Lunar, Shornaal, JeffhugesIn all reasoningWhat is your belief? How do you imagine the universe started? And where do you thing it is headed?
Lunar, shornaal, Jeffhuges
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I believe the universe have always existed and will always exist.I don't know if God (or several Gods) is involved but they did not create the universe, though they might have the power to mould it to suit their needs, for example creating life on earth.I don't openly believe in any God but if I ever found evidence of him I would believe, in fact I hope God exists because I want to believe.I would never believe without evidence as faith is not a virtue.
The bible says God created the heavens and the earth. One God. I think if you start reading the bible you will find it to be the true word of God. Ask God to reveal himself as you read it. You will see a miracle take place. May god bless at God speed.
In all honesty, I am not sure right now. I am currently working through trying to settle my doubts into something that is logically coherent and as likely to be true as anything that man can know in this world. If that includes the concept of God, then that's great. It is what I currently believe until I solve the dilemma. If it does not involve the concept of God, then so be it. I am interested in truth, not comfort. But that's my long answer just to say that right now, I don't know.From a Christian perspective, the universe started at the spoken word of God, and it is headed into some sort of new age where we will live happily ever after, essentially.If God does not exist, then the universe started from a singularity and gave rise to the Big Bang. The universe is headed to one of three places. Either the amount of gravity in the universe is enough to slow its expansion, in which case it will begin pulling itself back together and end in a "Big Crunch." Or, if the gravity is not enough, the universe will continue to expand until heat can no longer travel the inconceivable distances, and we will end in a "Big Freeze." Or, if the gravity is just right, the universe will stabilize, and eventually will go into complete entropy towards a "heat death." Either way though, I'm not really worried, since I sure won't be around to see any of them...
There is so much new science out there now that believes in a creator designer, it almost hard not to believe. To me its like breaking a Rolex watch on the ground into thousands of pieces and waiting for evolution to put it back together. The bible is a living word. If you pray and ask God to open it up to you, you will find it very addictive. What do you have to lose?
(crooner;56918)
There is so much new science out there now that believes in a creator designer, it almost hard not to believe. To me its like breaking a Rolex watch on the ground into thousands of pieces and waiting for evolution to put it back together. The bible is a living word. If you pray and ask God to open it up to you, you will find it very addictive. What do you have to lose?
Crooner is right Jeff. The bible is full of wisdom. There is nothing new under the sun. If you focus on Christ only and not men. You will not be disappointed.
There is so much new science out there now that believes in a creator designer, it almost hard not to believe. To me its like breaking a Rolex watch on the ground into thousands of pieces and waiting for evolution to put it back together. The bible is a living word. If you pray and ask God to open it up to you, you will find it very addictive. What do you have to lose?
Crooner is right Jeff. The bible is full of wisdom. There is nothing new under the sun. If you focus on Christ only and not men. You will not be disappointed.
(crooner;56918)
There is so much new science out there now that believes in a creator designer, it almost hard not to believe. To me its like breaking a Rolex watch on the ground into thousands of pieces and waiting for evolution to put it back together. The bible is a living word. If you pray and ask God to open it up to you, you will find it very addictive. What do you have to lose?
Unfortunately, the "science" you mention is nowhere near "new." My attempts on the other board about evolution have been an attempt to show that, although we have gotten a little bogged down on other details. However, you misunderstand my background. Up until about eight months ago, I was a very strong Christian who was very interested in apologetics and even was involved in some debates against evolutionists on the matter of creation vs. evolution. Unfortunately, much of what creationists say is untrue, whether intentionally so or as a result of misunderstanding. Your analogy of breaking a watch is a simple case of this - many misconstrue evolution as a product of "chance", which is actually the exact opposite of what evolution is. Natural selection is anything but random, "choosing" the fittest animals in order to cause genetic change over time. Not to mention that with a watch, we would not expect evolution to do anything to it. It is a non-living thing. Living things reproduce, and so it is inevitable that there will at least be some change over time, which creationists agree with. They just disagree that the changes keep going beyond the species level.As for reading the Word of God and praying - been there, done that, got the t-shirt. As I mentioned above, I have been a Christian all my life, and only as of recently began to doubt my faith. I read my Bible regularly, went to a Christian elementary school and high school, went to church every Sunday, and was very involved in church as well, primarily through playing the guitar on the worship team. For a while, reading my Bible was very "addictive," as you said. I felt like I was on fire for God. Now I feel only doubt and frustration that God refuses to answer my questions.(thesuperjag;56922)
Crooner is right Jeff. The bible is full of wisdom. There is nothing new under the sun. If you focus on Christ only and not men. You will not be disappointed.
