StanJ said:
Now you quote an actual verse which you probably should have done originally, but as I quoted v3 and you now quote v5 I'll agree that is what Jesus ALSO said, so now that we've clarified what verse you are referring to, how exactly does being a Christian not qualify someone as being born again in the vernacular of the NT?
This is all you were able to address out of your long post in #55?
You like making long assertions, but provide NO support for them or they are equivocal at best. Clearly the one obfuscating is you.
I've never said that being a Christian excluded someone from being born again. What I actually said was that the people of the Way, the followers or disciples of Jesus Christ came to be called Christians. The world also calls Jehovah's witnesses Christians, and calls Mormons Christians, and just about anyone that mentions the name of Christ, but being called a Christian doesn't mean that the person is born again, nor does professing to be born again. Its all about the relationship with God through the person of His Son. My software may be defective, but I only find the word "Christian" used 3 times in scripture and only in reference to disciples but never specifically to those who are born again. Perhaps this is why some believe that giving assent to the person of God in His Son means that they've been born again, but this would make someone like Josephus a Christian in spite of the disinterest in Christianity expressed in his writing.
The largest denomination on earth meets the biblical standard of Christianity (confession that Jesus is the Son of God and belief that He is risen from the dead), yet reformed denominations would not generally consider it truly Christian because of its nonbiblical doctrines and traditions. I however believe that the righteous will do what is righteous and that the wicked will do what is wicked; Jesus was pretty clear with His analogies of fruit bearing trees and I've observed many professing born again believers do wicked things, though the majority that I've met appeared to have been genuine in their faith and "fruit bearing" in their sanctification.
Now in the way of personal testimony, I was dedicated to God by my mother (who was a devoted Catholic and member of the "Mary" cult, and probably because she shared the name) and oddly enough, I believed that Jesus is the Son of God and spoke nothing but truth in my earliest memories of attending a Catholic church. I prayed to Him and actually had prayers answered in seemingly miraculous ways when I was still a boy and some would say that this meant that I had been born again, but I remember being born again distinctly as an adult and at the age of 39.
From God's perspective, I was His my entire life, but my mind wasn't opened to the scripture until I heard, understood, and received the gospel at the age of 39. I had a relationship with Jesus all my life though at times it wasn't good on my part, yet some theologies insist that this isn't possible. When I was young I attempted to follow Jesus in the power of my flesh and I know without a doubt in my mind that the Spirit of God came upon me under certain circumstances (such as coming to the defense of friends), yet I also know that I was as guilty of sin as the next boy, youth, young man, adult, and that my failings only increased with time, until I was 39 and believing myself condemned, actually heard the gospel, had it explained to me, and prayed with a friend to receive the Holy Spirit.
My experience doesn't conform with most theologies that I've heard from the denominations, yet it is what it is and I find confirmation of every bit of my life in the Word of God. I know from the testimonies of other saints that my experience is not unique, but was I less a Christian when I served God in the flesh and hadn't yet received Him?
What I did say is that I'd rather not be called a Christian at times, because the word has been given too broad a definition by the world (and those of the world make use of the term to classify us in their minds and behave accordingly,) and many professing Christians that I've encountered on this and other web sites present in their writing a spirit which is not representative of Christ, nor obedient to the royal commandment. However, it is not my responsibility to determine who is and who isn't a Christian, nor does that task belong to anyone but Christ. All any of us can do is use what discernment God has given (not what we have gained by our own effort) to assess the "fruit" on display in the lives of those who name The Name, and seek to be obedient to the exhortation from the Apostle Paul:
Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Admittedly this is difficult if not impossible for men, but with God all things are possible.
