Major contradiction: John 2 versus Matthew 4

[friend of]

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the Baptist?

Seeing things like this is really starting to scare me.

 

[O'Darby]

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the Baptist?

Seeing things like this is really starting to scare me.

In what way does it scare you? It would only concern me if I thought all the Gospels were supposed to be historically accurate newspaper accounts of what took place. They obviously weren't. The Gospel writers all had target audiences and theological agendas. They all worked from different eyewitness accounts and oral traditions. It was perfectly acceptable in ancient times to alter and shape historical events to fit the author's purposes. You can certainly find far-fetched attempts to harmonize everything at sites like Answers In Genesis - hey, Jesus cleansed the Temple twice, once early in His ministry and once at the end! - but the more sane approach is to accept that the Gospels don't have to mesh exactly in order to convey their truths.

 

[friend of]

It would only concern me if I thought all the Gospels were supposed to be historically accurate newspaper accounts of what took place. They obviously weren't.

Why wouldn't the gospel writers want to depict information as accurately as possible?

 

[Behold]

The Gospel writers all had target audiences and theological agendas.

You posted another unprovable set of lies

You are trying to create doubt regarding the word of God, and that is the Devil's Work.

You know, @O'Darby i didnt think you hated the bible, but, as you feel obligated to lie about it, then i guess you are proving more then i had originally suspected.

Its always interesting to discover this "type" of forum member.
As these are not that common...
But they certainly are dedicated to their ministry.

 

[friend of]

You posted another unprovable set of lies

You are trying to create doubt regarding the word of God, and that is the Devil's Work.

You know, @O'Darby i didnt think you hated the bible, but, as you feel obligated to lie about it, then i guess you are proving more then i had originally suspected.

Its always interesting to discover this "type" of forum member.
As these are not that common...
But they certainly are dedicated to their ministry.

Can you make sense of my genuine misunderstanding about the chapters i mentioned?

 

[MatthewG]

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the Baptist?

Seeing things like this is really starting to scare me.

John is the only Gospel that doesn’t include the account which you are speaking of, it includes John and the Baptism, but not the wilderness. Perhaps John, had read and seen the Letters of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and perhaps did not see a need to comment on that tidbit which Jesus had gone through with the struggle with the temptation which were being seen by the accuser, refuting him by what the Father had taught him, and told him to say. Jesus was truly a selfless person.

 

[Behold]

Can you make sense of my genuine misunderstanding about the chapters i mentioned?

Hello,

thank you for reaching out..


1.) Jesus's ministry begin when He was given the assignment in Heaven .
Jesus said he was born for the cause of the Cross, and because "I and my Father are one", then Jesus pre-incarnate would have known what was to come..

2.) Then we see Jesus at 12 Yrs old.. "teaching in the Temple', and told His mother.... that He must be about His "Father's business"..

He was in the Ministry right there, already, on earth.

3.) And then you have Matthew 4:17, and we see the grown Yeshua, begin to "preach".

So each of these is "when Jesus knew and started His ministry"..

Now...Let me show you this..

Lets say that God decides that you are to be like me.. an Evangelist, as your core ministry. "call".

Well, God will CALL you into that Ministry, and then He will enable you for this Ministry....a good while before you stand up in front of a Church.
YET, you are "In The Ministry" all that time.

 

[friend of]

John is the only Gospel that doesn’t include the account which you are speaking of, it includes John and the Baptism, but not the wilderness. Perhaps John, had read and seen the Letters of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and perhaps did not see a need to comment on that tidbit which Jesus had gone through with the struggle with the temptation which were being seen by the accuser, refuting him by what the Father had taught him, and told him to say. Jesus was truly a selfless person.

But then it would infer that Jesus had been through the wilderness 40 days and nights BEFORE He did the water to wine miracle. We know this cannot be the case.

 

[MatthewG]

But then it would infer that Jesus had been through the wilderness 40 days and nights BEFORE He did the water to wine miracle. We know this cannot be the case.

Friend of, I am just sharing. Perhaps that was the case. Who knows. Hope you receive and find and answer.

 

[Azim]

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the Baptist?

Seeing things like this is really starting to scare me.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke all mention Jesus going into the wilderness, only John skips it. Like wise, John is the only gospel to mention Jesus' miracle of turning water into wine. You have to keep in mind, Jesus' ministry spanned around three years. So while reading the gospels, there is a lot of time jumping going on between certain events.

 

[O'Darby]

Why wouldn't the gospel writers want to depict information as accurately as possible?

Because that wasn't their objective. Each had a target audience and agenda. Those were the driving factors, not exact historical accuracy. This is pretty much Bible Scholarship 101. Do some reading. If you want to see what you're seeing as "problems" and "scare" yourself, you'll be well on your way to atheism.

 

[amadeus]

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the Baptist?

Seeing things like this is really starting to scare me.

What is God's overall plan for mankind? What is God's plan for you?
How is man to attain anything good or approach God more closely? How are you to attain anything good or approach God more closely?

Does it not all start with faith and is it not by faith each of is to continue until we are finished here?

Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

And then where lies the finish of it?

Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;..

And what is faith?

Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

@friend of
What is it you are looking for in those verses you read here? Exact history according to men and/or chronologically correct events?

Consider Jesus' little discussion with Thomas:

Joh 20:24	But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25	The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Joh 20:26	And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27	Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28	And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29	Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

@friend of What was God's purpose in having men write those verses? Is it possible God wanted to raise doubts in the minds of men as Thomas had doubts before he saw Jesus with his own physical eyes? What is a blind man able to see?

