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Lucifer

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by charleychacko, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. charleychacko

    charleychacko New Member

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    I have heard many references to the Angel Lucifer and the 1/3 of the angels who followed him against God... where does this information come from?I am quite certain that in the NIV bible, there is no mention of Lucifer, and in the King James Version, he is mentioned only once in Isaiah 14:12... so how do we gather anything besides the fact that he rebelled against God from that one verse? Where did the 1/3 come from?
     
  2. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Lucifer is given many names in the Bible of which the former is only a single one. We're given various clues all throughout the Bible when his name is mentioned.The third of the host of heaven comes from Revelation:Revelation 12:4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.We have many other verses using other names for him. He often is called Satan and that spans both the Old and the New Testaments.Luke 10:18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.Revelation 20:2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,Lucifer being his original God-given name when he was an angel of the Lord. In other verse he is addressed as the angel of the bottomless pit (Greek Apollyon and Hebrew Abbadon) and he is very often called "Death":Revelation 6:8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.There are other titles certainly, and each title is pretty much a way to unlock some of his other names. I think the message of the Bible in doing this is that he can appear in many forms from that of his angel of light form Lucifer to a personified Death.
     
  3. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Its not how many times God uses a particular name that denotes its importance.God often uses different names to show a different aspect of ones character.much in the same way we do for example a you might call a Friend by their given name,or you might just say, my friend, or if speaking to your friends parents you might say your daughter/son.Which term you use depends on the context of what you are saying.
     
  4. Love123

    Love123 New Member

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    (charleychacko)
    I have heard many references to the Angel Lucifer and the 1/3 of the angels who followed him against God... where does this information come from?I am quite certain that in the NIV bible, there is no mention of Lucifer, and in the King James Version, he is mentioned only once in Isaiah 14:12... so how do we gather anything besides the fact that he rebelled against God from that one verse? Where did the 1/3 come from?
    REV..12:4......................DEMONS FELL. ONE THIRD OF THE STARS...JOB28:7 ......................ANGELS REFERRED TO AS STARS. REV. 1:20................... ANGELS REFERRED TO AS STARS.Isaiah 14:12-14 How art thou fallen from Heaven oh Lucifer... Oh sun of the morning?How art thou cut down to the ground?Lucifer was his name...before the fall................that was the beginning..............he not that anymore.(This is my analogy of the name Lucifer........."It’s like a seed can only be a seed for so long.......once it takes root it’s not a seed any longer".) Like wise..........Lucifer was made mention of.......as he was. .........Now he so many names..............to show who he is and what he does.God Bless.......Love123
     
  5. Toolapc

    Toolapc New Member

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    i was just wondering why satan was kicked out of heaven is it because God Created mankind and it pissed satan OFF. also why would God Give satan rule over our plane or domain maybee to make our heaven greater.
     
  6. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Satan was cast down from heaven because he rebelled against God. This happened long before he created man.Revelation 12:4-5And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.However, the best description of what happened comes in Ezekiel 28. Here Satan is given the title king of Tyrus. A lot of people seemingly want to argue that the king here is a man as the price before him, but they ignore what God tells them:Ezekiel 12:12-14Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.I've made a break here for a reason.Ezekiel 28:15-17Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
    also why would God Give satan rule over our plane or domain maybee to make our heaven greater.
    God didn't really give him rule; at least in the sense that he won't have absolute control, though he will come close. As we have seen from the book of Job, he can only do what God allows and nothing more. The explanation for us being here and things being the way they are is a complicated subject, because it's basically the reason for life. I cover this in my The Earth Ages Bible Study because it would be much too long here.In a nutshell, we're here to find out whos side we're on. Satan is already condemned and he's trying to drag as many with him as he can. Afterall, he originally drew 1/3 of the host of heaven.
     
  7. servant_of_the_end

    servant_of_the_end New Member

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    I agree with Kriss who says this:
    God often uses different names to show a different aspect of ones character
    Lucifer has many names just as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the Alpha and Omega, the Root of David does.It denotes one aspect of Satans character. As the cherub who covers he is referenced as Swamp Fox denoted he is refrenced as the King of Tyre. He is also the accuser of the brethren when he plays this role. Also of note our Lord Yeshua, the beginning and the end is referenced only once as the King of the Ages which characterizes Him when He comes to rule the nations at the beginning of the next age with an iron scepter; and the next age is the mellinium.
     
  8. servant_of_the_end

    servant_of_the_end New Member

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    Swamp Fox
    God didn't really give him rule; at least in the sense that he won't have absolute control, though he will come close.
    I'm not so sure this is quite correct, but you can correct me if I get it wrong. But satan is the god of this world right now. We, as servants and saints of God are in as sense the rebel force in that we rebel against his rule by procaiming the advent of the Kingdom of God and work against the one who would be king.
    Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." 16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign.
    The seventh and last trump is when the tranformation of the dead and living of those found to be in Chirst occurs and we meet Him in the air and descend with Him and His angels. Until then the kingdom of this world is firmly in the hands of the god of this world.
     
  9. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Again, as I said, he doesn't have absolute control as we have seen in the book of Job. He is still ultimately answerable to God, he can only do what He permits, and nothing more. That's not to say that he doesn't have a great degree of control, and it will indeed only get worse before it gets better (or perfect) in the end. I guess it depends upon personal interpretations of complete control, but I want to emphasize who is ultimately in charge.
     
