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Featured LUKE 19:11 NIGH TO JERUSALEM

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Doug, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Luke 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

    Being near to Jerusalem was significant because of prophecy in regard to the Davidic kingdom. Jesus would reign on David's throne in Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:3 Luke 1:32-33).

    The twelve were to preach remission of sins in the name of Jesus among the Gentile nations in the kingdom beginning at Jerusalem (Luke 24:47).

    19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

    The parable teaches that Jesus will be received into heaven and will come again (Mark 16:19 John 14:3).

    19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

    19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

    19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

    The parable teaches that Jesus will come again to establish the earthly Davidic kingdom (1 Peter 1:7 2 Peter 1:11 Matthew 6:10).

    19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

    19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

    The twelve apostles and the believing remnant of Israel will reign with Christ over the Gentile nations in the kingdom (Mathew 19:28 Revelation 20:6).

    19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
     
  2. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You are painting a picture of a worldly kingdom, while His kingdom is not of this world.

    This you have apparently done because you have not answered the question correctly which Jesus asked the Pharisees:

    "While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to Him, “The Son of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: ‘The LORD said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” ’? If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?
     
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  3. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    Jesus was talking of an earthly kingdom for Israel.
    The body of Christ has a heavenly kingdom.
    It is incumbent on us to understand the difference to rightly divide scripture.
     
  4. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. So why do you advocate for a worldly kingdom for either?
     
  5. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    I am just teaching what the Bible is saying.
     
  6. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Jesus came to establish a spiritual kingdom here on earth.
    He hoped that Christians would effect a change in how humans behave.
    All He did was speak about this Kingdom.

    We also will have, at the end of time, a real new Kingdom here on earth...the New Jerusalem, I believe it's called.

    Not only for the Jews,
    for everyone that is a member of the Church...the Body of Christ.
     
  7. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    But if you teach only the words in their confounded form rather than discerning them in spirit, then you are teaching them in error...which you are.

    The Bible may appear to "say" that Christ returns and leads the 144 thousand during a thousand year reign physically upon the earth...but that is not what is true. It does not say physically, but rather that He comes with His saints with Him, which is by the glory of the Father, which is to say, in spirit. And it is not wrong to say that He comes bodily, but it is wrong to say He comes in the flesh, that is, except in that body which is the church.

    Thus, these things which you have read have become like someone speaking to you in a foreign tongue, things spoke in parable, but without interpretation by the Holy Spirit. His words are spirit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  8. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    I am sorry, but if as you say the Bible does not say what it says, then you and I have no way to find common ground for discussion.
     
  9. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    That is not Biblical...the body of Christ has a position in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6).
     
  10. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, we may not have common ground, but we should. We should both be of the same Spirit...which is the point.

    The Bible, as it is with all language, was confounded by God at Babel. That what men are inclined to see differently could be discerned in spirit having One source and meaning. This is that "flaming sword" guarding the way to the tree of life. Therefore, when I tell you that God has done this, you may know because it is written, but also know that it is the truth, because "It is the Spirit who gives life."
     
  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    And you have conveniently omitted all the Gentiles who are within the Church and the Kingdom of God. According to your *gospel* half a loaf is better than none!

    It is never a good idea to be constantly promoting false teachings, and there is really no need. What you should be doing is learning, not trying to teach nonsense.
     
  12. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    Jesus during his earthly ministry was only going to Israel (Matthew 15:24), not to the Gentiles, so that is the emphasis I place in my posts......if you read all my posts I speak of the Gentiles being blessed through Israel.
     
  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    But you should know that you are CLEARLY MISTAKEN. The first group of sinners who were saved when Christ was on earth were Gentile Samaritans (or so they were regarded by the Jews). So there goes your theory.

    JOHN 4
    4 And he must needs go through Samaria.
    5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.
    6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with hisjourney, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
    7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her,Give me to drink...
    25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
    26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he...
    28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
    29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
    30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him..
    39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

    40 So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.
    41 And many more believed because of his own word;
    42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
    43 Now after two days he departed thence, and went into Galilee.
    44 For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.


    After then we read about a "certain nobleman" (a Gentile) who came to Christ and believed on Him. And there are many other Gentiles mentioned in the Gospel who were saved by grace.
     
