Let's dispense of souls being converted and saved, but not lives, shall we?

[Ghada]

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is a Christian gospel that separates the soul and spirit from the body at conversion. There's also a New Age religion that teaches the same.

They preach that we are now inwardly pure and divine, while remaining outwardly corrupt as before. They preach that we are no longer judged, condemned, nor responsible for the life we now live, but are as the divine gods that live forever, no matter how we live today.

The Bible of course preaches the good news of having the spirit, soul, and body saved and delivered from sinning against God.

Any religion that does not save and justify the life, but only the 'spirit' within, is just religious hypocrisy. Anyone preaching a gospel where their inward religion is separated from how they live, is not living in a real world of adults, that know spiritualized dysfunction when they hear it. Whether Christian or New Age.

And they certainly aren't living in the kingdom of God, where we must repent of sinning first to enter therein.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The God and Deliverer of the children of Israel, saved and delivered their living bodies out of Egypt, not just their 'spirits'. The risen God of Israel now does the same for all that repent and believe His gospel.

He saves us from our sinning, which includes our spirit and our life.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There certainly can be outward righteousness with inward corruption, but there is no such thing as inward righteousness with outward corruption.

Righteous purity begins first within the platter, that the outward may also be just as clean and righteous. Not that the body may remain blamed, while the inner man is 'justified'.

 

[Ghada]

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

In the Bible, the soul of man is the life we live. Our soul is never apart from our life. Our life is our soul living on earth.

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,

Our life we live is the express image of the person we are. The soul of God was expressly seen and beheld in the life of Jesus Christ on earth. Separating our soul from our life, is separating a person and their character from how they live.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Saving our soul is saving our life. It's not possible to save a soul and not the life of the person, because our soul is the life we live.

And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Cutting off a soul from the people, is cutting off the life from among them. The soul alone is not cut off, while still living among the people.

There is no such thing as having a soul 'alone' apart from our life, even as there is no having faith alone without works.

Our soul is not some separate being living within the body of a man, that is not the life we live bodily, much less is not even related to it.

Saving the soul without the life lived is impossible Biblically. That is only an imaginary doctrine by those who also believe their saving faith has nothing to do with their works.

This is why God judges our soul by judging our works. He judges the life we live, which is the judgement of our soul.

 

[ScottA]

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is a Christian gospel that separates the soul and spirit from the body at conversion. There's also a New Age religion that teaches the same.

They preach that we are now inwardly pure and divine, while remaining outwardly corrupt as before. They preach that we are no longer judged, condemned, nor responsible for the life we now live, but are as the divine gods that live forever, no matter how we live today.

The Bible of course preaches the good news of having the spirit, soul, and body saved and delivered from sinning against God.

Any religion that does not save and justify the life, but only the 'spirit' within, is just religious hypocrisy. Anyone preaching a gospel where their inward religion is separated from how they live, is not living in a real world of adults, that know spiritualized dysfunction when they hear it. Whether Christian or New Age.

And they certainly aren't living in the kingdom of God, where we must repent of sinning first to enter therein.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The God and Deliverer of the children of Israel, saved and delivered their living bodies out of Egypt, not just their 'spirits'. The risen God of Israel now does the same for all that repent and believe His gospel.

He saves us from our sinning, which includes our spirit and our life.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There certainly can be outward righteousness with inward corruption, but there is no such thing as inward righteousness with outward corruption.

Righteous purity begins first within the platter, that the outward may also be just as clean and righteous. Not that the body may remain blamed, while the inner man is 'justified'.

Your gospel is as erroneous as theirs. Unfortunately.

But I do not wish to criticize only--not at all, but rather to clear the air.

You quote and refer to "the body" assumably being the body of flesh...while Paul actually clarifies, saying, "not that body."

As for the children of Israel, God seeing them out of Egypt was not their salvation-- that did not come until Jesus saved them out of Jerusalem. Those who came out of Egypt in their flesh bodies died before salvation even came. So no, that account does not indicate salvation of the body of flesh, but is only a foreshadowing of "not that body" but of the new spiritual body that is born of the spirit of God rather than the flesh body which is of the lineage of Adam and sin and is still condemned to death--even the death of Christ.

