Limited atonement !

[amigo de christo]

I think we agree the Atonement is Limited the way Jesus thinks it's Limited. He was asked why he speaks in Parables. He said it was given to the Disciples to Understand, but it wasn't given to Others to Understand; so he spoke in Parables because the Others were not permitted to Understand. Why? Because he said it was given to Peter by God to know earler. God removed the Tree of Life from the Garden lest they live forever. The Gospel is a Tree of Life; Jesus removed it by speaking in Parables. As Omniscient God, he knew they would not Believe, so they weren't Atoned for as non Believers...

We're Permitted to Preach to All, but Jesus Did not commit himself to them because he knew what was in the Others. I think we agree that 'at least that day', he didn't want them to Understand the Gospel...

Right?

the more we read that bible the more we see THE WHY it was not given them .
IN part you were right . THEY were NOT in the KINGDOM , they had hard hearts
JESUS KNEW . read it . FOR they have hardned their hearts .
THE SHEEP KNew , though , didnt they . Even a few gentiles knew . EVEN though JESUS
had not yet come to THEM but to the JEWS FIRST .
IN the end the one responsible for their damnation IS MAN
the only one a person has to thank if they end up in the lake of fire is their own selves .
AND THE ONLY ONE a person can thank IN THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM , IS JESUS THE CHRIST
cause HE was the ONLY WAY THEY GOT THERE . I say TO HE WE OWE ALL . as i am sure you do agree on that my friend .
Much time has been wasted on denominatal doctrines of men .
WHEN we should have simply focused on GRACE , focused on learning JESUS for ourselves in the bible
sound doctrine and preaching that name to all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Go ye into all nations , into all the world
teaching them about predistination . NO , that dont sound right .
Teaching them about universalsim , THAT DARN SURE DONT SOUND RIGHT .
Teaching them the interfaith of anti christ , THAT DARN SURE DONT SOUND RIGHT .
Teaching them it dont matter what religon they believe so long as they fed the poor and loved . NO that SOUNDS DEAD WRONG .
what was it JESUS commanded .
OH YEAH , TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST , baptizing them in the NAME of the FATHER SON HOLY GHOST
and teaching them to OBSERVE , TO DO , Not most , not some , BUT ALL THINGS i have commanded thee .
HE who beleives and is baptized shall be saved . HE who believes not SHALL be DAMNED .
THAT IS WHAT JESUS TAUGHT .
so i say we teach that too .

 

[Hey You!]

the more we read that bible the more we see THE WHY it was not given them .
IN part you were right . THEY were NOT in the KINGDOM , they had hard hearts
JESUS KNEW . read it . FOR they have hardned their hearts .
THE SHEEP KNew , though , didnt they . Even a few gentiles knew . EVEN though JESUS
had not yet come to THEM but to the JEWS FIRST .
IN the end the one responsible for their damnation IS MAN
the only one a person has to thank if they end up in the lake of fire is their own selves .
AND THE ONLY ONE a person can thank IN THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM , IS JESUS THE CHRIST
cause HE was the ONLY WAY THEY GOT THERE . I say TO HE WE OWE ALL . as i am sure you do agree on that my friend .
Much time has been wasted on denominatal doctrines of men .
WHEN we should have simply focused on GRACE , focused on learning JESUS for ourselves in the bible
sound doctrine and preaching that name to all .

Do you think a Calvinist can hold to Limited Atonement, since you can hold to it? So far, you and I agree with Jesus on why the Atonement is Limited...

 

[amigo de christo]

I dont seem to remember CHRIST or any of the apostels preaching a john lenon song , well a beetles song
that all YA NEED IS LOVE .
THEY , as did JOHN said this , TO BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST and to love one another .
SEEMS TODAYS LOVEY DO BEETLES SONG OMITS THE BELIEVE IN JESUS part .
WHICH , MY GOODNESS means it but death twice told they do preach .