  14. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    Jesus initially told the disciples not to go into Samaritan cities in Matthew 10:5 and then they would be witnesses in Samaria in Acts 1:8.
    Jesus would by grace bless those who blessed Israel as with the woman at the well and the centurion.
     
  15. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    John 4 is chronologically before that. And it was He (Christ) PERSONALLY who determined to go to Samaria. You get an A for persistence and an F for accuracy.
     
  16. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    "Jesus initially told the disciples not to go into Samaritan cities in Matthew 10:5 and then they would be witnesses in Samaria in Acts 1:8" was not presented to be a chronological explanation I was only presenting the difference in the dealings with Samaria.

    Jesus did command them to go to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 10:6) and Jesus said he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24).

    God always made provision to Gentiles who became a Jew or to those who blessed Israel. The Gentiles who believed the word of God were blessed.

    By the way, If I am correct, the Samaritans were not pure Gentile but were a mix of Gentiles and Jews.
     
  17. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    You could believe what you like Doug.
    Welcome to the forum.

    I'm going to list some commentary...
    you could read it or not...however, it is known that we are the Body of Christ right now,,,that we live in a Spiritual Kingdom where Jesus is the head...and one day we will live with Him literally.

    ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

    Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
    2:1-10 Sin is the death of the soul. A man dead in trespasses and sins has no desire for spiritual pleasures. When we look upon a corpse, it gives an awful feeling. A never-dying spirit is now fled, and has left nothing but the ruins of a man. But if we viewed things aright, we should be far more affected by the thought of a dead soul, a lost, fallen spirit. A state of sin is a state of conformity to this world. Wicked men are slaves to Satan. Satan is the author of that proud, carnal disposition which there is in ungodly men; he rules in the hearts of men. From Scripture it is clear, that whether men have been most prone to sensual or to spiritual wickedness, all men, being naturally children of disobedience, are also by nature children of wrath. What reason have sinners, then, to seek earnestly for that grace which will make them, of children of wrath, children of God and heirs of glory! God's eternal love or good-will toward his creatures, is the fountain whence all his mercies flow to us; and that love of God is great love, and that mercy is rich mercy. And every converted sinner is a saved sinner; delivered from sin and wrath. The grace that saves is the free, undeserved goodness and favour of God; and he saves, not by the works of the law, but through faith in Christ Jesus. Grace in the soul is a new life in the soul. A regenerated sinner becomes a living soul; he lives a life of holiness, being born of God: he lives, being delivered from the guilt of sin, by pardoning and justifying grace. Sinners roll themselves in the dust; sanctified souls sit in heavenly places, are raised above this world, by Christ's grace. The goodness of God in converting and saving sinners heretofore, encourages others in after-time, to hope in his grace and mercy. Our faith, our conversion, and our eternal salvation, are not of works, lest any man should boast. These things are not brought to pass by any thing done by us, therefore all boasting is shut out. All is the free gift of God, and the effect of being quickened by his power. It was his purpose, to which he prepared us, by blessing us with the knowledge of his will, and his Holy Spirit producing such a change in us, that we should glorify God by our good conversation, and perseverance in holiness. None can from Scripture abuse this doctrine, or accuse it of any tendency to evil. All who do so, are without excuse.Barnes' Notes on the BibleAnd hath raised us up together - That is, we are raised from the death of sin to the life of religion, in connection with the resurrection of Jesus, and in virtue of that. So close is the connection between him and his people, that his resurrection made theirs certain; compare Colossians 2:12; notes, Romans 6:5.
    And made us sit together - Together with him. That is, we share his honors. So close is our connection with him, that we shall partake of his glory, and in some measure do now; compare the Matthew 19:28, note, and Romans 8:17, note.

    In heavenly places - see the notes at Ephesians 1:3. The meaning is, that he has gone to the heavenly world as our Head and Representative. His entrance there is a pledge that we shall also enter there. Even here we have the anticipation of glory, and are admitted to exalted honors, as if we sat in heavenly places, in virtue of our connection with him.

