Living in Heaven or on Earth. Does the Bible give us that option?

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RR144

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All of the wonderful Jehovah’s Witnesses that have come to your door express NO desire for a heavenly hope. Their desire is to be on Paradise Earth forever. And what could be wrong with good food, a nice house, domesticated wild animals and beautiful scenery?

The problem is the difficulty in making a scriptural case for an earthly hope. Yes the Bible clearly teaches about the earthly kingdom, but for the Christian, the Bible only speaks of a heavenly hope as in the scriptures that follow:

“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;” - Philippians 3:20 (NASV)​
“the hope that is being reserved for YOU in the heavens. - Colossians 1:5 (NWT)​
“Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess-Jesus.” - Hebrews 3:1 (NWT)​
“Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.” - Matthew 5:12 (NWT)​
“22 Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake. 23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven…” - Luke 6:22-23 (NKJV)​
“For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. 2 For in this dwelling house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven,” - 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 (NWT)​

“This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, 20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” - Hebrews 6:19-20 (NASV)​
“So also is the resurrection of the dead… It is sown a natural body [death]; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Jesus] was made a quickening spirit.” - 1 Corinthians 15:42-45 (KJV)​
“Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.” - 1 Corinthians 15:49 (NASV)​
“In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.” - John 14:2-3 (NWT)​
“Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.” - 1 John 3:2 (NKJV)​
“I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward <Strong’s 507> call of God in Christ Jesus.” - Philippians 3:14 (NKJV)​

[Upward Call is to HEAVEN. Compare Colossians 3:1 (NKJV) If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above <507>, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.” Also compare: John 8:23 (NKJV) “And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above <507>. You are of this world; I am not of this world.”

“Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.” - Daniel 12:3 (NASV)​

None of these scriptures indicate any other hope for the Christian than the heavenly hope. As a matter of fact, Eph 4:4 says, “One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called” (Eph 4:4 NWT). So for the Christian there is only one hope; the heavenly hope. Throughout the book of Acts, whenever anyone is baptized, nobody is ever given the option of whether they want to choose an earthly or a heavenly reward.

Even the Great Crowd are said to be in Heaven in Rev 19:1 which says, “After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven.” (NWT) The Greek words translated great crowd is exactly the same as in Rev 7:9.
 

Zachariah

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All of the wonderful Jehovah’s Witnesses that have come to your door express NO desire for a heavenly hope. Their desire is to be on Paradise Earth forever. And what could be wrong with good food, a nice house, domesticated wild animals and beautiful scenery?

The problem is the difficulty in making a scriptural case for an earthly hope. Yes the Bible clearly teaches about the earthly kingdom, but for the Christian, the Bible only speaks of a heavenly hope as in the scriptures that follow:

“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;” - Philippians 3:20 (NASV)​
“the hope that is being reserved for YOU in the heavens. - Colossians 1:5 (NWT)​
“Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess-Jesus.” - Hebrews 3:1 (NWT)​
“Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.” - Matthew 5:12 (NWT)​
“22 Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake. 23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven…” - Luke 6:22-23 (NKJV)​
“For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. 2 For in this dwelling house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven,” - 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 (NWT)​

“This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, 20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” - Hebrews 6:19-20 (NASV)​
“So also is the resurrection of the dead… It is sown a natural body [death]; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Jesus] was made a quickening spirit.” - 1 Corinthians 15:42-45 (KJV)​
“Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.” - 1 Corinthians 15:49 (NASV)​
“In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.” - John 14:2-3 (NWT)​
“Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.” - 1 John 3:2 (NKJV)​
“I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward <Strong’s 507> call of God in Christ Jesus.” - Philippians 3:14 (NKJV)​

[Upward Call is to HEAVEN. Compare Colossians 3:1 (NKJV) If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above <507>, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.” Also compare: John 8:23 (NKJV) “And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above <507>. You are of this world; I am not of this world.”

“Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.” - Daniel 12:3 (NASV)​

None of these scriptures indicate any other hope for the Christian than the heavenly hope. As a matter of fact, Eph 4:4 says, “One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called” (Eph 4:4 NWT). So for the Christian there is only one hope; the heavenly hope. Throughout the book of Acts, whenever anyone is baptized, nobody is ever given the option of whether they want to choose an earthly or a heavenly reward.

Even the Great Crowd are said to be in Heaven in Rev 19:1 which says, “After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven.” (NWT) The Greek words translated great crowd is exactly the same as in Rev 7:9.
The kingdome of heaven is with the living on earth. It is not seperate.
 

Jack

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Revelation 21
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 

Zachariah

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and your scriptural support is ... where?
I dont generally use scripture to support my understandings as people seem to interpret it however they like anyway. I see the universe and God as all inter woven and connected. Nothing lacks the existence of the other. My personal experience and understanding of heaven is one that runs in conjunction with the physicle domain. You may go ahead and read scripture from this perspective if you like or you can stay put within your own belief, that's ultimately up to you. I just posted based off my understanding. I do not lack in experience with the bible, I have done much study. I have also done alot of study outside of the bible. Different perspectives sometimes help me fill in the missing pieces. Apart from my study I have reflected these spiritual teaching apon myself to a point where it has become understanding and Truth. To "believe" is different than to "know". Many people believe things to be different and find themselves arguing amongst themselves. When we know something, there is no need to get defensive or even to prove what we know. Truth is in no way reliant on belief. Truth does not try to prove itself to be True, it has no need.
 
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Patrick1966

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All of the wonderful Jehovah’s Witnesses that have come to your door express NO desire for a heavenly hope. Their desire is to be on Paradise Earth forever. And what could be wrong with good food, a nice house, domesticated wild animals and beautiful scenery?

The problem is the difficulty in making a scriptural case for an earthly hope. Yes the Bible clearly teaches about the earthly kingdom, but for the Christian, the Bible only speaks of a heavenly hope as in the scriptures that follow:

“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;” - Philippians 3:20 (NASV)​
“the hope that is being reserved for YOU in the heavens. - Colossians 1:5 (NWT)​
“Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we confess-Jesus.” - Hebrews 3:1 (NWT)​
“Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.” - Matthew 5:12 (NWT)​
“22 Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake. 23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven…” - Luke 6:22-23 (NKJV)​
“For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. 2 For in this dwelling house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven,” - 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 (NWT)​

“This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, 20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” - Hebrews 6:19-20 (NASV)​
“So also is the resurrection of the dead… It is sown a natural body [death]; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Jesus] was made a quickening spirit.” - 1 Corinthians 15:42-45 (KJV)​
“Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.” - 1 Corinthians 15:49 (NASV)​
“In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.” - John 14:2-3 (NWT)​
“Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.” - 1 John 3:2 (NKJV)​
“I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward <Strong’s 507> call of God in Christ Jesus.” - Philippians 3:14 (NKJV)​

[Upward Call is to HEAVEN. Compare Colossians 3:1 (NKJV) If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above <507>, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.” Also compare: John 8:23 (NKJV) “And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above <507>. You are of this world; I am not of this world.”

“Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.” - Daniel 12:3 (NASV)​

None of these scriptures indicate any other hope for the Christian than the heavenly hope. As a matter of fact, Eph 4:4 says, “One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called” (Eph 4:4 NWT). So for the Christian there is only one hope; the heavenly hope. Throughout the book of Acts, whenever anyone is baptized, nobody is ever given the option of whether they want to choose an earthly or a heavenly reward.

Even the Great Crowd are said to be in Heaven in Rev 19:1 which says, “After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven.” (NWT) The Greek words translated great crowd is exactly the same as in Rev 7:9.

Is it possible that Paul (and others) were referring to "Heaven" as our temporary abode while awaiting Christ's return?

Or perhaps they were trying to keep it simple for the masses rather than confuse them with the discussion of "Heaven" and God's future kingdom on the new earth?

Guys like us like to get into the details of things whereas most people aren't interested. We have a gazillion questions that won't be answered until we are with God.
 