Wisdom, yes. The Bible has much wisdom in it. Salvation, though, may be another matter. I have focused on Christ for all my life, and my doubts were of my own doing. I was not "focusing on men," as you say. I was only focusing on finding truth, and as I have dug deeper, I have become more disappointed in the faith which I so clung to. I have heard what you both have said repeatedly. I know all the "Christian answers," and have spouted them off to others as you have done to me. I have been there. But unfortunately, I have somehow been cursed with some unending drive to find truth. This search must involve evaluating my current beliefs to determine whether they are true, or else I am only deluding myself. I am open to the concept of God, and I truly do hope that my search ends me right where I began, in the comfort of Christianity. I just am not so sure anymore that it will.
There is so much new science out there now that believes in a creator designer, it almost hard not to believe. To me its like breaking a Rolex watch on the ground into thousands of pieces and waiting for evolution to put it back together. The bible is a living word. If you pray and ask God to open it up to you, you will find it very addictive. What do you have to lose?
Unfortunately, the "science" you mention is nowhere near "new." My attempts on the other board about evolution have been an attempt to show that, although we have gotten a little bogged down on other details. However, you misunderstand my background. Up until about eight months ago, I was a very strong Christian who was very interested in apologetics and even was involved in some debates against evolutionists on the matter of creation vs. evolution. Unfortunately, much of what creationists say is untrue, whether intentionally so or as a result of misunderstanding. Your analogy of breaking a watch is a simple case of this - many misconstrue evolution as a product of "chance", which is actually the exact opposite of what evolution is. Natural selection is anything but random, "choosing" the fittest animals in order to cause genetic change over time. Not to mention that with a watch, we would not expect evolution to do anything to it. It is a non-living thing. Living things reproduce, and so it is inevitable that there will at least be some change over time, which creationists agree with. They just disagree that the changes keep going beyond the species level.As for reading the Word of God and praying - been there, done that, got the t-shirt. As I mentioned above, I have been a Christian all my life, and only as of recently began to doubt my faith. I read my Bible regularly, went to a Christian elementary school and high school, went to church every Sunday, and was very involved in church as well, primarily through playing the guitar on the worship team. For a while, reading my Bible was very "addictive," as you said. I felt like I was on fire for God. Now I feel only doubt and frustration that God refuses to answer my questions.(thesuperjag;56922)
Crooner is right Jeff. The bible is full of wisdom. There is nothing new under the sun. If you focus on Christ only and not men. You will not be disappointed.
Wisdom, yes. The Bible has much wisdom in it. Salvation, though, may be another matter. I have focused on Christ for all my life, and my doubts were of my own doing. I was not "focusing on men," as you say. I was only focusing on finding truth, and as I have dug deeper, I have become more disappointed in the faith which I so clung to. I have heard what you both have said repeatedly. I know all the "Christian answers," and have spouted them off to others as you have done to me. I have been there. But unfortunately, I have somehow been cursed with some unending drive to find truth. This search must involve evaluating my current beliefs to determine whether they are true, or else I am only deluding myself. I am open to the concept of God, and I truly do hope that my search ends me right where I began, in the comfort of Christianity. I just am not so sure anymore that it will.
(jeffhughes;56923)
(thesuperjag;56922)
Crooner is right Jeff. The bible is full of wisdom. There is nothing new under the sun. If you focus on Christ only and not men. You will not be disappointed.
Wisdom, yes. The Bible has much wisdom in it. Salvation, though, may be another matter. I have focused on Christ for all my life, and my doubts were of my own doing. I was not "focusing on men," as you say. I was only focusing on finding truth, and as I have dug deeper, I have become more disappointed in the faith which I so clung to. I have heard what you both have said repeatedly. I know all the "Christian answers," and have spouted them off to others as you have done to me. I have been there. But unfortunately, I have somehow been cursed with some unending drive to find truth. This search must involve evaluating my current beliefs to determine whether they are true, or else I am only deluding myself. I am open to the concept of God, and I truly do hope that my search ends me right where I began, in the comfort of Christianity. I just am not so sure anymore that it will.I'm sorry that you feel that way, but you are making assumption that I and Kriss (and others) know everything, when in reality we don't. I can safely admit that. Are we stronger than Him? (I Corinthians 10:22) Without faith, it is impossible to please Him. (Hebrews 11:6) Can God lie? (Numbers 23:19) Can God change? (Hebrews 13:8)I love you Jeff and I will always love you. But know that there is a Person who loves you more than anybody put together combined.
