Mark of the Beast or Mark of Yah?

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dragonfly

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I see the other thread called 'Mark of the Beast', where the discussion is well advanced, and many opinions have been put forward. This thread is offered to all you eschatologists who find time to read the following link, and discuss it.

The full work is 2,500 pages long, so I suggest the Summation (top left under Index) is a good way to get the overview.

http://markofthebeastormarkofyah.blogspot.co.uk/

For some, these ideas will be new, but my toe-dipping in the other thread indicates they won't be new to you all.


Happy reading and discussing. I want to read more of the full work before I make any comments. ^_^
 

Axehead

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In summary, the mark of the beast is his image, his name/character placed upon his followers. Just as believers in YHWH are marked/sealed with His Name & will be formed into His Image. The first choice man had to make was between the tree of Life or the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This will be the last choice man must face as well.

By allowing Scripture to define what the mark of YHWH is and what the mark of the beast is, and by following the facts through history one can see that there has only been two choices all along. Salvation by grace through faith in Messiah Yahshua or salvation by 'works' or 'knowledge' that must be attained by graduations after being initiated.


Hi Dragonfly,

This resonates with me because we are either conformed to the image of Christ (fruit of the Spirit) or the image of Satan (works of the flesh). Thus we will have the mark of God on us (renewed mind) or the mark of Satan (corrupt and evil mind). I too, have never believed the Mark of the Beast started and ended in Revelation. I see it throughout scriptures beginning in Genesis.

This looks like it will be a good read.

Axehead
 

dragonfly

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This looks like it will be a good read.
It does. I'm looking forward to checking all the scriptures he brings to bear, and seeing if there are more to back those up.

Over the next week, I hope to read the first three chapters, and come back with some thoughts on Chapter 1.
 

bytheway

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1 Samuel 5:4. Everyone is born with the "mark". Samuel gives us a picture of what will be in this verse by describing the broken parts of the Idol dagon. You can't do (hands) what you haven't thought about (head). When Jesus teaches Kingdom in Matt.5:29 He's obviously not saying to mutilate the body, rather lay the axe to the root of the tree. Cut off by choosing properly, thereby cleansing the soul which by the way is the end of our faith, the saving our soul....1Peter 1:9. As the renovation of the soul takes place throughout this life, we should devote our efforts towards learning to live in the now and less chasing vague future events.
 

kjhughes

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<<Removed>> > Seek First Your Own Salvation, Think Not of Outwardly Things of Evil... Evil Has Lost Its Grip on The Redeemed
7/7/05 From Jesus The Christ, Our Lord and Savior - A Letter Given to Timothy, For Craig, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

Question asked by Timothy, for Craig: Lord, what is the mark of the beast, as written in the book of Revelation in the Bible?


[Jesus The Christ answered] Oh Craig, why ask of your Father such things?... Instead, ask of yourself what marks have you taken. Are you clean? Where does your heart lie? With men or your Salvation? In you, I am well pleased and will be. In you, I see concern for all who dwell in need and lack. Tell them who is, and was, and will be the fulfillment they seek.

You ask of Me things that are not yet, but will be, and have already begun... I shall answer you. The mark, this mark of the beast, is this: It is a device of men, created by man, to save those who are lost so they may be found. The evil one will require this chip, to be implanted under the skin of the right hand or in their foreheads. Its production has commenced; its implantation has already begun. He shall use that, which was conceived in good, for evil and control, so no one may buy or sell unless they have accepted this device and worshipped his image.
What you seek, of the end of days, have I already given to My servant, John, written in the book, called Revelation. I now also give it to Timothy, your brother, so all those who have not read that which was given to a man who was, and is, My apostle, may hear from a man who I also call My apostle in this day and age, and ages to come.
What you have conceived of, and that which you have heard from My servant, Van Impe, is true, for modern man’s glory is in his creations... Oh does he revel in them... They are his undoing. In man’s prideful arrogance has he opened the way to the man of perdition to rule over him, with that by which he has created.





Why, oh men of the earth, do you make shackles and cast them about your own feet?...

You have become a slave of your own evil desires...



Turn to He, who holds all the keys and in whom all find freedom.


Amen.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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I found the author has no concept of the word "summary"

I read his 14 page "summation" and was unable to spot the summation.

