Laodicea

[Prentis]

Hi all! :)

The Lord Jesus Christ says the following to the Church of Laodicea:
[sup]17[/sup]Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
[sup]18[/sup]I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

The fearful thing is that he is indeed speaking to christians, to believers. I fear that we have come to a time when most of the church believes itself to have riches in heaven, and even guarantee of those, but does not realize it is wretched, naked and blind. Being called of Christ, we must come at the feast with the proper vestments, otherwise we will be tied hand and foot, and cast into outer darkness.

I also think, living in times as these, that now more than ever (not less!), the prophets of God, those he raises up, will speak a hard message. The prophets are always hated, even by the very people of God, because they come and call men to an awakening of the spiritual reality we are surrounded with. We must be careful why we react to a hard message; the Jews did not like Jesus' message because they believed they were spiritually rich on the merits of another; Abraham. I fear many will receive the same response they did; 'If you were the sons of Christ, you would do the deeds of Christ.'

I write this to you all with love, in hope that we would seek Christ while he may be found, and serve him with fear and trembling, as faithful servants. May the Lord bless you with every spiritual blessing!

 

[rockytopva]

John Wesley once said that "When a man dies they ought to have enough to bury him and a few pence for his friends." John Wesley died with very little! He was annoyed at the American church in that they were veering off course from the getgo. With the Revolutionary War a raging there was little he could do about it. He did pen these words to Francis Asbury before he died...

“In one point, my brother, I am a little afraid you differ from me. I study to be little, you study to be great. I creep, you strut. I found a school, you must found a college. Oh beware, do not seek to be something. Let me be nothing and Christ be all in all. One instance of your greatness gives me great concern. How dare you, how can you, suffer yourself to be a bishop? I shudder, I start at the very thought. Men may call me a knave, or a fool, a rascal, a scoundrel, and I am content; but they shall never by my consent call me a bishop. For my sake, for God's sake, for Christ's sake, put a full end to this.”

So... This may have been the birth of the Church at Laodicea in its age. This church seemed at full effect with DL Moody and Ira Sankey making money off his book sales instead of donating it as Wesley did. This would set the pattern I believe for the Laodicean church... Which I believe was born here in America.

In which... I believe to be the last church before Christ coming!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7rTb4BJQsg

 

[Prentis]

Yes. :)

When we think we already have laid hold of every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies, we usually start holding on to earthly ones, thinking we can have both.

It is not even that the person is trying to do wrong, it is that the heart is deceitful! When we think we have arrived, we stop striving, and by this, I fear we fail to enter his rest.

 

[Jake]

We spend alot of time trying to come to an agreement with being a disciple of Christ and living in the world, which causes us to be Laodecian. I would agree with Rocky, it started in America or at least in western civilization. We saw how one could make alot of money preaching the word of God, and it became a dollar sign symbol, I don't think it started out on purpose, but it evolved to what it is today.

 

[Prentis]

Yes. I think the corruption is very deep.

There is a quote that I honestly think is brilliant:
"Christianity started out in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an enterprise." Sam Pascoe

The thing is, the Lord first will show us it's an entreprise, which is obvious. The culture is also rather obvious when he shows us it is acultural, apart from all culture. We could know those two, and still not understand it shouldn't be an institution. And once we see it shouldn't be an instition, it could still be a philosophy.

That has been my big thing to learn. I'm not a guy who naturally works with his hands, but with his head. I'm just talking carnal characteristics here. But because of that, I would so easily stop at it being a philosophy. Christianity being a philosophy means that being Christian is according to beliefs, and a morality.

Even though I didn't realize it, I walked like this a long time.

The kingdom is according to power, and according to life. It literally is to walk according to a different power. Jesus must be literally interacting with us in Spirit and leading us. That is christianity. It is about 5 times removed from what we have in North America, if you get what I mean.

 

[rockytopva]

We spend alot of time trying to come to an agreement with being a disciple of Christ and living in the world, which causes us to be Laodecian. I would agree with Rocky, it started in America or at least in western civilization. We saw how one could make alot of money preaching the word of God, and it became a dollar sign symbol, I don't think it started out on purpose, but it evolved to what it is today.

And there were some positive things that came of the age...

1. Nonconformity - The churches tend to be independent. Even DL Moody preached Christ and not the denomination.
2. Worship - There were some great worship that came out of the age from Fanny Crosby to Darlene Zschech.
3. Mega-Church - The Catholics learned long ago that a big church can be exciting!
4. Freedom - We are not bound to any state influences.

These are all great positives! God help teach us that we do not have to own this world to enjoy it and life in general!

 

[Jake]

Good quote!

There is an amazing difference with Christianity here compared to those believers in 3rd world countries, they don't see it as an institution, philosophy, or anything other than their life. Without material possessions, there reliance for all their needs must come from the Lord and they have learned a complete submission to the Lord, where perhaps in more civilized countries we tend to rely on society.

I just met a guy from Maylasia, he was a youth pastor, but fled because of persecution for his beliefs, he spent 2 years in the jungle, with only the clothes on his back, and eventually made it to Burma and spent 12 years there in a refugee camp. His view of God and what God did for Him, how God took care of Him is vastly different than, let's say, my view, because I have not experienced God in such a desparate situation. So, many of these 3rd world believers, are better off than many western believers because of their dependence on the Lord for all of their needs.

 

[Prentis]

I agree! When the Lord makes us weak so that we need him, it actually ends up being a blessing if we look to him.

They couldn't care for an institution, and a system, because it's sucking everything they have anyways, so they need the life. We, on the other hand, are on the receiving end of the system. The fact people are poor is what allows us to be rich, so we feel pretty comfortable trusting in a system.

A western man, with a western mentality, who becomes christian has much more he must lose. It is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom, we must shed our rich mentality, and receive the mind of Christ, if we are to overcome as westerners.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

I agree! When the Lord makes us weak so that we need him, it actually ends up being a blessing if we look to him.

They couldn't care for an institution, and a system, because it's sucking everything they have anyways, so they need the life. We, on the other hand, are on the receiving end of the system. The fact people are poor is what allows us to be rich, so we feel pretty comfortable trusting in a system.

A western man, with a western mentality, who becomes christian has much more he must lose. It is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom, we must shed our rich mentality, and receive the mind of Christ, if we are to overcome as westerners.

That is a good quote Prentis always reminds me of the rich ruler. in Luke 18:18-25 "A certain ruler asked him "good teacher what must I do to inherit eternal life ? Why do you call me good ?" Jesus answered. "No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments do not commit adultery, do not steal do not give false testimony honour your father and mother. All these I have kept since I was a boy he said." When Jesus heard this he said to him "you still lack one thing sell everything you have and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven then come follow me.When he heard this he became very sad because he was a man of great wealth indeed it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

 

[Prentis]

Yes. As rich people, in the flesh, we should be not jump to the conclusion that somehow we are also rich in heaven, and that it's all there already! That is the error of the Laodiceans.

If we are honest with ourselves, and look at the spiritual reality, we can see that this western way bereaves us of spiritual life, unless we become extremely wise and understand the ways of the Lord so that we overcome. It is a difficult road of learning for a rich man, whose eyes tell him he has all he needs. Unless we look with faith, we don't have a prayer!