Love Thy Neighbour As Thyself !

[Christina]

QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 17 2009, 02:06 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70991
I can easily love others and it truly doesn't matter about many of the superfluous things mentioned above but....I cannot, in all honesty, love someone that has murdered or raped another. I can't love someone that tortures others, mentally or physically. I do not believe we are expected to. Forgive them and execute them, yes....love them, no. At least I can't.

I probably am guilty of "watering it down," but again....I cannot love someone that is a beast, that revels in being a beast and there are some that do. There is much evil in this world, true, deep, dispicable evil and I cannot believe He wants us to love that.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil (depraved or bad in nature), and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:​

I just don't believe He expects us to love evil....even if that evil person is our neighbor, as ourself.
I think thats exacly part of the point Whirlwind I have to say I often feel the same. I dont think I could ever say I loved a child murder ect. But that doesnt change the commandment ... Its just we can not be that perfect, we all deal with our ideas of right and wrong good and bad, The Law is perfect ...we are not .. All we can do strive to be the best we can ...I dont think your watering it down I think you are being honest ..... We will all fall short ...How short is up to us

 

[shutin45]

Hi all

I had a couple of other thoughts(?) on this subject:Those that have done things that make them hard to love - if evil wasn't in this world and/or we weren't fallen, would they have done whatever it was?What did Paul do as Saul before he was converted?What about David, a man "after Gods own heart"?SOME murderers - not all but SOME - have been through terrible things as children and young adults. SOME did so in a fit of rage - full of hatred(?) and evil. Whatever the "reason", which I'm NOT trying to justify, they should be caught and pay the penalty.But - I think we're supposed to forgive them and love them but not their sin.Only God - through the Holy Spirit in us - can bring us to the point of being able to love others as He wants us to. For me, I had to go through INCREDIBLE trials and chastisement to reach this point. It STILL took MUCH HUMBLED PRAYER and asking for more love for God and others (who weren't lovable). Like the things I mentioned in an earlier post, evil works overtime getting EVERYONE to hurt others to whatever degree it can. Some only say and do "little things" that subtly hurt others and causes them to have a harder time loving others. Some do worse things to us that make it really hard to love others. Still others do even worse - remember Jim Elliot? the missionary who was murdered by the South American Indians? Others Christian actions - forgiveness and love - after his murder led those Indians to Christ. His children have been raised by the very guy that killed their dad. They call him grandpa!So, I believe God has reasons that He wants us to love ALL others. It's harder for some of us to do though because of things others have done to us. I gave Biblical examples and other discourse to try and help you all understand where I'm going with this and mentioned the prayer etc. because for some of us, that's what it takes to love as He wants us to

Bless Y'all!!Jim

 

[Jordan]

QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 17 2009, 08:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70997
QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 17 2009, 04:06 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70991
I can easily love others and it truly doesn't matter about many of the superfluous things mentioned above but....I cannot, in all honesty, love someone that has murdered or raped another. I can't love someone that tortures others, mentally or physically. I do not believe we are expected to. Forgive them and execute them, yes....love them, no. At least I can't.

I probably am guilty of "watering it down," but again....I cannot love someone that is a beast, that revels in being a beast and there are some that do. There is much evil in this world, true, deep, dispicable evil and I cannot believe He wants us to love that.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil (depraved or bad in nature), and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:​

I just don't believe He expects us to love evil....even if that evil person is our neighbor, as ourself.
I think thats exacly part of the point Whirlwind I have to say I often feel the same. I dont think I could ever say I loved a child murder ect. But that doesnt change the commandment ... Its just we can not be that perfect, we all deal with our ideas of right and wrong good and bad, The Law is perfect ...we are not .. All we can do strive to be the best we can ...I dont think your watering it down I think you are being honest ..... We will all fall short ...How short is up to usI too, feel the same... lately I've been reading articles about child murders whether from a parent or not... I had an evil thought like a couple days ago... and I wanted to kill a person... so that is itself...... Christina is right... the Law is perfect, we are not. So yes, it does make it extremely hard for me to love a child murderer. ... but all in all honesty... even if I wanted to kill someone, I still can't do it... because I love nature. So therefore I have to bite and swallow my tongue and eat it... Every evil hurts me...

