early church Jewish Christians.

So that's your interpretation of that passage? "Brethren refers to the Jews"?

I thought there was a mention of sin in there somewhere? Could you comment on that please?

o
 

Armadillo

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So that's your interpretation of that passage? "Brethren refers to the Jews"?

I thought there was a mention of sin in there somewhere? Could you comment on that please?

o

Sorry to disappoint you on the interpretation but you would need to read the Book of James as a whole and not just toss out a passage that suits your agenda. The Book of James is written to the Jew and the theme is religion and many of them hadn't heard the message of grace or had the knowledge of grace, they still had the law for their righteousness and even James understood grace very little and with what little he knows about grace he quotes Proverbs 3:34, Surely He scorneth the scorners, but He giveth grace unto the lowly.

James 4:6, But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

It was the Apostle Paul that was given the revelation of God's grace. James and Paul had different audiences.

I don't focus on sin, I focus on the Savior.
 

Job

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James and Paul had different audiences.

Their audience is anyone who reads their words.

You guys are funny. Whenever you're confronted with a truth that contradicts your beliefs, you claim so & so wasn't talking to us, he was addressing the Romans, he was addressing the Jews, He was addressing the scribes and pharisees.

If that's that's your outlook on scripture, please note that none of the books in the bible are addressed to you personally.

o
 

Armadillo

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please note that none of the books in the bible are addressed to you personally.

Duly noted.

In Christ, there is a replacement theology, well worth the study. Everything got replaced by Christ and it's all in Him, not in you; therefore, the Bible isn't about you and it wasn't written to you but it is written for you and the Bible is all about Jesus.

Galatians 3:16, The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.

Galatians 3:29, If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

How do you interpret the above passages?
 

DPMartin

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My response to this will be a bit long winded, sorry, not sorry.

In the Book of Malachi, the Jewish people had plenty of fear and in the 4th chapter, verse 2, the sun is capitalized and it is the Sun. The sun is a source of light and Jesus is the light, the Sun. The Sun, capitalized, is not found anywhere else in the Bible. The sun has healing rays, it's heated and when the Sun of righteousness arrives, He will have healing in His wings.

Malachi 4:2, But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

When the light of Jesus shines in your life, what is there to fear? That same light shines with healing, his light is shining within us to show us we are the righteousness of God in Christ. Knowing this, having the knowledge of this doesn't puff someone up, this knowledge is healing for your hurts and without this knowledge, you will hurt and live in fear. As we grow, fear should be driven out and we are made whole, healed.

Fear of losing relationship with God, fear of judgement, fear of illness, fear of not being good enough, fear of losing your mind does not come from God, 2 Timothy 1:7, For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Acknowledge this, you are the righteousness of God in Christ and acknowledgment is the confession, the good confession of being the righteousness of God in Christ.

1 Timothy 6:12, Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Acknowledge this, you are no longer a sinner, you are a saint, another good confession.

Ephesians 2:19, Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Christians confess and should be confessing all the time but is the confession a good one or is the confession with an Old Covenant mentality, confessing sins which New Covenant believers need not confess because you should have the knowledge that sin was dealt with 2000 years ago at the Cross but is there an understanding of that knowledge?

Micah 7:19, He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Hebrews 8:12, And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins."


what does 4th chapter, verse 2, got to do with God declaring His right to be feared and honored. God said it I didn't but you've got a lot to say otherwise, correct?

though you probably don't see it but your are trying to replace God's entitlement to fear and honor with your entitlement to not do so, correct?

to speak freely before the Lord that He would hear you is by His permission, according to His Way, not by your entitlement to be heard, or healed.



Isa_57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

the OT is not obsolete, it is fulfilled in Christ Jesus, not in you or me. but if one receives the Life if Christ then the fulfillment should of the same is the possess, one Life replacing the other. but make no mistake Paul will tell you that the Justification of your existence is Jesus Christ.

lets reiterate what Paul says

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.



and as far as fear lets just see Paul instructions on that:


Eph_6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Php_2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

just because you maybe the result of God's work through His Son is His Righteousness via everything God does is Righteous doesn't make you righteous. God's work is Righteous, to restore you into His Righteousness, but no man other than the Son of God was ever righteous unless God's Word declared Him righteous and God's Word will be fulfilled and any man becomes righteous because of God's Word.


Rom_4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


Rom_4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,


it is the Presence of God with a man that makes the man dwell in the Righteousness of God.


Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

and again on fear:

and these are not words addressed to those who think themselves entitled:


Mat_5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Mat_5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
 
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twinc

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what does 4th chapter, verse 2, got to do with God declaring His right to be feared and honored. God said it I didn't but you've got a lot to say otherwise, correct?

though you probably don't see it but your are trying to replace God's entitlement to fear and honor with your entitlement to not do so, correct?

to speak freely before the Lord that He would hear you is by His permission, according to His Way, not by your entitlement to be heard, or healed.



Isa_57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

the OT is not obsolete, it is fulfilled in Christ Jesus, not in you or me. but if one receives the Life if Christ then the fulfillment should of the same is the possess, one Life replacing the other. but make no mistake Paul will tell you that the Justification of your existence is Jesus Christ.

lets reiterate what Paul says

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.




be aware and beware = 2 Timothy 3:7 - twinc




and as far as fear lets just see Paul instructions on that:


Eph_6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Php_2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

just because you maybe the result of God's work through His Son is His Righteousness via everything God does is Righteous doesn't make you righteous. God's work is Righteous, to restore you into His Righteousness, but no man other than the Son of God was ever righteous unless God's Word declared Him righteous and God's Word will be fulfilled and any man becomes righteous because of God's Word.


Rom_4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


Rom_4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,


it is the Presence of God with a man that makes the man dwell in the Righteousness of God.


Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

and again on fear:

and these are not words addressed to those who think themselves entitled:


Mat_5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat_5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Mat_5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
 

amadeus

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Our body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives life at the moment of belief in His Son. Sin has no power over a New Covenant believer, a believer is a new creation.
If this is true, what happens or has happened to old covenant believers? Is God a respecter of persons? Is God unfair? Has God changed?
 
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