The [understandable] confusion is that Christ rose from the dead in His flesh body. Which was not proof of the salvation of the flesh unto eternal life, but a foreshadowing revealing of the reality of what actually occurs. Yes, since salvation came when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit that mankind could also be born [again] of the spirit of God and live, mankind can be saved "as if" in the flesh, because it can indeed occur while one is "alive and remains" in the body of flesh; and yet the flesh still dies, and even sins and wars with the new spirit body until it passes as Paul spoke of referring to his own struggles and failures to do the will of his new man.

But the point of confusion is this: that Jesus actually raised up and entered into heaven and the presence of the Father in the flesh--which is not true, as it is written, "flesh and blood cannot inherit (or enter) the kingdom of God." Which gets overlooked by not understanding the words of the angel who said Jesus would return in "like manner." Which does not refer to the like manner of flesh, but rather the like manner of the spirit of God which raised Him up. Which has not been fully nor correctly considered since that time. But really--did Christ take with Him his body of flesh, or did He actually say, "take, eat, this is My body" and give it over to the church--to be the church on earth, fulfilling what Paul claimed, saying, "for me, to live is Christ?"

You know the truth--and this is what I have told you.

These things are all written, and yet have not fully been understood.

 

[Ghada]

Your gospel is as erroneous as theirs. Unfortunately.

So you say

But I do not wish to criticize only--

Criticism is perfectly fine and I welcome it, so long as it's bibilical correction of any specific points I make.

You quote and refer to "the body" assumably being the body of flesh...while Paul actually clarifies, saying, "not that body."

The Bible is, yes. The life our soul lives in this world, is with our body. God in the Bible doesn't need to be so specific, because it's pretty much self-explanatory.

The Christian efforts to separate their the state of their souls from our deeds and life we live, is not Bible.

As for the children of Israel, God seeing them out of Egypt was not their salvation-- that did not come until Jesus saved them out of Jerusalem. Those who came out of Egypt in their flesh bodies died before salvation even came. So no, that account does not indicate salvation of the body of flesh, but is only a foreshadowing of "not that body" but of the new spiritual body that is born of the spirit of God rather than the flesh body which is of the lineage of Adam and sin and is still condemned to death--even the death of Christ.

The [understandable] confusion is that Christ rose from the dead in His flesh body. Which was not proof of the salvation of the flesh unto eternal life, but a foreshadowing revealing of the reality of what actually occurs. Yes, since salvation came when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit that mankind could also be born [again] of the spirit of God and live, mankind can be saved "as if" in the flesh, because it can indeed occur while one is "alive and remains" in the body of flesh; and yet the flesh still dies, and even sins and wars with the new spirit body until it passes as Paul spoke of referring to his own struggles and failures to do the will of his new man.

But the point of confusion is this: that Jesus actually raised up and entered into heaven and the presence of the Father in the flesh--which is not true, as it is written, "flesh and blood cannot inherit (or enter) the kingdom of God." Which gets overlooked by not understanding the words of the angel who said Jesus would return in "like manner." Which does not refer to the like manner of flesh, but rather the like manner of the spirit of God which raised Him up. Which has not been fully nor correctly considered since that time. But really--did Christ take with Him his body of flesh, or did He actually say, "take, eat, this is My body" and give it over to the church--to be the church on earth, fulfilling what Paul claimed, saying, "for me, to live is Christ?"

You know the truth--and this is what I have told you.

These things are all written, and yet have not fully been understood.

I don't see anything here, that pertains to the argument at hand. Admittedly it reads like code or something, so I can't be sure. So, if it does somehow teach the conversion and salvation of our soul and spirit can be separate from the life we live, then you'll need to clarify. Thanks.

 

[ScottA]

I don't see anything here, that pertains to the argument at hand. Admittedly it reads like code or something, so I can't be sure. So, if it does somehow teach the conversion and salvation of our soul and spirit can be separate from the life we live, then you'll need to clarify. Thanks.

The whole of scripture ("here a little, there a little"--not code) paints a picture, or as God put it: creation of man and revelations by "image" and parables, that shows that we are first condemned and born children of sin as the lineage of Adam in the flesh, needing to "take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— which Jesus declared was to be born again of the spirit of God; which is two completely different bodies, one that dies by God and one that lives by God.

Therefore, Paul said referring to the flesh, "not that body" would enter heaven, confirming again that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." But the simplest explanation comes from Christ who said before dying in the flesh, that one must be born again of the spirit of God: two births, one death, leaving only the spirit body born of the spirit of God alive...not the one that is seen, but the one that is unseen...which is also the "like manner" by which the angel said Jesus would return. Which one either puts all together, or errors in only considering partial truth...which is effectively a lie.