 

[savedbygrace57]

QUOTE
No saved you are missing the point
No, you are missing the point..you have ignored tons of scripture i have given..QUOTE
So, I believe God has reasons that He wants us to love ALL others
Thats because you ignore scriptures i have plainly shown that teaches otherwise..

 

[Christina]

QUOTE (shutin45 @ Mar 17 2009, 06:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70999
Hi all

I had a couple of other thoughts(?) on this subject:Those that have done things that make them hard to love - if evil wasn't in this world and/or we weren't fallen, would they have done whatever it was?What did Paul do as Saul before he was converted?What about David, a man "after Gods own heart"?SOME murderers - not all but SOME - have been through terrible things as children and young adults. SOME did so in a fit of rage - full of hatred(?) and evil. Whatever the "reason", which I'm NOT trying to justify, they should be caught and pay the penalty.But - I think we're supposed to forgive them and love them but not their sin.Only God - through the Holy Spirit in us - can bring us to the point of being able to love others as He wants us to. For me, I had to go through INCREDIBLE trials and chastisement to reach this point. It STILL took MUCH HUMBLED PRAYER and asking for more love for God and others (who weren't lovable). Like the things I mentioned in an earlier post, evil works overtime getting EVERYONE to hurt others to whatever degree it can. Some only say and do "little things" that subtly hurt others and causes them to have a harder time loving others. Some do worse things to us that make it really hard to love others. Still others do even worse - remember Jim Elliot? the missionary who was murdered by the South American Indians? Others Christian actions - forgiveness and love - after his murder led those Indians to Christ. His children have been raised by the very guy that killed their dad. They call him grandpa!So, I believe God has reasons that He wants us to love ALL others. It's harder for some of us to do though because of things others have done to us. I gave Biblical examples and other discourse to try and help you all understand where I'm going with this and mentioned the prayer etc. because for some of us, that's what it takes to love as He wants us to

Bless Y'all!!Jim
True in some cases but again because we are not God .... we can not judge anothers heart, we can not know their life stroy If one is a big enough person to love a child murder anyway good for them ... All I can say is I fall shorter than that I can not love that person who does this reguardless of why he came to do it. I may come to understand the reason he became what he was ...And feel pity for that ... but I can not love him .... but Gods says we are to send these people to him to face their judegment .... His sins are on his headEvery situation is differnt if I had been in Africa I could have probably forgiven the crime and loved the people anyway thats why I say it just depends on how short we choose to fall ... If we fall to the state where we are hating everyone simply because they are different than us in some way we have fallen way to short.Again I have the same answer the Law is perfect ....We are not we all fall short.... some more than others....

 

[Jordan]

QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 17 2009, 11:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71006
True in some cases but again because we are not God .... we can not judge anothers heart, we can not know their life stroy If one is a big enough person to love a child murder anyway good for them ... All I can say is I fall shorter than that I can not love that person who does this reguardless of why he came to do it. I may come to understand the reason he became what he was ...And feel pity for that ... but I can not love him .... but Gods says we are to send these people to him to face their judegment .... His sins are on his headEvery situation is differnt if I had been in Africa I could have probably forgiven the crime and loved the people anyway thats why I say it just depends on how short we choose to fall ... If we fall to the state where we are hating everyone simply because they are different than us in some way we have fallen way to short.
I understand that you can't love someone who murders a person... however if we depend and reply on Christ... Christ will help us work through that... so that we may love them... Now if one chose not to rely on Christ for trying to love them and try to improve the Love as Christ commanded us to do so... Then that means to me that they chose to neglect His commandment...And to do so means you WANT to stay and fall short.But you are right Christina, we are suppose to send the murderers back to our Father...