To read the complete 2500 pages would fraction his theory even farther.

If anyone can give me insight I am all ears.
 

dragonfly

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Hi Arnie,

I'm working on it. I began the full chapter 1, and got side-tracked into the supporting section which explained that the Hebrew word we often read translated as 'faith', is actually truth. It was interesting, but took time away from the other reading. I do genuinely intend to make my way through the whole study...
 

revturmoil

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The mark of the beast is very likely the zebiba or 'raisin.' It is the result of a fanatical Muslim's head repeatedly hitting the mat.

666 actually means "multitudes of a man!"

That man is the false prophet Muhammad! The multitudes are his followers who even today commit "the abominations of the earth!"
 

dragonfly

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Hi kaoticprofit,

I think if you read the material in the link in the opening post, you will find many more definitions of 666 in the Bible.
 

dragonfly

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Hi Kaoticprofit,

Are you aware that the whole world has been divided into ten parts already? This is what the North American Union is about. The Treaty was signed back in the 1980s. The Union has been under construction ever since.

I am not following the detail of the other nine parts, but they will appear in due course, I believe.
 

revturmoil

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Hi Kaoticprofit,

Are you aware that the whole world has been divided into ten parts already? This is what the North American Union is about. The Treaty was signed back in the 1980s. The Union has been under construction ever since.

I am not following the detail of the other nine parts, but they will appear in due course, I believe.

The world has not been divided into ten parts. That's only a pipe dream!

What makes you think that any country, let alone the entire world, would relinquish it's political authority to a dictator? And with what military would he do this with?
And where are the scriptures to support it? And where are the scriptures that support a one world religion and one world government?

Lets see. It started with the League of Nations and Roosevelts New World Order. Then it went to the UN. The it went to the EU. Now it's the world divided into ten parts. Where does it all stop!
 

dragonfly

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Hi Kaoticprofit,

First I need to say that I started this thread to learn more than I know, and I have barely begun the reading I set myself. That aside, I will indicate some of what I know in this reply.

What makes you think that any country, let alone the entire world, would relinquish it's political authority to a dictator? And with what military would he do this with?

The UN has been working on the answer to this question since the last world war. If you are willing to dig into the topic more, you will find the website called 'stopthenorthamericanunion.com' full of detail. The changes which been made to the US Constitution in the last ten years might interest you.

Regarding military might, here is another area where the UN has commandeered international forces for its own ends. These are always made to sound as if they are in the national interest of the country donating the forces, but that may be a smokescreen for another agenda.

Again on the matter of military might, you may have noticed that the people are powerless to obtain a government which represents them effectively. In the UK (where I am) politicians have behaved so badly that no-one trusts them, wants to vote for them, or even wants to bother taking 'politics' seriously as a way of obtaining representation. Apathy has enabled successive governments to wreck various parts of the national infrastructure to such an extent - education included - see veteran's thread in the General forum about the merging of US and Soviet education systems - that a large minority of people have no idea what is going on. On both sides of the Atlantic governments are promoting drug use, with the resulting mental health issues which leave people unable to stand up for themselves, let alone fight for the common right. I'm stating this as an observation rather than a criticism, as I'm aware that we are to pray for the wisdom of our civil leaders so that we may lead quiet and peaceable lives.

In the EU, the Lisbon Treaty which was the revised European Constitution that countries were for the most part not given a referendum (even when it had been promised, as in the UK) to decide, there are many undesirable effects for member nations. Although the UK is not a full member like Ireland is, because of all our trade agreements, our freedom is not as free as it could be. I have not read this Treaty, but, I was fascinated by hearing that the Foreign Ministry of the Union is in Rome, and every Foreign Minister had to go to Rome (not Lisbon) to sign an 'instrument' there.

This sent me searching the internet for documentation. What I found, is a well-advanced plan for a judiciary and legal system which would have a physical base in each country. So far so good. But, it would not pay for this base, or be taxed for it. The base will not be open to scrutiny by the State in which it was situated. Those working in the base are not answerable to anyone, anywhere, not even a Eurpean authority. Documentation which is taken into the base would not necessarily ever come out again. Those inside the base would decide everything independently. From what I could tell, if a person went to Court there, there were absolutely no safeguards, no not one, over how they were to be represented, treated or disposed of.

