Luke the Physician and Divine Healing

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7angels

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Arnie Manitoba said:
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With all respect sir i am a bible based christian .... and because of that i recognize when somebody is trying to force-fit selected scriptures to push everybody toward a certain beleif.

BigAndy pointed that out in his post above and I agree with him.

If I made the claim that i could heal the sick on a regular basis .... I would give a demonstration right in front of you and everybody .....

i would not be like lesjude and take selected verses from the bible showing that an apostle healed ... and thus we should be able to do it also

just because he quotes inapropriate scripture does not make his claim true .... and because i do not quote scripture does not make what i say untrue.
i believe you when you say that if we cannot prove that what we say is true by being able to back it up then there is no need to believe it. however in this case i can tell you truthfully that healing is for today and it can and is happening each day for me. i don't believe some of lesjude's reasoning he comes up with but i do agree with him that healing can and should be part of our every day routine. in order to get healing to work on someone here we need to boost their expectations which will increase their hope and hope will become faith. this is why healing ministries spend time getting out the word before hand by demonstrating it to people and having people give their testimonies. this raises their expectation that if they show up that they will be healed. this mind set is needed in order to gain the faith necessary to be healed. also as long as we remember that the healing may be done through us that it is God who is actually healing and thus it is to God that gets the glory for our healing.

God bless
 
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Arnie Manitoba

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I know athiests who did not pray and were healed (regained their health)

I know christians who did not pray and were healed (regained their health)

I know christians who did pray and were healed (regained their health)

I know christians who have never really been sick their whole lives

I know athiests who have never really been sick their whole lives.

It looks like a level playing field to me.

Can't we make the claim that the athiest got better because he did not pray ?

It's the same logic as saying the beleiver got better because he did pray

none of this proves anything.
 

lesjude

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Arnie Manitoba said:
I know athiests who did not pray and were healed (regained their health)

I know christians who did not pray and were healed (regained their health)

I know christians who did pray and were healed (regained their health)

I know christians who have never really been sick their whole lives
See comments below.



I know athiests who have never really been sick their whole lives.
God has mercy and gives it to both saved and unsaved. Why should the devil afflict an atheist. He is in his kingdom anyway and sickness might convince him of sin.

It looks like a level playing field to me.
The devil does not play fair and uses religion to lull Christians into a religious stupor. Religion is the opiate of the people.


Can't we make the claim that the athiest got better because he did not pray ?
God has mercy and the body is a marvelous creation. However if he does not receve Jesus he will spend eternity in hell inspite of all the mercy God gave him.


It's the same logic as saying the beleiver got better because he did pray

none of this proves anything.
There are MANY diseases that cannot be healed. People die of them or spend the rest of their lives in an institution or on drugs to be able to live with the symptoms. We have seen these impossible cases for the human body or the medical system to heal be healed in Jesus' name. What will you do if the medical system tells you they cannot help you?
 

Arnie Manitoba

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lesjude .... now you are saying healings are done by Gods mercy .... i agree .... are you backing off from your claims of having an apostolistic anointing for healing ?

if the medical system tells me they cannot help me then I will die and await my new body at the ressurection.

of course i would have also prayed for a healing from above and asked my freinds to pray also ... but i will still die some day.

i am 61 and should have been dead 11 times already .... i counted them.
 

lesjude

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Arnie Manitoba said:
lesjude .... now you are saying healings are done by Gods mercy .... i agree .... are you backing off from your claims of having an apostolistic anointing for healing ?

if the medical system tells me they cannot help me then I will die and await my new body at the ressurection.

of course i would have also prayed for a healing from above and asked my freinds to pray also ... but i will still die some day.

i am 61 and should have been dead 11 times already .... i counted them.
No, I am no apostle nor does anyone need that anointing to heal or be healed. I have clearly said as the Bible does that "...those who believe... and those who have "freely received" can and should be healing. Apostle means "sent". Every believer is "sent " everytime they go ANYWHERE. There are MANY hurting people they see every day. If you will listen the Holy Spirit will give you opportunity to minister to at least some of them. It really does depend on what you realize you have received. One can hold the million dollar lottery ticket and not collect if they do not know what they have received. It is no different with the truths of the Bible. Here is one.
Here is what you receive with the Acts 2:4 experience:


Romans 8:11
New King James Version (NKJV)


11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

The prayer language, tongues, is the initial evidence of the Acts 2:4 experience. It is an experience Jesus commands for all disciples.
 

biggandyy

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Let us allow one who is smarter than the lot of us tell us what Romans 8:11 REALLY means, Matthew Henry:
(I will reproduce the entire section, though lengthy, for the benefit of those with a faulty understanding of scripture)


10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

In these verses the apostle represents two more excellent benefits, which belong to true believers.

I. Life. The happiness is not barely a negative happiness, not to be condemned; but it is positive, it is an advancement to a life that will be the unspeakable happiness of the man (Romans 8:10,11): If Christ be in you. Observe, If the Spirit be in us, Christ is in us. He dwells in the heart by faith, Ephesians 3:17. Now we are here told what becomes of the bodies and souls of those in whom Christ is.

1. We cannot say but that the body is dead; it is a frail, mortal, dying body, and it will be dead shortly; it is a house of clay, whose foundation is in the dust. The life purchased and promised does not immortalize the body in its present state. It is dead, that is, it is appointed to die, it is under a sentence of death: as we say one that is condemned is a dead man. In the midst of life we are in death: be our bodies ever so strong, and healthful, and handsome, they are as good as dead (Hebrews 11:12), and this because of sin. It is sin that kills the body. This effect the first threatening has (Genesis 3:19): Dust thou art. Methinks, were there no other argument, love to our bodies should make us hate sin, because it is such an enemy to our bodies. The death even of the bodies of the saints is a remaining token of God's displeasure against sin.