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you think a Calvinist can hold to Limited Atonement, since you can hold to it? So far, you and I agree with Jesus on why the Atonement is Limited...

friend i am not calvnist , nor Jw , nor mormon , nor baptist , nor methodist , NOR RCC
This lamb is christain .
NOW if one speaks truth then AMEN i hear that . but when they bring the blending of truth with lies , WELL
we DONT hear that mix . as i am sure you would agree . Right .
One thing , of many , which i am truly greatful to GOD for is
THE FACT HE PUT ME INTO JUST the BIBLE to read and to love reading it for hours daily , every day
for almost nineteen years now . AND believe me, I GIVE HIM THE CREDIT AND GLORY for having done that .
HE puts the love FOR HIM , FOR HIS WORDS upon the heart of the sheep .
ITS men we have to watch out for . NOT that all are false , BUT FRIEND MANY MANY MANY ARE .
and i dont mean just unwise and maybe should wait to teach . I MEAN Flat out false ones guiding this people .
ITS NOT an accusation , nor am i condeming them . BUT EXPOSING THEM and their doctrines , YOU BET I WILL .
CAUSE my love is for this people and i desire GOOD for the peoples .
AND i bet you know NO LIE IS GOOD for this people .

 

[Hey You!]

friend i am not calvnist , nor Jw , nor mormon , nor baptist , nor methodist , NOR RCC
This lamb is christain .
NOW if one speaks truth then AMEN i hear that . but when they bring the blending of truth with lies , WELL
we DONT hear that mix . as i am sure you would agree . Right .
One thing , of many , which i am truly greatful to GOD for is
THE FACT HE PUT ME INTO JUST the BIBLE to read and to love reading it for hours daily , every day
for almost nineteen years now . AND believe me, I GIVE HIM THE CREDIT AND GLORY for having done that .
HE puts the love FOR HIM , FOR HIS WORDS upon the heart of the sheep .
ITS men we have to watch out for . NOT that all are false , BUT FRIEND MANY MANY MANY ARE .
and i dont mean just unwise and maybe should wait to teach . I MEAN Flat out false ones guiding this people .
ITS NOT an accusation , nor am i condeming them . BUT EXPOSING THEM and their doctrines , YOU BET I WILL .
CAUSE my love is for this people and i desire GOOD for the peoples .
AND i bet you know NO LIE IS GOOD for this people .

Thanks. For now, I'll assume that you accept Calvinists are Christians, and their view of Limited Atonement matches your view of Limited Atonement. Unless you clearly say otherwise...

 

[brightfame52]

. The notion that the death of Christ is conditionally sufficient for all mankind, that is if all mankind were to believe in it, leads the sinner at once to the performance of some duty which he imagines will give efficacy to the death of Christ and render it available to him. By this means he is lead to draw comfort from his duties instead of the finished salvation of Christ.

A Defense of Particular Redemption - William Rushton

A DEFENCE OF PARTICULAR REDEMPTION WHEREIN THE DOCTRINE OF THE LATE MR. FULLER RELATIVE TO THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST, IS TRIED BY THE WORD OF GOD. BY WILLIAM RUSHTON, LIV

www.pristinegrace.org

 

[Rockerduck]

Thanks. For now, I'll assume that you accept Calvinists are Christians, and their view of Limited Atonement matches your view of Limited Atonement. Unless you clearly say otherwise...

I read this quote - All Christians are not Calvinists, but all Calvinists are Christian.

 

[amigo de christo]

Thanks. For now, I'll assume that you accept Calvinists are Christians, and their view of Limited Atonement matches your view of Limited Atonement. Unless you clearly say otherwise...