And where are the scriptures to support it? And where are the scriptures that support a one world religion and one world government?

The second of these questions is the theme of this thread - the very extensive study linked in the opening post.

For a different take on the 'one world' everything agenda, and scripture to show it both in the Bible and something from which God intends to deliver believers, I suggest Mike Hoggard on youtube - almost any of his presentations will deal with an aspect of this. His ministry is completely different from the writer of Mark of the Beast or Mark of Yah, but they are saying the same thing. It's both in the Bible, and, it will fail, ultimately.
 

revturmoil

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Hi Kaoticprofit,

First I need to say that I started this thread to learn more than I know, and I have barely begun the reading I set myself. That aside, I will indicate some of what I know in this reply.



The UN has been working on the answer to this question since the last world war. If you are willing to dig into the topic more, you will find the website called 'stopthenorthamericanunion.com' full of detail. The changes which been made to the US Constitution in the last ten years might interest you.

Regarding military might, here is another area where the UN has commandeered international forces for its own ends. These are always made to sound as if they are in the national interest of the country donating the forces, but that may be a smokescreen for another agenda.

Again on the matter of military might, you may have noticed that the people are powerless to obtain a government which represents them effectively. In the UK (where I am) politicians have behaved so badly that no-one trusts them, wants to vote for them, or even wants to bother taking 'politics' seriously as a way of obtaining representation. Apathy has enabled successive governments to wreck various parts of the national infrastructure to such an extent - education included - see veteran's thread in the General forum about the merging of US and Soviet education systems - that a large minority of people have no idea what is going on. On both sides of the Atlantic governments are promoting drug use, with the resulting mental health issues which leave people unable to stand up for themselves, let alone fight for the common right. I'm stating this as an observation rather than a criticism, as I'm aware that we are to pray for the wisdom of our civil leaders so that we may lead quiet and peaceable lives.

In the EU, the Lisbon Treaty which was the revised European Constitution that countries were for the most part not given a referendum (even when it had been promised, as in the UK) to decide, there are many undesirable effects for member nations. Although the UK is not a full member like Ireland is, because of all our trade agreements, our freedom is not as free as it could be. I have not read this Treaty, but, I was fascinated by hearing that the Foreign Ministry of the Union is in Rome, and every Foreign Minister had to go to Rome (not Lisbon) to sign an 'instrument' there.

This sent me searching the internet for documentation. What I found, is a well-advanced plan for a judiciary and legal system which would have a physical base in each country. So far so good. But, it would not pay for this base, or be taxed for it. The base will not be open to scrutiny by the State in which it was situated. Those working in the base are not answerable to anyone, anywhere, not even a Eurpean authority. Documentation which is taken into the base would not necessarily ever come out again. Those inside the base would decide everything independently. From what I could tell, if a person went to Court there, there were absolutely no safeguards, no not one, over how they were to be represented, treated or disposed of.



The second of these questions is the theme of this thread - the very extensive study linked in the opening post.

For a different take on the 'one world' everything agenda, and scripture to show it both in the Bible and something from which God intends to deliver believers, I suggest Mike Hoggard on youtube - almost any of his presentations will deal with an aspect of this. His ministry is completely different from the writer of Mark of the Beast or Mark of Yah, but they are saying the same thing. It's both in the Bible, and, it will fail, ultimately.

What I see you doing is looking at the world we live in first and then trying to fit it to you beliefs. By using that method you can make just about anything fit with scripture.
 

dragonfly

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What I see you doing is looking at the world we live in first and then trying to fit it to you beliefs. By using that method you can make just about anything fit with scripture.

I don't think you do see me doing this. I have been extremely skeptical about much which is popular doctrine these days. Please go and read the post I made (copied from an old thread in another forum) in the Political forum here on CyB. http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/16094-bilderbugers-etc/

See who the quotes are from, and how far back they date, and note the topic of the thread (which is why I copied that post). I will go look for another post from that other forum, which touches on the New Freedom Commission, RFID, and the on-going development of an old way to identify people.
 

revturmoil

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I don't think you do see me doing this. I have been extremely skeptical about much which is popular doctrine these days. Please go and read the post I made (copied from an old thread in another forum) in the Political forum here on CyB. http://www.christian...lderbugers-etc/

See who the quotes are from, and how far back they date, and note the topic of the thread (which is why I copied that post). I will go look for another post from that other forum, which touches on the New Freedom Commission, RFID, and the on-going development of an old way to identify people.