 

[For Life]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"When you say you can't love a murderer I think what you mean is you can't love the act of murder. I don't think you are supposed to love the sin, but the sinner is just like you and me. In need of a saviour.

 

[savedbygrace57]

QUOTE
Neighbor means Your people, (family, friends, local neighbors etc)
In the context of the OP, the Jews would have only considered others of the tribes of Israel as such..not the philistines and amakalites..

 

[shutin45]

Christina said: True in some cases but again because we are not God .... we can not judge anothers heart, we can not know their life stroy Yep. I was just saying I think because God sees ALL, and He realizes evil has a hand in such, that MAYBE that's PART of the reason He tells us not to judge, and tells us to love EVERYONE. As you said, the reasons are irrelevant because we're commanded to obey regardless. I have just found that trying to understand helps sometimes. If one is a big enough person to love a child murder anyway good for them ...Amen. I'd have a REALLY hard time doing so. Even worse or as bad - Child molesters. They do SO MUCH damage to people. NOT THAT IT MATTERS - but I think the VA Tech murderer and another I can't recall were molested. I knew an intelligent wonderful professor who was abused as a child by a catholic priest and unfortunately it hardened his heart towards religion. All of his children aren't Christians because he refused to attend church due to it. Evil won a battle due to others sins there. All I can say is I fall shorter than that I can not love that person who does this reguardless of why he came to do it.Me too, but placed where we had to deal with someone like that in person, we'd have to try in order to obey wouldn't we? I may come to understand the reason he became what he was ...And feel pity for that ... but I can not love him .... but Gods says we are to send these people to him to face their judegment .... His sins are on his headEvery situation is differnt if I had been in Africa I could have probably forgiven the crime and loved the people anyway thats why I say it just depends on how short we choose to fall ... If we fall to the state where we are hating everyone simply because they are different than us in some way we have fallen way to short.It was South America. A movie was made about it.Again I have the same answer the Law is perfect ....We are not we all fall short.... some more than others....BUT.... Sinning by not loving is just as bad as homosexuality, fornication, etc. isn't it? Are our reasons/justifications, which are right to me by mans standards, any better/acceptable to God than their reasons?It's not supposed to be okay to fall short if we know we are. Aren't we supposed to work on any sinful shortcomings?Still trying to come to grips with this 2nd most important Commandment

In Christ,JimQUOTE (For Life @ Mar 18 2009, 07:12 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71015
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"When you say you can't love a murderer I think what you mean is you can't love the act of murder. I don't think you are supposed to love the sin, but the sinner is just like you and me. In need of a saviour.
Amen!!

 

[tomwebster]

QUOTE (shutin45 @ Mar 18 2009, 03:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71029
... If one is a big enough person to love a child murder anyway good for them ......
You might have "love" for the person by keeping them in jail, getting help, and not allowing them to live next to a school as long as the courts are not willing to send them back to the Father.

 

[Christina]

QUOTE (shutin45 @ Mar 18 2009, 01:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71029
Christina said: True in some cases but again because we are not God .... we can not judge anothers heart, we can not know their life stroy Yep. I was just saying I think because God sees ALL, and He realizes evil has a hand in such, that MAYBE that's PART of the reason He tells us not to judge, and tells us to love EVERYONE. As you said, the reasons are irrelevant because we're commanded to obey regardless. I have just found that trying to understand helps sometimes. If one is a big enough person to love a child murder anyway good for them ...Amen. I'd have a REALLY hard time doing so. Even worse or as bad - Child molesters. They do SO MUCH damage to people. NOT THAT IT MATTERS - but I think the VA Tech murderer and another I can't recall were molested. I knew an intelligent wonderful professor who was abused as a child by a catholic priest and unfortunately it hardened his heart towards religion. All of his children aren't Christians because he refused to attend church due to it. Evil won a battle due to others sins there. All I can say is I fall shorter than that I can not love that person who does this reguardless of why he came to do it.Me too, but placed where we had to deal with someone like that in person, we'd have to try in order to obey wouldn't we? I may come to understand the reason he became what he was ...And feel pity for that ... but I can not love him .... but Gods says we are to send these people to him to face their judegment .... His sins are on his headEvery situation is differnt if I had been in Africa I could have probably forgiven the crime and loved the people anyway thats why I say it just depends on how short we choose to fall ... If we fall to the state where we are hating everyone simply because they are different than us in some way we have fallen way to short.It was South America. A movie was made about it.Again I have the same answer the Law is perfect ....We are not we all fall short.... some more than others....BUT.... Sinning by not loving is just as bad as homosexuality, fornication, etc. isn't it? Are our reasons/justifications, which are right to me by mans standards, any better/acceptable to God than their reasons?It's not supposed to be okay to fall short if we know we are. Aren't we supposed to work on any sinful shortcomings?Still trying to come to grips with this 2nd most important Commandment