2. But the spirit, the precious soul, that is life; it is now spiritually alive, nay, it is life. Grace in the soul is its new nature; the life of the saint lies in the soul, while the life of the sinner goes no further than the body. When the body dies, and returns to the dust, the spirit if life; not only living and immortal, but swallowed up of life. Death to the saints is but the freeing of the heaven-born spirit from the clog and load of this body, that it may be fit to partake of eternal life. When Abraham was dead, yet God was the God of Abraham, for even then his spirit was life, Matthew 22:31,32. See Psalms 49:15. And this because of righteousness. The righteousness of Christ imputed to them secures the soul, the better part, from death; the righteousness of Christ inherent in them, the renewed image of God upon the soul, preserves it, and, by God's ordination, at death elevates it, and improves it, and makes it meet to partake of the inheritance of the saints in light. The eternal life of the soul consists in the vision and fruition of God, and both assimilating, for which the soul is qualified by the righteousness of sanctification. I refer to Psalms 17:15, I will behold thy face in righteousness.

3. There is a life reserved too for the poor body at last: He shall also quicken your mortal bodies, Romans 8:11. The Lord is for the body; and though at death it is cast aside as a despised broken vessel, a vessel in which is no pleasure, yet God will have a desire to the work of his hands (Job 14:15), will remember his covenant with the dust, and will not lose a grain of it; but the body shall be reunited to the soul, and clothed with a glory agreeable to it. Vile bodies shall be newly fashioned, Philippians 3:21,1Co+15:42. Two great assurances of the resurrection of the body are mentioned:--

(1.) The resurrection of Christ: He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken. Christ rose as the head, and first-fruits, and forerunner of all the saints, 1 Corinthians 15:20. The body of Christ lay in the grave, under the sin of all the elect imputed, and broke through it. O grave, then, where is thy victory? It is in the virtue of Christ's resurrection that we shall rise.

(2.) The indwelling of the Spirit. The same Spirit that raiseth the soul now will raise the body shortly: By his Spirit that dwelleth in you. The bodies of the saints are the temples of the Holy Ghost, 1 Corinthians 3:16,6:19. Now, though these temples may be suffered for awhile to lie in ruins, yet they shall be rebuilt. The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, shall be repaired, whatever great mountains may be in the way. The Spirit, breathing upon dead and dry bones, will make them live, and the saints even in their flesh shall see God.

Hence the apostle by the way infers how much it is our duty to walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, Romans 8:12,13. Let not our life be after the wills and motions of the flesh. Two motives he mentions here:--

[1.] We are not debtors to the flesh, neither by relation, gratitude, nor any other bond or obligation. We owe no suit nor service to our carnal desires; we are indeed bound to clothe, and feed, and take care of the body, as a servant to the soul in the service of God, but no further. We are not debtors to it; the flesh never did us so much kindness as to oblige us to serve it. It is implied that we are debtors to Christ and to the Spirit: there we owe our all, all we have and all we can do, by a thousand bonds and obligations. Being delivered from so great a death by so great a ransom, we are deeply indebted to our deliverer. See 1 Corinthians 6:19,20.

[2.] Consider the consequences, what will be at the end of the way. Here are life and death, blessing and cursing, set before us. If you live after the flesh, you shall die; that is, die eternally. It is the pleasing, and serving, and gratifying, of the flesh, that are the ruin of souls; that is, the second death.

Dying indeed is the soul's dying: the death of the saints is but a sleep. But, on the other hand, You shall live, live and be happy to eternity; that is the true life: If you through the Spirit mortify the deeds of the body, subdue and keep under all fleshly lusts and affections, deny yourselves in the pleasing and humouring of the body, and this through the Spirit; we cannot do it without the Spirit working it in us, and the Spirit will not do it without our doing our endeavour. So that in a word we are put upon this dilemma, either to displease the body or destroy the soul.
I bold faced the important part for your easy understanding. Note also there is no place where physical healing is even hinted. Fact is, Paul is speaking of the physical body being rebuilt in Glory, not in sin and decay as we currently find ourselves.
 

lesjude

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BiggAndyy said:
Let us allow one who is smarter than the lot of us tell us what Romans 8:11 REALLY means, Matthew Henry:
(I will reproduce the entire section, though lengthy, for the benefit of those with a faulty understanding of scripture)



I bold faced the important part for your easy understanding. Note also there is no place where physical healing is even hinted. Fact is, Paul is speaking of the physical body being rebuilt in Glory, not in sin and decay as we currently find ourselves.
He did not have the Acts 2:4 experince therefore is not qualified to teach anything about the Bible Ephesians 4:11-16. Jesus would NEVER appoint a man to teach about the Bible without the Acts 2:4 experience He commands. In fact the Bible is written to born born again, water bapiized by emersion in Jesus name believers with the Acts 2:4 experience. The only exception to that is the parts that say these 3 things are commanded by Jesus, the apostles, and practiced in the book of Acts. I am NOT saying anything is necessary beyond Romans 10:9-10 for salvation but the other two are the first acts of obedience of a born again Christian. The Holy Spirit opens the scripture just as Jesus said He would by opening layers of truth. That truth NEVER contradicts previous Bible truth.
 

biggandyy

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Experience NEVER precedes doctrine. It is quite the opposite, our experience must be filtered THROUGH doctrine. Our hearts are, above all things, wicked and capable of the vilest of deceptions and false experiences.

I also find it quite entertaining that one would disqualify a giant in the faith as Matthew Henry on the grounds you imagine what he experienced or did not experience nearly 400 years ago. It's laughable actually.