You are trying to prove bible prophecy by quoting the comments and works of others esp. the secularist, many of which are unbelievers.

Look at the scriptures first!
 

dragonfly

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Hi KP,

Please check out the posts by the thread starter, here: http://www.sermonind...1904&forum=48

Thanks.

Hi KP,

I didn't notice your previous post when I made my last before this.

You are trying to prove bible prophecy by quoting the comments and works of others esp. the secularist, many of which are unbelievers.

Look at the scriptures first!

That is the whole point. It is the secularists who are working towards a 'one world' everything. If Christians don't know what's going on in the world, how can they pray intelligently or act with discretion when lives may be at stake?


I am not trying to prove Bible prophecy, or even, to interpret it. I'm just pointing to evidence of the other side's plans.

If you look back at your first two posts, they were about your interpretation of prophecy, without a single Bible verse to support your thesis.


The opening post links to a 2500 page Bible study which you would probably enjoy. Why not take a look at it?
 

revturmoil

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Hi KP,

Please check out the posts by the thread starter, here: http://www.sermonind.....1904&forum=48

Thanks.

Hi KP,

I didn't notice your previous post when I made my last before this.

That is the whole point. It is the secularists who are working towards a 'one world' everything. If Christians don't know what's going on in the world, how can they pray intelligently or act with discretion when lives may be at stake?

I am not trying to prove Bible prophecy, or even, to interpret it. I'm just pointing to evidence of the other side's plans.

If you look back at your first two posts, they were about your interpretation of prophecy, without a single Bible verse to support your thesis.


The opening post links to a 2500 page Bible study which you would probably enjoy. Why not take a look at it?

First of all I do my own homework and have my own hermeneutic or method of interpretation. I did give you a link to down under ministries which explains the mark and 666.

The word 'mark' is used in about 8 verses and most of those refer to the judgment of those who accept it. The number 666 I think is used in only one.

Revelation 13:18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

This is 666...

5516.
chi xi stigma khee xee stig'-ma the 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral:--six hundred threescore and six.
This is the word 'number'....which is the number of a man...
1)
a fixed and definite number
2)
an indefinite number, a multitude

And this is the word mark..
1)
a stamp, an imprinted mark
a)
of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist
the mark branded upon horses
2)
thing carved, sculpture, graven work
a)
of idolatrous images

And that's why I say the mark could easily be the zebiba or raisin which is a mark left on a fanatical Muslim's forehead which results from their head repeatedly hitting the mat as they bow toward Mecca worshiping Allah.

This is why I say 666 means the "multitudes of a man!" And that man is Muhammad!

This mark will be limited to his ten nation empire.

Why do I believe that?

The word all is one of the most misunderstood words in the bible.

In Greek and Hebrew there are over 130 words for all and it is used some 7 or 8 different ways. Prophecy experts like to use Rev. 13 to support a global dictator theory. It is a good chapter to explain some of the different ways the word all is used.

In the following verse the word all is "holos" and means,

all, whole, completely


http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3650&t=KJV

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Verse 3 states 'all the world' which does mean 'completely' or all in it's fullest sense.

The verse implies that the "whole" world will wonder (be astonished) after the beast. It doesn't imply that the whole world will be under the authority of the beast. In this verse the word all is Strongs # 3650 "holos" which does mean all, whole, completely.

The entire world will wonder after the beast because he once was (alive) and yet lives!

We must also be cautious when interpreting the word world and earth. The word world and earth can mean land, the ground, the earth as a whole, the inhabited earth, a country, land enclosed within fixed bounderies, a tract of land, a territory, or a region. 'Earth' often does not mean the entire earth and the use of the word all is often what determines how to interpret the word world and earth.

In the same chapter of Revelation 13:16 and Rev. 13:7-8 uses a different word for all.

Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelation 13:7-8 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

In these verse the word for all is 'pas' and has a different meaning.


http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3956&t=KJV

1) individually

a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything

2) collectively

a) some of all types

So what is verse 16 saying? Not that all the world will be subject to the beast, it refers to all the individual things which are 'within' his authority or empire.