RR144

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I dont generally use scripture to support my understandings as people seem to interpret it however they like anyway. I see the universe and God as all inter woven and connected. Nothing lacks the existence of the other. My personal experience and understanding of heaven is one that runs in conjunction with the physicle domain. You may go ahead and read scripture from this perspective if you like or you can stay put within your own belief, that's ultimately up to you. I just posted based off my understanding. I do not lack in experience with the bible, I have done much study. I have also done alot of study outside of the bible. Different perspectives sometimes help me fill in the missing pieces. Apart from my study I have reflected these spiritual teaching apon myself to a point where it has become understanding and Truth. To "believe" is different than to "know". Many people believe things to be different and find themselves arguing amongst themselves. When we know something, there is no need to get defensive or even to prove what we know. Truth is in no way reliant on belief. Truth does not try to prove itself to be True, it has no need.
uhhh ... okay :rolleyes:
 

RR144

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Is it possible that Paul (and others) were referring to "Heaven" as our temporary abode while awaiting Christ's return?
Not for the Church class, they have been called for purpose (Phil 3:13, 14; Heb 3:1) they gave up their earthly lives, (1 Cor. 15:49-51) trading mortality for immortality. (1 Cor. 15:53, 54) They will be the invisible rulers of the earth for 1,000 years, (Rev. 20:6) while the Nation of Israel will be its visible rulers on earth. (Gen. 26:4)
 

Patrick1966

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Not for the Church class, they have been called for purpose (Phil 3:13, 14; Heb 3:1) they gave up their earthly lives, (1 Cor. 15:49-51) trading mortality for immortality. (1 Cor. 15:53, 54) They will be the invisible rulers of the earth for 1,000 years, (Rev. 20:6) while the Nation of Israel will be its visible rulers on earth. (Gen. 26:4)

They'll be invisible?
 

Zachariah

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Aren't they resurrected into perfect bodies?

Physicle resserection does not exist and is not possible. The stories of resserection relate to identity and the human psyche. As do all "mericles". Invisible meaning unseen in nature. Truth is of unseen nature and when we come into alignment with it, we to become unseen in nature.
 

Earburner

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Physicle resserection does not exist and is not possible. The stories of resserection relate to identity and the human psyche. As do all "mericles". Invisible meaning unseen in nature. Truth is of unseen nature and when we come into alignment with it, we to become unseen in nature.
So then, you are saying that Jesus, who is the firstborn from the dead, the firstborn of many brethren, did not rise from the grave into New life, having an Immortal body? And then later physically ascend into Heaven?
Jesus is both physical and spiritual, having the ability to appear in either form at will.

His entrance into the upper room, where His disciples were hiding from the Jews, had the doors shut. Jesus suddenly appeared to them, and not by the entrance of a doorway.
KJV John 20
[19] Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

For forty days, Jesus appeared to them numerous times, and then PHYSICALLY ascended from the earth into Heaven, with them in His presence, watching Him do so.
KJV Acts 1:1-11
 

Zachariah

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So then, you are saying that Jesus, who is the firstborn from the dead, the firstborn of many brethren, did not rise from the grave into New life, having an Immortal body? And then later physically ascend into Heaven?
Jesus is both physical and spiritual, having the ability to appear in either form at will.

His entrance into the upper room, where His disciples were hiding from the Jews, had the doors shut. Jesus suddenly appeared to them, and not by the entrance of a doorway.
KJV John 20
[19] Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

For forty days, Jesus appeared to them numerous times, and then PHYSICALLY ascended from the earth into Heaven, with them in His presence, watching Him do so.
KJV Acts 1:1-11

Isn't it clear what i said?
 

Taken

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Living in Heaven or on Earth. Does the Bible give us that option?​

OP^

A Terrestrial MAN is a body of Dust CREATED out of the elements of the EARTH. The body’s LIFE is it’s BLOOD. The body belongs to the man. (The man can feed his body, believe as he chooses, do as he chooses, even kill his body.)

