The Jerusalem which is above is the heavenly city of promise which God has prepared for His saints

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Scott Downey

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No one in the OT under the OC, came to be with the Father in heaven without Christ.
Heaven is layered, there are levels, Heaven is above, earth is below.
The Heaven where God dwells, no one comes to the Father without Christ, no Elijah did not ascend into heaven to live with the Father before Christ came. That lots of people also disagree with cause if you read the OT is says some things that the unlearned would say that Elijah ascended into heaven without Christ. But to be consistent with the NC words of Christ, no one should believe Elijah or Enoch did that.

If we could become righteous enough to live with God in heaven, then Christ died in vain.
And none are righteous. A whole lot of New Testament teaching has to be ignored and twisted to say otherwise.
The LAW under the Old Covenant made nothing perfect

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

When Christ came we got a change in the LAW, comparing the OC and the NC
Hebrews 7

The King of Righteousness​

1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the [a]spoils. 5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; 6 but he whose genealogy is not derived from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 Now beyond all contradiction the lesser is blessed by the better. 8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives. 9 Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak, 10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

Need for a New Priesthood​

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has [b]officiated at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning [c]priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17 For [d]He testifies:

“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,

19 for the law made nothing [e]perfect;


on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
 

Scott Downey

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Matthew 5:48
Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
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Hebrews 7

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has [b]officiated at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning [c]priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.

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And v8 God says He has no pleasure in animal sacrifices at the alter, so why in a so called 1000 year earthly reign, would God desire animal sacrifices again? He wont, God does not go backwards.
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Hebrews 10:1
For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
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8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, [b]O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified​

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being [d]sanctified.

15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is [e]remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Yes, and that will be where the Lord`s own throne will be, and we will rule with Him there. (Ps. 2: 6 Rev. 3: 21)
Not "will be". It is where His throne IS.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
 

Spiritual Israelite

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"Melted" things (Luo):

2 Peter 3:10b ".. shall luo (loose) with kausoo (fire, fervent heat), the ge (earth) also and the ergon that are therein shall be katakaio (wholly consumed).

Luo: To loose. Used in:

Luo:
Matthew 5:19 (loose one of the commandments); 16:19 & 18:18 (loosed on earth, loosed in heaven); 21:2 (tied up ass and colt, loosed);

Luo:
Mark 1:7 (John the Baptist saying he is not worthy to loose the shoes of Christ); 1:7 (tongue loosed); 11:2 & 4-5 (colt loosed that was bound).

Luo: Luke 13:15 (Loosing of an ox on the sabbath day & Jesus loosing of a woman who was bound with infirmity on the sabbath day).

Luo: Revelation 5:2 (seals loosed); 9:14 (angels loosed); 20:7 (Satan loosed from his prison).

Luo: Acts 2:24: Whom God hath raised up, having luo (loosed) the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Luo: 1 Corinthians 7:27: Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be luo (loosed). Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

The meaning of the word luo doubles-up as "broken" or "destroyed":
Ephesians 2:14: Jesus luo (loosed, broke down) the wall of partitiion between Jew and Gentile - the word doubles up as "destroyed".

John 5:18: Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had luo (broken, loosed) the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 2:19: Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy (luo: loose) this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
What is your point here exactly? I'm already aware that the word has multiple definitions, so you don't need to tell me that. One of the definitions is in relation to melting or destroying physical things. It's not used to describe annihilating things and I'm not even saying that, if that's what you're thinking.

2 Peter 3
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the ouranos (heavens) were of old, and the ge (earth) standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the kosmos (world) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the ouranos (heavens) and the ge (earth), which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly anthropos (men / humanity).

So most Christians read it like this:

7 But the ouranos (heavens) and the ge (earth), which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of the destruction of the ouranos (heavens) and the ge (earth).

Yet that's not what it says. It says the judgment and perdition of ungodly humanity.
Where did I say otherwise? Were you meaning to address this post to someone else? I do not interpret the phrase "the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" to be referring to the destruction of the heavens and the earth.

However, it does say before that part that the heavens and earth are reserved unto fire, and that is compared directly to the world in Noah's day being destroyed by water. Not annihilated. Destroyed in the sense that the water destroyed all of the living things on the earth that weren't in the ark and destroyed all the buildings and so on that were on the earth. By the same word the heavens and earth which are now are "reserved unto fire".


NOR were the heavens and the earth destroyed in the days of Noah, but rather the world and all ungodly men in it:

2 Peter 3

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the ouranos (heavens) were of old, and the ge (earth) standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the kosmos (world) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:​
Yes, but the world (the earth) itself was destroyed as well. All of the plants and animals and buildings and everything on the earth was destroyed. Peter said in relation to that: "the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire".

So, to me, that means the surface of the earth will once again be destroyed except this time it will be by fire instead of by water.


Peter is simply saying that God used the same water to destroy the world by water.
Right. And the water destroyed all of the people who didn't go through the door into the ark and everything else on the earth that wasn't on the ark. When Jesus returns, all of the people who didn't go through Jesus (The Door - John 10:9) to be saved and everything else on the earth will be destroyed by fire.

The word "luo" in 2 Peter 3:10 & 12 does not mean the heavens and earth are to be "melted" or dissolved (though most Christians seem determined to believe this).
We believe it because that is what it clearly says. But, are you thinking that I'm saying the heavens and earth will be annihilated? I very specifically said otherwise. The heavens and earth will not be melted down to the point of being annihilated, but rather will be changed similar to how our bodies are not annihilated but will be changed (1 Cor 15:51-52).


It's talking about the rudiments and principles of this world (stoicheion) being loosed, dissolved, broken up by fire - the fire of the judgment and perdition of ungodly anthropos:

7 But the ouranos (heavens) and the ge (earth), which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly anthropos (men / humanity).​
I disagree, but you are talking about one definition of the word "elements", but how can the melting and dissolving of the heavens and earth be understood as the melting and dissolving of the rudiments and principles of this world?


9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall parerchomai (suddenly seize upon them) with a great wirring whizzing noise, and the stoicheion (rudiments and principles of this world) shall luo (be loosed) with kausoo (fire, fervent heat),

the ge (earth) also and the ergon (works of men and of Satan and of darkness) that are therein shall be katakaio (wholly consumed).


It implies (as you have previously said) that the world will be wholly consumed by fire, just as the world was wholly consumed by water in the days of Noah. But

1. The heavens and the earth themselves were not destroyed by water in the days of Noah and the heavens and the earth themselves will not be destroyed by fire in the day of the judgment and perdition of ungodly humanity.
2. The word luo implies that the world will be loosed from being bound up by the stoicheion (rudiments and principles of this world). It does not imply that anything will be "melted": "Dissolved" is a much better word to use than "melted".​
You seem to not understand what I believe despite my having spelled it out. I never have said that the heavens and earth will be annihilated, yet that seems to be what you are arguing against. The new heavens and new earth are not entirely new heavens and earth, but rather will be the current heavens and earth made new.