 

[Ghada]

that one must be born again of the spirit of God: two births, one death, leaving only the spirit body born of the spirit of God alive...not the one that is seen, but the one that is unseen...

If you are preaching the Christian sinners' version of being born again clean within and not seen, but living corruptly without and seen, then I say let's dispense with converting and saving the soul without the life.

The world knows that inner religion, spirit, faith, philosophy, ideology, etc... not having to do with how we live, is the very definition of hypocritical rubbish and new agism fantasy.

Good on the inside, bad on the outside, Divine on the inside, undivine on the outside. Righteous on the inside, unrighteous on the outside, etc...etc...etc...

 

[ScottA]

If you are preaching the Christian sinners' version of being born again clean within and not seen, but living corruptly without and seen, then I say let's dispense with converting and saving the soul without the life.

The world knows that inner religion, spirit, faith, philosophy, ideology, etc... not having to do with how we live, is the very definition of hypocritical rubbish and new agism fantasy.

Good on the inside, bad on the outside, Divine on the inside, undivine on the outside. Righteous on the inside, unrighteous on the outside, etc...etc...etc...

Your doctrine is against (anti) what Christ said:

John 6:63​

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.​

 

[Ghada]

Your doctrine is against (anti) what Christ said:

John 6:63​

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.​

That doctrine certainly is. And you only rebuke it, but don't disown it.

Do you preach a gospel of inward spiritual purity, while sinning with the flesh, or not? I certainly don't.

 

[ScottA]

That doctrine certainly is. And you only rebuke it, but don't disown it.

Do you preach a gospel of inward spiritual purity, while sinning with the flesh, or not? I certainly don't.

Again you show your misunderstanding of the actual circumstances. But don't misunderstand me saying so. Your saying so is enough that I don't need to say anything unless I care to share with you the actual truth, which I do.

Now, it is clear just how you view things, that the flesh is to be glorified equally as the spirit...but that is not the truth.

On the contrary, the flesh is still condemned to die and does and is destroyed. This is the truth of what is written...and I have stated it in one sentence.

Even so, yes, the flesh can be under subordination of the spirit, just as Satan and darkness can be under subordination...and yet are allowed a short time even to the end--not to win, but to finish. And this is shown to be true in Christ who carried the signs of the sins of the world after the cross, even until He ascended. And what has He done regarding His sin-marked body--has it become pure at His ascension? No--that is not what is written. But rather, He gave His body [before the cross and salvation], to the church...to what? To follow, meaning, to carry sin until the end and even the signs after being given new life by the spirit of God, until ascension.

Does that mean that any saved person actually and willfully continues to sin? Of course not--nor does anyone preach of teach such a thing. And anyone who has read of the struggle from Paul, should understand that. But as I said-- you misunderstand. Therefore, I will answer your question: No, I do not "preach a gospel of inward spiritual purity, while sinning with the flesh" as if sin were okay. Heaven forbid! Nor did Paul, and we who do understand, do not "call evil good, and good evil", but rather "endure to the end." For which "we who are alive and remain" in the flesh such as it is, are nonetheless washed clean, but by the power and grace of God do endure knowing that there is "now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit"-- which we do in spite of the darkness that remains and the flesh which has yet to be destroyed but will be.

 

[Behold]

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

To understand your verse, you have to understand a few simple facts about the "Trinity", as 3 in ONE.

This....... Father, Word (Son) , Holy Spirit, = 3 in ONE....

God said, "let US.... make man in OUR... image"..

That is God and the pre-incarnate Jesus, who was "The Word was God"..John 1......in that verse... who was "God manifested in the Flesh, as virgin born "Emmanuel /Immanuel".. = God with us.

So, Man, like the TRINITY, is a 3 part situation..

Body

Soul

Spirit.


Reader, you are a Spirit, you have a soul, and you live in a body.

3 in ONE, ... "Tri-Part.........Just like God. is 3<>1

The SOUL... is the mind, will, and emotions..

So, our Spirit, is born again. Our Body is going to the grave or to the cremation pit, and our SOUL< which is our mind, needs to be renewed down here. But even if its not, it will made perfect when you die, or when you are Raptured. And at that time you'll get a new Body that is created for the Born Again Spirit.