(thesuperjag;56922)
Crooner is right Jeff. The bible is full of wisdom. There is nothing new under the sun. If you focus on Christ only and not men. You will not be disappointed.
Wisdom, yes. The Bible has much wisdom in it. Salvation, though, may be another matter. I have focused on Christ for all my life, and my doubts were of my own doing. I was not "focusing on men," as you say. I was only focusing on finding truth, and as I have dug deeper, I have become more disappointed in the faith which I so clung to. I have heard what you both have said repeatedly. I know all the "Christian answers," and have spouted them off to others as you have done to me. I have been there. But unfortunately, I have somehow been cursed with some unending drive to find truth. This search must involve evaluating my current beliefs to determine whether they are true, or else I am only deluding myself. I am open to the concept of God, and I truly do hope that my search ends me right where I began, in the comfort of Christianity. I just am not so sure anymore that it will.I'm sorry that you feel that way, but you are making assumption that I and Kriss (and others) know everything, when in reality we don't. I can safely admit that. Are we stronger than Him? (I Corinthians 10:22) Without faith, it is impossible to please Him. (Hebrews 11:6) Can God lie? (Numbers 23:19) Can God change? (Hebrews 13:8)I love you Jeff and I will always love you. But know that there is a Person who loves you more than anybody put together combined.
Your analogy of breaking a watch is a simple case of this - many misconstrue evolution as a product of "chance", which is actually the exact opposite of what evolution is. Natural selection is anything but random, "choosing" the fittest animals in order to cause genetic change over time. Not to mention that with a watch, we would not expect evolution to do anything to it. It is a non-living thing.
There's a serious problem with that logic. At some point something would have evolved from nothing; of which there wasn't a choice or selection. If you want to argue that the very first organism was a choice, then the choice would either be random chance or there was a controlling force that made the choice.
There's a serious problem with that logic. At some point something would have evolved from nothing; of which there wasn't a choice or selection. If you want to argue that the very first organism was a choice, then the choice would either be random chance or there was a controlling force that made the choice.
(Denver;56928)
There's a serious problem with that logic. At some point something would have evolved from nothing; of which there wasn't a choice or selection. If you want to argue that the very first organism was a choice, then the choice would either be random chance or there was a controlling force that made the choice.
Well, I was trying to explain the process of natural selection, not of abiogenesis, which really is a separate topic altogether. You could conceivably accept that some "higher power" or God created the first organism, and then the processes of natural selection took over. Evolution is the explanation of what happens once there are organisms, regardless of how they got there. But at any rate, I see what you are saying.However, we know that atoms and molecules arrange themselves by forming stable states. We can observe this, just as we see water molecules form into a patterned structure when it is frozen. Whenever possible, atoms and molecules form states that will expend less energy. So while there will be a point in time before the "first organism," we can go even further back in time to a simpler state composed of DNA (or more likely, RNA to begin with). And even before, that we can go to a simple self-replicating molecule, of which there are many candidates for the one that gave rise to life. Scientists have hypothesized the intermediate stages, and all that is necessary is for atoms to form into a more stable state (which we already know they do) and form a self-replicating molecule (which we know exist). Of course, this is subject to more interpretation, as we can't go back in time and see exactly what happened, but scientists have at least come up with plausible solutions to how life may have arisen. You're right that it would be a chance process, but at the same time it would still be guided by the interactions between atoms and molecules that we see.
There's a serious problem with that logic. At some point something would have evolved from nothing; of which there wasn't a choice or selection. If you want to argue that the very first organism was a choice, then the choice would either be random chance or there was a controlling force that made the choice.
Well, I was trying to explain the process of natural selection, not of abiogenesis, which really is a separate topic altogether. You could conceivably accept that some "higher power" or God created the first organism, and then the processes of natural selection took over. Evolution is the explanation of what happens once there are organisms, regardless of how they got there. But at any rate, I see what you are saying.However, we know that atoms and molecules arrange themselves by forming stable states. We can observe this, just as we see water molecules form into a patterned structure when it is frozen. Whenever possible, atoms and molecules form states that will expend less energy. So while there will be a point in time before the "first organism," we can go even further back in time to a simpler state composed of DNA (or more likely, RNA to begin with). And even before, that we can go to a simple self-replicating molecule, of which there are many candidates for the one that gave rise to life. Scientists have hypothesized the intermediate stages, and all that is necessary is for atoms to form into a more stable state (which we already know they do) and form a self-replicating molecule (which we know exist). Of course, this is subject to more interpretation, as we can't go back in time and see exactly what happened, but scientists have at least come up with plausible solutions to how life may have arisen. You're right that it would be a chance process, but at the same time it would still be guided by the interactions between atoms and molecules that we see.