There is clear and present dangers in such places my friend .
Not all who cliam Christ are of CHRIST . And many such places have fallen big time .
I would say we should simply learn the bible for ourselves .
It dont seem to matter what denomination of men it is , Leaven has swollen places .
My duty is not to preach calvin , or any other doctrine of men .
ITS JESUS and HIS words and the words of the apostels , all sound biblical doctrine , we must learn
and should have learned .
In fact paul would have rebuked the entire lott o these denominations that give their names unto men .
IS one of calvin and another of methodist , another of ........
We need to flee doctrines and names of men and return TO JUST the bible for our learning .
IF people had done this , THEY had been not swayed by men who deceive .
And people love to accuse those who warn of such places as being judgmental .
DO you BELIEVE one should sit in the RCC , or in the mormon church ,
I DIDNT think so . TO warn men to come out of such doctrines of men and learn the bible JUST for themselves
IS DIRE necessary . Too many learned their doctrine THROUGH the precepts of men .
That is why THEY SEE as they see and do as they do . But i am telling us
WE must return to JUST bible reading . This may seem hard to believe
BUT calvin himself was OFF on things . Far better for us to return to THE scrips to learn for ourselves .
Men can do all to make things MAKE sense but it still dont make it TRUE .
People learning it through their concepts can be and are led astray .
WE must read the bible for our own selves and keep reading it daily .

 

[brightfame52]

@amigo de christo

again , here we go again

Please dont evade, now according to Rom 5:10 how were they reconciled, and what condition were they in when reconciled ?

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo



Please dont evade, now according to Rom 5:10 how were they reconciled, and what condition were they in when reconciled ?

@amigo de christo



Please dont evade, now according to Rom 5:10 how were they reconciled, and what condition were they in when reconciled ?

Reconciled TO GOD BY CHRIST when we were enemies .
IT is just as i say . JESUS didnt come to save the righteous or to reconcile them to GOD .
BUT THEN NONE IS RIGHTEOUS . HE came to seek and to save that which was lost .
TO bring sinners TO REPENTANCE , TO FAITH IN GOD .
THERE IS NO way one who rejects HIM , IS RECONCILED TO GOD .
Cause he is the ONLY ONE WHO can RECONCILE one to GOD .
YOU wont read the whole bible , YOu are trying to twist a verse to make it mean something it dont mean .
AS IF those who fail to BELEIVE ON CHRIST are reconciled to GOD . IT WONT HAPPEN .
AND to imply so is deadly dangerous . ITS why we preach the gospel OF RECONCILATION .
HOW ONE CAN be reconciled to GOD . BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS .
AND we were all once the enemies of GOD . But the FATHER has made the way to be reconciled to HIM
SO I suggest you preach THAT NAME to folks , cause budda aint reconciling squat
And all other religoins are death leading only to the second death .
IF you want folks reconciled to GOD , YA BETTER say , BELIEVE YE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
Rather than trying to imply SOMETHING else . I know how you folks work my friend .
YOU always try and pin a person down to ONE scrip and make it seem to mean WHAT YOU IMPLY IT MEANS .
NO FAITH IN JESUS , NO RECONCILIATION and ONLY the second death awaits them all .
YOU had better start preaching JESUS , and learn how to rightly divide . Start reading the bible FOR YOU
and not through the lens of men and their own concepts .

 

[Rightglory]

Do you think a Calvinist can hold to Limited Atonement, since you can hold to it? So far, you and I agree with Jesus on why the Atonement is Limited...

I have a question for either of you. In my discourse with Brightfame52 he never could answer just how Christ's atonement could be limited. This discussion has been long but no one seems to understand how it could be limited. They use the term but never define it.

 

[amigo de christo]

I read this quote - All Christians are not Calvinists, but all Calvinists are Christian.

what a whopper that one is .
Heck not even all CHRISTAINS are CHRISTAINS .
Whats next all christains are not catholics but all catholics are christian . What a whopper that had been too .
THEM places are dangerous . methodists , jw , mormon , yes even calivinsits , and many others .
WHO is paul , who is appolos .
I seem to notice HE took the torch away from men .
Yet even today i see men try and cliam they are pauline or etc .
And beleive me when i investigaged even that pauline stuff
I SEEN things taught that had made PAUL begin a rebuking spree . THINGS he never meant .
PEOPLE we gots to get back into the bible for ourselves .
And before anyone tries to one liner that says OH that is how all them denominations got started .
WRONG . its not .
For had men learned the scrips well for themselves , THEY HAD NEVER sat under such men
WHO never really knew the rightly divided words themselves .
IT WAS DUE TO a serious lack of knowledge that many sat and continued to sit under such men .
YOU DONT SEE me running around trying to start a new denomination
Exactly . WE NEED to get back into the bible again for ourselves and read it FOR ourselves and not
through the lens of men .