A Terrestrial PERSON is a body of Dust that is MADE with an imparted soul. The soul’s LIFE is Gods Breath. The soul belongs to God.

The identity (Name) of the Body and Soul is the same.

A Terrestrial man’s body is naturally born of water, WITH its own NATURAL spirit. The Natural spirit of a man IS his NATURAL TRUTH in his heart.

A Terrestrial Man’s natural body has a BRAIN. The natural BRAIN functions as a PROCESSOR of Thoughts (AKA the MIND) of Knowledge it receives continuously as the BODY is born, grows, stagnates or matures.

A MIND can receive knowledge, process the knowledge quickly or slowly. It can remember, forget, stagnate, continue gathering knowledge, retard and move backward of receiving, processing and remembering knowledge.

The CREATION and MAKING of a Terrestrial man, BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT…God called VERY GOOD…

The Terrestrial man HAVING authority over his own BODY, to Freely Choose to think, act, do as he elects/chooses, sets the stage for that mans LIFESTYLE.

God Himself, according to His ORDER and WAY, has provided Mankind with Gods Knowledge, spoken, written and published.

Gods revealed Knowledge IS: The LIFE of ALL body’s of Terrestrial men SHALL and MUST DIE.

Gods revealed Knowledge IS: By, Through, Of Gods Power, He has OFFERED every Terrestrial man an ORDER and WAY….
FOR:
1)
A Terrestrials mans BODY, to Be CHANGED, MADE ALIVE Spiritually, Eternally WITHOUT BLOOD and WITH God.
2)
A Terrestrial mans SOUL, to Be RESTORED, from having become NOT good, to again becoming VERY GOOD, MADE ALIVE Spiritually, Eternally, WITH God.
3)
A Terrestrial mans NATURAL SPIRIT, to BE BORN AGAIN of Gods SEED, receive Gods TRUTH, MADE ALIVE Spiritually, Eternally, WITH God.

The body, the soul, the spirit (natural or born again, ALL have the Same IDENTITY (Name) of that one manKIND of being.
(And not a big secret individual men have multiple Names, multiple Titles and multiple Descriptions…..AS Does God.)

No man IS FORCED to Accept Gods OFFERING. It is every Terrestrial mans FREEWILL election to Accept Gods OFFERING or not.

Gods ORDER and WAY to Receive His Offering IS:
BODY must die First.
SOUL is thereafter Restored.
SPIRIT is thereafter Born Again.

MANIFESTATION of the changed BODY, restored SOUL, born again SPIRIT IS NOT:
Seen, Heard, Felt, Tasted, Smelled by Terrestrial men.

This Present Earth IS the Estate of Terrestrial men. Mens Body’s shall always REMAIN on Earth.

* Departed (out of dead body’s) Restored souls shall temporarily reside in Heaven.
* Departed (out of dead body’s) unRestored souls shall reside in Hell.
* Departed (out of dead body’s) Born Again spirits shall temporarily reside in Heaven.
* Non quickened (ie not born again) Natural spirits shall Die with the natural body.

WHEN Gods Works regarding (the Bodily DEATH) of ALL Terrestrial men have come to pass….THEN SHALL

God “RESTORE”, MAKE ANEW, the Heavens and the Earth. CALLED VICTORY.

The FIRMAMENT that presently DIVIDES the Heavens and the Earth SHALL BE OPENED.
As God IS Good and Holy, So also SHALL BE the Heavens, the Earth, the Occupants.

A mans HOPE Stands in Accepting Gods OFFERING and Becoming Forgiven, Changed, Restored, Quickened and Living Forever ON a New Earth that has No Barrier between the Heavens and Earth, and the Glory of SEEING God as He is, and Forever Being with God, as He is.

The Earth, The Heavens are Without End…
However By, Through, Of the knowledge and Testimony of Our Good and Faithful Lord God Almighty, His Estate, His Throne (Heaven), His Presence SHALL BE Openly a Similitude and SEEN by Every forgiven AND changed, restored, quickened Man.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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