If God could have always existed then so could life.Also I don't buy the bit that goat farmers from thousands of years ago knew more about the world then than we do today.I agree that the bible contains words of wisdom but so does the egyptian scriptures that predate the bible and I don't see you praising Horus for that.The bible contains good parts (thou shalt not kill) and bad parts (gays are creepy, throw rocks at them).None of this stops the bible from being a good book with many words of wisdom but there is some oddball stuff in there that could be dangerous if taken literally (see crusades, witch hunts and Fred Phelps for a few examples).
And sense Gods people were here first where do you think any knowledge they had came from? let me enlighten you it came from Cain who rebelled agaoinst God and twisted the knowledge he had. A non argument
(kriss;56946)
And sense Gods people were here first where do you think any knowledge they had came from? let me enlighten you it came from Cain who rebelled agaoinst God and twisted the knowledge he had. A non argument
Or we could use logic, since there is no proof Cain ever existed. Until people provide proof to their words or confess they're only theories I'll regard them as fairytales.I live my life basing my judment on fact rather than faith, so far it has worked and many times even saves my life.
And sense Gods people were here first where do you think any knowledge they had came from? let me enlighten you it came from Cain who rebelled agaoinst God and twisted the knowledge he had. A non argument
Or we could use logic, since there is no proof Cain ever existed. Until people provide proof to their words or confess they're only theories I'll regard them as fairytales.I live my life basing my judment on fact rather than faith, so far it has worked and many times even saves my life.
(Shornaal;56947)
(Kriss;56946)
And sense Gods people were here first where do you think any knowledge they had came from? let me enlighten you it came from Cain who rebelled agaoinst God and twisted the knowledge he had. A non argument
Or we could use logic, since there is no proof Cain ever existed.Until people provide proof to their words or confess they're only theories I'll regard them as fairytales.I live my life basing my judment on fact rather than faith, so far it has worked and many times even saves my life.If Cain never existed, how in the world can we lie? For us to be a liar, there has to be a first person to lie. So can God lie?
(Kriss;56946)
And sense Gods people were here first where do you think any knowledge they had came from? let me enlighten you it came from Cain who rebelled agaoinst God and twisted the knowledge he had. A non argument
Or we could use logic, since there is no proof Cain ever existed.Until people provide proof to their words or confess they're only theories I'll regard them as fairytales.I live my life basing my judment on fact rather than faith, so far it has worked and many times even saves my life.If Cain never existed, how in the world can we lie? For us to be a liar, there has to be a first person to lie. So can God lie?
(thesuperjag;56948)
If Cain never existed, how in the world can we lie? For us to be a liar, there has to be a first person to lie. So can God lie?
Whats saying that person was Cain? Even apes can lie, they promise food for sex and once they're finished they run off with the food.Also on God lying: since he contradicts himself in the bible some of his words must be lies, or he just forgets what he already wrote...
If Cain never existed, how in the world can we lie? For us to be a liar, there has to be a first person to lie. So can God lie?
Whats saying that person was Cain? Even apes can lie, they promise food for sex and once they're finished they run off with the food.Also on God lying: since he contradicts himself in the bible some of his words must be lies, or he just forgets what he already wrote...
(Shornaal;56949)
(thesuperjag;56948)
If Cain never existed, how in the world can we lie? For us to be a liar, there has to be a first person to lie. So can God lie?
Whats saying that person was Cain? Even apes can lie, they promise food for sex and once they're finished they run off with the food.Also on God lying: since he contradicts himself in the bible some of his words must be lies, or he just forgets what he already wrote...Our genealogy aren't monkeys. And no, once again. He does not contradict His own words. Each words has more than one meaning.II Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(thesuperjag;56948)
If Cain never existed, how in the world can we lie? For us to be a liar, there has to be a first person to lie. So can God lie?
Whats saying that person was Cain? Even apes can lie, they promise food for sex and once they're finished they run off with the food.Also on God lying: since he contradicts himself in the bible some of his words must be lies, or he just forgets what he already wrote...Our genealogy aren't monkeys. And no, once again. He does not contradict His own words. Each words has more than one meaning.II Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(thesuperjag;56950)
Our genealogy aren't monkeys. And no, once again. He does not contradict His own words. Each words has more than one meaning.II Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
So we should accept all people but still stone gays?And "thou shalt not kill" and the bit about hanging (or was it stoning?) women who speak in Gods house, how does that work?