  10. servant_of_the_end

    servant_of_the_end New Member

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    Again, as I said, he doesn't have absolute control as we have seen in the book of Job. He is still ultimately answerable to God, he can only do what He permits, and nothing more. That's not to say that he doesn't have a great degree of control, and it will indeed only get worse before it gets better (or perfect) in the end. I guess it depends upon personal interpretations of complete control, but I want to emphasize who is ultimately in charge.
    This is true as it relates to Job, but as sojourners as pilgrims towards the City not built with the hands of man, and citizens of the Kingdom of God we are no longer under the rule of the god of this world. The rule of the lawless one only applies to those who are still bound to his domain. We are not of this world or its rule and kingdom any longer and are only passing through.The accuser does go before the throne and is instructed as to what permissions he has when dealing with whose who now belong to another kingdom, but his advances towards us are regulated by the permission of God and kept in check by the hand of the angels. And that is seen in your citation of satans hand on the servant Job. The father of lies, destroyer and deceiver is as a lion and comes to kill, steal and destroy and does so with impunity each and every day. This is an area of providence that is difficult to grasp and handle and I'm certain many mysteries as to how things really work respectively between the kingdom of darkness and of the light will be revealed on the day of judgement and the eterinity that follows. For now we can only assmilate knowledge from the writings of the servants and/or direct revelation from the Holy Spirit to attempt to understand the workings of the spritual and material and the interaction thereof.
     
  11. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Agreed.I have to point out that Job was in the Lord as we are to clarify for those who read this thread. Satan is addressed out right as the god(little 'g') of this world in the Bible in one instance. It's fair to say that those who are not of the one true God are of this god of the world because they partake in the abominations of this world. We have the power, as noted to us in Luke 10:19, over this, as you pointed out, when we put God in charge.We also have to put in perspective that satan can do things to us but only as much as we can bare as determined by God - this is witnessed in Job's tribulation and realization. I hope and pray that none of us here have to go through what Job went through, though. However, this is an excellent view of what the old enemy will do to turn you away.1 Peter 5:8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
     
  12. servant_of_the_end

    servant_of_the_end New Member

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    I would add that when the antichrist is revelaed he will make war with the saints, and many will die in and before the Lord. This again leads to wonderment of just where does the hand of the ruler of the darkness end and the hand of providence begin.Also we have the testimony of our Lord when he said that when the evil spirit leaves a man, and that man returns to his former ways, the evil spirit comes back with many more and the state of that man is worse that at the time before the vessel was cleansed initially.I must sincerely say swampfox, you are a fine writer with good insight.
     
  13. Love123

    Love123 New Member

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    (Toolapc;2008)
    i was just wondering why satan was kicked out of heaven is it because God Created mankind and it pissed satan OFF. also why would God Give satan rule over our plane or domain maybee to make our heaven greater.
    Isaiah 13-14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I .............will ascend into heaven, I............ will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I............ will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:I ............will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I............ will be like the most High.Lucifer had ........I trouble........he should have seen an optometrist.Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.Pride................. Is a sin. Lucifer fail because of Pride.1 Timothy 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devilGod BlessLove123
     
  14. Love123

    Love123 New Member

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    “also why would God Give satan rule over our plane or domain maybee to make our heaven greater.”Perhaps since we have free will...............and Satan was the first sinner...........The angels not made like puppets to honor GodWe imagine God must have made them to have free will or Satan would have been a perfect puppet.....Since Satan rebelled as well as one third of the Angels;Perhaps God allowed the first Sinner to test men on earth.To see who might rebel against God and follow Lucifer.And any and all that would follow him; in due season they could all burn together.So he is given power to be God of this world, he temps men on earth through deception and accuses them before God. The names fit his purposes........and its clear God is not in creativity of puppets.It’s a thoughtGod BlessLove123I JOHN 3:8...........................THE FIRST SINNERMATTHEW 4:3...................THE TEMPTERREV. 12:9.............................THE DECEIVERREV. 12:10...........................THE ACCUSER2 COR. 4:4.......................THE god OF THIS WORLD
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Very well put nice job
     
  16. Love123

    Love123 New Member

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    Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
     
  17. servant_of_the_end

    servant_of_the_end New Member

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    I heard one time that sin is 'I will' rather than 'His will.'
     
  18. Greatest I Am

    Greatest I Am New Member

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    Withought discent there is no arguements.God does not need to justify any of His teachings but enjoys bringing information to those who do need reaformation and guidance in their path to Him.God created all concepts that exist including discent. All concept invented by God are there to be use. I should highlight that good arguemts should include a good logic trail to have value. Anything else is probably ignore by God.RegardsDL
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Greatest I Am;6081)
    Withought discent there is no arguements.God does not need to justify any of His teachings but enjoys bringing information to those who do need reaformation and guidance in their path to Him.God created all concepts that exist including discent. All concept invented by God are there to be use. I should highlight that good arguemts should include a good logic trail to have value. Anything else is probably ignore by God.RegardsDL
    What a bunch of bull to put it as politely as I can
     
  20. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    (kriss;6109)
    What a bunch of bull to put it as politely as I can
    That's for sure!
     
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