 

[Ritajanice]

YOU wont read the whole bible

I don’t need to read any bible to know that my spirit is Born Again, but, God has led me through his word to bring me to understand in my spirit ,what it means to be Born Again, a child of God...

Why else would I need to read scripture, when my heart knows that it’s being conformed into Jesus image, that daily I am in Christ and he in me?

Why do I need to read my Bible?

My life is in Gods hands, I’m his child, to use as and when it suits him....a child of God is very much Alive in Christ....His Spirit indwells their spirit @amigo de christo .

 

[Ritajanice]

Heck not even all CHRISTAINS are CHRISTAINS

There are Christians who follow a Bible...then there are Born Again who follow the Spirit....they hear and know their saviours voice...of course I have read my Bible to understand also, that we are led by the Living Spirit Of God....as we are spirit children.

The Bible confirms what the Spirit testifies to my heart.God has always spoken to me Spirit to spirit, the way that he knows I will understand..he speaks to you differently..through the Bible.

Not everyone has to read a Bible like you do my friend...my heart yearns to know more of the HEART of God....for he indwells my spirit and I’m being conformed into Jesus image and bearing the Living Spirit fruit....I’m being prepared for heaven....

Bible knowledge doesn’t prepare me for heaven my friend...only the Living Spirit can prepare me for heaven....by working in my heart, that has been birthed by the Living Spirit Of God...

 

[Hey You!]

I have a question for either of you. In my discourse with Brightfame52 he never could answer just how Christ's atonement could be limited. This discussion has been long but no one seems to understand how it could be limited. They use the term but never define it.

@brightfame52 is a Hyper Calvinist. He views Atonement as only belonging to the Unconditional Elect of God; apart from them Believing the Truth of the Gospel Promise. Believing the Gospel is not a quotient in God's Purpose of Election. Election is Salvation. Hyper Calvinists do not deny that Faith is a part of Salvation, but they believe everything depends on Election...

 

[Hey You!]

what a whopper that one is .
Heck not even all CHRISTAINS are CHRISTAINS .

The quote involves the Presupposition that when it speaks of Christians, it's referring to Born Again Christians...

Will you agree if the Quote is understood to mean, 'Some Born Again Christians aren't Calvinists, but some Born Again Calvinists are Christians.'?

 

[brightfame52]

@amigo de christo

Reconciled TO GOD BY CHRIST when we were enemies .

Okay, is being an enemy a unbeliever ?

And how were they reconciled when an enemy according to Rom 5:10 ?

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo



Okay, is being an enemy a unbeliever ?

And how were they reconciled when an enemy according to Rom 5:10 ?

@amigo de christo



Okay, is being an enemy a unbeliever ?

And how were they reconciled when an enemy according to Rom 5:10 ?

We were drawn to Christ .
So you can keep on trying to plant wrong ideas in order to justify something you want to deep down believe
happens to all IN THE END
or you get can busy preaching the ONLY name and reminding all of the dire necessity to BELIEVE ON that NAME
or perish they will .
I know what this end time generation wants to beleive . ITS A LIE , and its because they love sins
and want to feel like , oh well its all gonna be okay in the end
anyway . My advice , PREACH JESUS THE CHRIST and all things HE taught . Not some fable
that sounds good to
itchy ears who never truly wanted to FOLLOW CHRIST . they do not want to count the cost .
Because its gonna cost them something they do not want to lose . Just a friendly reminder .
I know why folks wanna beleive a fable . its because a fable givth hope
without a cost . Many love sin . and by many i mean even many within christendome .
THey might not like all sins , BUT THEY DARN SURE LOVETH THEIRS . we better watch out my friend .
fables gone wild is occuring .

 

[Ritajanice]

We were drawn to Christ .

Amen!..Brother, Praise God for Jesus!!