Our genealogy aren't monkeys. And no, once again. He does not contradict His own words. Each words has more than one meaning.II Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
So we should accept all people but still stone gays?And "thou shalt not kill" and the bit about hanging (or was it stoning?) women who speak in Gods house, how does that work?
(Shornaal;56951)
(thesuperjag;56950)
Our genealogy aren't monkeys. And no, once again. He does not contradict His own words. Each words has more than one meaning.II Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
So we should accept all people but still stone gays?And "thou shalt not kill" and the bit about hanging (or was it stoning?) women who speak in Gods house, how does that work?First of all, "thou shalt not kill" does not mean you can't kill in every situation. It means "thou shalt not murder" It means plan to kill / lie in wait. In short it means to plan to take away one's life.Do I love everybody? Yes. It's been written all over my face. But do I love sin? No! Should I support someone for living in sin? No! Will I still be telling the Truth in Love? Yes! Will I stop warning people of sin? No!Should I stone someone for committing a sin? No! Why?Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(thesuperjag;56950)
Our genealogy aren't monkeys. And no, once again. He does not contradict His own words. Each words has more than one meaning.II Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
So we should accept all people but still stone gays?And "thou shalt not kill" and the bit about hanging (or was it stoning?) women who speak in Gods house, how does that work?First of all, "thou shalt not kill" does not mean you can't kill in every situation. It means "thou shalt not murder" It means plan to kill / lie in wait. In short it means to plan to take away one's life.Do I love everybody? Yes. It's been written all over my face. But do I love sin? No! Should I support someone for living in sin? No! Will I still be telling the Truth in Love? Yes! Will I stop warning people of sin? No!Should I stone someone for committing a sin? No! Why?Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(thesuperjag;56954)
First of all, "thou shalt not kill" does not mean you can't kill in every situation. It means "thou shalt not murder" It means plan to kill / lie in wait. In short it means to plan to take away one's life.Do I love everybody? Yes. It's been written all over my face. But do I love sin? No! Should I support someone for living in sin? No! Will I still be telling the Truth in Love? Yes! Will I stop warning people of sin? No!Should I stone someone for committing a sin? No! Why?Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Guess I'll just have to choose my homosexual friends before God in that case, they seem to be much nicer guys and wouldn't kill firstborn egyptians.
First of all, "thou shalt not kill" does not mean you can't kill in every situation. It means "thou shalt not murder" It means plan to kill / lie in wait. In short it means to plan to take away one's life.Do I love everybody? Yes. It's been written all over my face. But do I love sin? No! Should I support someone for living in sin? No! Will I still be telling the Truth in Love? Yes! Will I stop warning people of sin? No!Should I stone someone for committing a sin? No! Why?Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Guess I'll just have to choose my homosexual friends before God in that case, they seem to be much nicer guys and wouldn't kill firstborn egyptians.
(Shornaal;56955)
(thesuperjag;56954)
First of all, "thou shalt not kill" does not mean you can't kill in every situation. It means "thou shalt not murder" It means plan to kill / lie in wait. In short it means to plan to take away one's life.Do I love everybody? Yes. It's been written all over my face. But do I love sin? No! Should I support someone for living in sin? No! Will I still be telling the Truth in Love? Yes! Will I stop warning people of sin? No!Should I stone someone for committing a sin? No! Why?Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Guess I'll just have to choose my homosexual friends before God in that case, they seem to be much nicer guys and wouldn't kill firstborn egyptians.Which is unnatural and wrong...and very gross. They may be nice, but they will kill as many souls as they can in another way, which is not physical...if one's soul believe in it.I really don't understand why men chose the backside...what's great in supporting sin...
(thesuperjag;56954)
First of all, "thou shalt not kill" does not mean you can't kill in every situation. It means "thou shalt not murder" It means plan to kill / lie in wait. In short it means to plan to take away one's life.Do I love everybody? Yes. It's been written all over my face. But do I love sin? No! Should I support someone for living in sin? No! Will I still be telling the Truth in Love? Yes! Will I stop warning people of sin? No!Should I stone someone for committing a sin? No! Why?Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Guess I'll just have to choose my homosexual friends before God in that case, they seem to be much nicer guys and wouldn't kill firstborn egyptians.Which is unnatural and wrong...and very gross. They may be nice, but they will kill as many souls as they can in another way, which is not physical...if one's soul believe in it.I really don't understand why men chose the backside...what's great in supporting sin...
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