    In Christ Jesus - It is in connection with him that we are thus exalted, and thus filled with joy and peace. The meaning of the whole is," We are united to Christ. We die with him, and live with him. We share his sufferings, and we share his joys. We become dead to the world in virtue of his death; we become alive unto God in virtue of his resurrection. On earth we are exalted to honor, peace, and hope, in virtue of his resurrection; in heaven we shall share his, glory and partake of his triumphs."Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
    6. raised us up together—with Christ. The "raising up" presupposes previous quickening of Jesus in the tomb, and of us in the grave of our sins.
    made us sit together—with Christ, namely, in His ascension. Believers are bodily in heaven in point of right, and virtually so in spirit, and have each their own place assigned there, which in due time they shall take possession of (Php 3:20, 21). He does not say, "on the right hand of God"; a prerogative reserved to Christ peculiarly; though they shall share His throne (Re 3:21).

    in Christ Jesus—Our union with Him is the ground of our present spiritual, and future bodily, resurrection and ascension. "Christ Jesus" is the phrase mostly used in this Epistle, in which the office of the Christ, the Anointed Prophet, Priest and King, is the prominent thought; when the Person is prominent, "Jesus Christ" is the phrase used.

    Matthew Poole's Commentary
    And hath raised us up together; either this may be understood of a further degree of spiritual life in the progress of sanctification vouchsafed to believers in this world; or rather, of the resurrection of the body, which is said to be raised together with Christ, because it is to be raised by the same power that raised him up, and by virtue of his resurrection, in which we have fellowship with him, as being united to him.

    And made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, as our Head, and representative. Our spiritual enlivening {Ephesians 2:5} we have not only fundamentally in Christ when restored to life, but actually begun in ourselves in our effectual calling; but the resurrection of our bodies, and our sitting in heaven, we have not as yet actually fulfilled in ourselves, yet have it in Christ our Head, who rose for us and we in him, and sits in heaven for us, and we in him may be said to sit there too, by reason of our union with him, and being members of him.

    Bengel's Gnomen
    Ephesians 2:6. Συνεκάθισεν, made us sit together) Believers are already spiritually raised; they will be raised in the body; and to each of the two resurrections the sitting in heavenly places corresponds. They are not, indeed, present in heaven in the body, but they are so in point of right, and virtually in the spirit, and they have individually a seat expressly assigned to them, which is to be taken possession of at the proper time. They are for a while hidden in God; Colossians 3:3.—ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις, in the heavenlies) He does not say, on the right hand. To Christ this is left as His own peculiar pre-eminence [prerogative].—Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ, in Christ Jesus) In this sublime discourse, especially, Paul calls Him Christ Jesus; oftener on other occasions, Jesus Christ.Pulpit CommentaryVerse 6. - And hath raised us up with him(comp. Philippians 3:10); so that we no longer walk "according to the course of this world," but according to the life of Christ; we walk "in newness of life." And seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. As God placed Jesus at his right hand in heaven, so he has placed his people with him in heavenly places; i.e. places where the privileges of heaven are dispensed, where the air of heaven is breathed, where the fellowship and the enjoyment of heaven are known, where an elevation of spirit is experienced as if heaven were begun. Such was the case of the three disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration; of the two on the way to Emmaus, when their heart burned within them; of the beloved disciple when he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's day;" of many at the Holy Supper, or in fervent communion with brother and sister believers, when they seem at the very gate of heaven. This is sometimes the experience at conversion, but the vividness of the feeling does not always abide. The repetition of "in Christ Jesus" in this connection emphasizes the fact that this gracious proceeding of God towards us is in immediate connection with the work and person of Christ. It is as being one with Christ Jesus that all this raising up comes to us.

    source: Ephesians 2:6 Commentaries: and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
     
  18. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    I think I misunderstood some of your doctrine, I thought you meant we were now in a spiritual kingdom here on earth and that Christ was not literally and physically coming. I agree the body of Christ is positionally in heavenly places in Christ now and we will be with him with spiritual bodies.

    I do have to disagree that we also get the kingdom on earth; that is for the believing remnant of Israel (Exodus 19:5-6 1 Peter 2:9 Luke 22:29-30 Acts 1:6 Deuteronomy 4:40 Matthew 19:28 Luke 12:32) and the Gentile nations that blessed Israel (Matthew 25:32-46).
     
  19. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by the Kingdom on earth?
    I'll tell you right now that I don't know too much eschatology, but just a little.

    Don't you believe that when the world ends, God will resurrect our bodies and we will be living in a "real" place?
     
  20. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    God will indeed give us resurrected bodies and we will be in heaven with Christ.

    The kingdom on earth is where Jesus comes back and establishes his kingdom from Jerusalem sitting on the throne of David and ruling the nations for a thousand years.
     
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