 

[friend of]

What is it you are looking for in those verses you read here? Exact history according to men and/or chronologically correct events?

Yes. But I know Faith is more important than understanding everything. Thank you for your post.

 

[friend of]

Because that wasn't their objective. Each had a target audience and agenda. Those were the driving factors, not exact historical accuracy. This is pretty much Bible Scholarship 101. Do some reading. If you want to see what you're seeing as "problems" and "scare" yourself, you'll be well on your way to atheism.

I don't want to convert to atheism. I love Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the Baptist?

Seeing things like this is really starting to scare me.

No worries, my friend. I don't think it is a contradiction at all but a matter of how different people tell a story and what they focus on.

If I were to tell the story of my life, I might say I went to college after graduating from high school, bought a house after my daughter was born or that my son was born after my daughter. This is all true. However, none of these things happened immediately after the event that preceded it. After hearing me tell my life story, you might over hear me talking to a friend about the horrible summer after high school when my first love broke up with me months before I went off to college.

I am not contradicting myself. For different reasons and purposes, I am telling a story, glossing over some details in the first case, delving into a more painful period in the 2nd case. IMO, Matthew detailed what Jesus did immediately after being baptized - go into the desert. It is still true that he went to the wedding after being baptized - even if he did not immediately go to the wedding. After is after. A contradiction would be if one account said he went BEFORE.

In our society, we have a different perception of time and story telling than the ancients. I recall a sermon on the old testament. (Joseph, perhaps?) That many years passed between one verse and the next. A casual reader would not catch it. All glory to God!

 

[Wrangler]

Why wouldn't the gospel writers want to depict information as accurately as possible?

Purpose. I am a big picture thinker. A coworker too easily gets lost in the weeds.

Everything he says is accurate, just not necessarily relevant to the bigger conversation.

Hope this helps.

 

[Stumpmaster]

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the Baptist?

Seeing things like this is really starting to scare me.

Here is a link and some charts to help you understand why the different authors skipped different facts and how they otherwise agree: Gospel Harmony

The Gospels: A Quick Comparison​

	Mark	Matthew	Luke	John
Author	A second generation Christian, possibly a follower of Peter	An unknown Jewish Christian, traditionally the Apostle Matthew	A Gentile Christian, traditionally Luke the physician and Paul's traveling companion	The "beloved disciple" the Apostle John
Date Written	65-70 CE	75-80 CE	80-85 CE	90-110 CE
Who is Jesus?	Healer, Miracle Worker, Teacher, Misunderstood by those closest to Him	Promised Messiah of Jewish people, greatest prophet, teacher of the "new law" calling people to be faithful of the Old Testament covenant with God	Merciful, Compassionate, Prayerful teacher with special concern for women, the poor, and non-Jews (Gentiles)	Noble, Powerful divine--fully in control of His destiny
Author's Community	A Gentile Christian community in Rome undergoing persecution	A Jewish Christian community	Written to "Theophilus"	Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans
Historical Context	The Romans subdue armed Jewish rebellions. Christians experiencing persecution in Rome	Written after Romans had destroyed all of Jerusalem	Written when the persecution of Jews and Christians was intensifying	Jewish leaders banned Christians from the synagogues
Author's Location	Rome	Most likely Antioch of Syria	Possibly Rome or Caesarea	Probably written in Ephesus

 

[RedFan]

Can you make sense of my genuine misunderstanding about the chapters i mentioned?

John 2 says that Jesus had disciples with him at the Cana wedding, and that the water-into-wine miracle was Jesus's first, after which his disciples "believed in him" (John 2:11). It's nice that John picks up on the fact that one need not see a miracle before becoming a disciple.

Matt. 4 says that Jesus recruited Peter and Andrew, John and James some time after (we don't know how long after) his 40-day wilderness sojourn, occurring after his baptism -- but whether other disciples started following Jesus prior to Peter, Andrew, John and James, we are not told. If there were others prior, it is not impossible that they could have accompanied him to Cana.

Matthew never says anything about the Cana wedding. No mention by John of the wilderness trip either. Both writers could be correct.

Or neither.

 

[friend of]

John 2 says that Jesus had disciples with him at the Cana wedding, and that the water-into-wine miracle was Jesus's first, after which his disciples "believed in him" (John 2:11). It's nice that John picks up on the fact that one need not see a miracle before becoming a disciple.

Matt. 4 says that Jesus recruited Peter and Andrew, John and James some time after (we don't know how long after) his 40-day wilderness sojourn, occurring after his baptism -- but whether other disciples started following Jesus prior to Peter, Andrew, John and James, we are not told. If there were others prior, it is not impossible that they could have accompanied him to Cana.

Matthew never says anything about the Cana wedding. No mention by John of the wilderness trip either. Both writers could be correct.

Or neither.

Thank you. much appreciated and God bless

 

[BlessedPeace]

In John 1 Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In John 2 however, it shows Jesus attending the wedding at Galilie with his followers apparently. where he makes all that wine form water. He also says that His time has not yet come in response to His mother, but apparently he had some disciples with Him already, meaning His ministry was underway. But in Matthew 4 after Jesus was baptized it says He went into the wilderness to be tempted 40 days before commencing His ministry. So which is it? Where did Jesus go after being baptized by John the

Baptist?

Seeing things like this is really starting to scare me.

Understandable.

We can never forget the Bible is man made under the auspices it was God inspired.

There are many contradictions in the Bible. The OT also.