In Christ,JimAmen!!

Of course we are to try to be perfect, but we will will fail, but thats no excuse not to try...and as Tom says loving this person may entail locking them up ...to keep them from sinning futher ... I do not not think there is a black and white answer that covers all situations ...except Gods ... Love thy neighbor as thyself ... A perfect law the interpetation of that Law to how it applies to every situation and every person is going to vary with the situation and the person/peoples involved ...The Law is Perfect its met to be ....We are not we can not be..... Christ died because man can not live by the Law ........ We need Grace .......that Doest mean we are not to strive to reach the perfection of the Law... but because we are all sinners,we all fall short .... For most general cases hate the sin ..not the sinner suffices, but it too is a two edged sword .... Not hating the sinner is not the same as telling them its ok to sin ..but rather helping them understand why its a sin and how and who will help them overcome it.... I also think we can take a lesson from the Words "As thyself" .... Would I love myself if I harmed a Child ... No... So am I to love others who do ? If I loved myself for harming a child and there fore loved others that did the same what would that say about my heart ??? Just food for thought

 

[shutin45]

Well Y'all, I guess I'm good at talking the talk and not walking the walk in this area.My family and I had BAD problems with neighbors where we used to live, and added to my life experiences with others, the things made it REALLY hard to love others.We moved to our new home, and have great neighbors. Yesterday when I was working at my Mom and Dads house though, I was having a hard time when their neighbors were outside. Had some minor problems with them too, and they are friends with our old neighbors.Anyway, I kept remembering this topic. It was SO easy to say I was more loving now, and I am, but I apparently have a LONG way to go.PLEASE pray for me y'all. I need to love even those who have done bad things to us. It's not REALLY JUST them that did the stuff. Evil knew what their actions would do to me and my family. Especially me. Evil has used others my WHOLE LIFE to hurt me and interfere with my ability to love others as I should.Again, PLEASE say a prayer for me y'all.Your (far from perfect but trying with help from the Holy Spirit) Brother In Christ,Jim

 

[Christina]

I think we are all in the same boat Jim, All we can do as you say is try the best we can with fathers help Just remember loving someone doesnt alway mean putting yourself in postion that you or family gets hurt in the process ... If those neighbors were hungry or thirsty would you feed and give them water ?? ..I think you would so you may love them more than you think... We just get carried away with our human emotions at times .. Will pray for you Jim God Bless

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

QUOTE (savedbygrace57 @ Mar 17 2009, 10:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71002
No, you are missing the point..you have ignored tons of scripture i have given..Thats because you ignore scriptures i have plainly shown that teaches otherwise..
SBG 57, I sincerely hope you pray before making any more posts. While I don't think you're lying, I just don't believe you. I know you honestly and sincerely mean the best by what you post, and you sincerely believe it with all your heart. You are mislead somewhere and are lacking prayerfull insight to the word of God. Be careful what you post, pray read and reread as you may be wrong and thus lead a younger or weaker brother into doubt and confusion.