Here are some verses how the word all, earth, or world does not mean the entirety of the whole as seen in the following examples:

And all the countries came to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph, because the famine was severe in all the world. (Genesis 41:57)

The whole world sought audience with Solomon to hear the wisdom God had put in his heart. (1 Kings 10:24)

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar August, that all the world should be taxed. (Luke 2:1)

So the Pharisees said to one another, "See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!" (John 12:19)

All nations did not go to Egypt to buy grain, neither did all nations seek an audience with Solomon, neither was the whole planet taxed by the Romans, neither did the whole world follow Jesus while he was on Earth. In Daniel 2 King Nebuchadnezzar is said to rule the whole world:

"You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all." (Daniel 2:37-38)

And the third Empire of brass is said to bear rule over all the earth. Daniel2:39....and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

Also, in Jeremiah, God said of Nebuchadnezzar, "All nations will serve him and his son and his grandson until the time for his land comes; then many nations and great kings will subjugate him" (Jeremiah 27:7).

Did "all nations" serve Nebuchadnezzar and were all nations subject to Babylon? If so, where do the kings and nations come from that will defeat Babylon? Did the third Empire of brass rule all the world? No Empire has ever ruled all the world! So this shows that the Bible does not mean the entirety of the whole or the whole planet but merely a large section of no certain size. Likewise, the beast will not rule the planet but will rule only those 'individual' nations within his empire.

In verse 3 the word all (holos) meaning all, whole, completely is used with only one object i.e. the world. And that word all (holos) and world (ge) does refer to the entire planet.

But in verse 7-8 the word all (pas) meaning individually, is used in connection with kindreds, tongues, and nations "under his authority." (individually)

Rev.13:7-8 then is implying that "all" the individual kindreds, tongues, and nations within the empire and religion of the beast will worship him.

Here are other examples of the word 'pas.' (all)-individually.

3 John 1:12 &para;Demetrius hath good report of all men, and of the truth itself: yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true.
All men did not know Demetrius and he didn't know all men!

Matthew 12:15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Not everyone was sick so Jesus didn't heal the multitudes but only the sick!

Matthew 21:10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?
Was the entire city moved and said, 'Who is this?

On the same page of Lexicon results just under the above definition Spurgeon says; (about the same word)

"... 'The whole world is gone after him.' Did all the world go after Christ? 'Then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan.' Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? 'Ye are of God, little children', and 'the whole world lieth in the wicked one.' Does 'the whole world' there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were 'of God?' The words 'world' and 'all' are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that 'all' means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts—some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted his redemption to either Jew or Gentile." (Charles H. Spurgeon, Particular Redemption, A Sermon, 28 Feb 1858).


Check out the word worship in verse 4 and consider what Muslim's do 5 times a day. The Greek word for worship used in the book of Revelation is proskuneo (4352) which literally means to bow down before someone.

Strong's says,
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage.

The Complete Word Study Dictionary says,
In the NT, generally, to do reverence or homage to someone, usually by kneeling or prostrating oneself before him.

Every instance of the word "worship" in the book of Revelation is proskuneo. Bowing before someone and prostrating oneself was considered a form of worship and the Greek word proskuneo refers to this form of worship.

The word worship in Revelation 13 refers to the bowing toward Mecca that Muslims do five times every day. A practising Muslim’s forehead is meant to touch the ground at least 34 times a day in symbolic submission to Allah's will which could add up to more than a million prostrations in a lifetime.

Here's are some images of the raisin. Maybe this is the mark???


http://www.google.co...iw=1440&bih=708

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_bump

Now do you have enough scriptural evidence to see why I believe what I believe?

NOW READ THE FIRST HALF OF THIS...
http://hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/666d.html

AND READ ALL OF THIS...
http://www.beholdthe...ran_and_666.htm

And maybe this will help!
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
 

dragonfly

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Hi KP,

Your study on the words for 'all' is a blessing. Thank you. I will keep it in mind as I read. At time of this post I have not yet read your links, but I hope to do so today.

As to the matter of 'all', two things stand out to me from other scriptures: first, the whole earth is the Lord's and secondly, He has His people here. Whichever 'all' one looks at, it has to be qualified by those two facts.
 

revturmoil

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Hi KP,

Your study on the words for 'all' is a blessing. Thank you. I will keep it in mind as I read. At time of this post I have not yet read your links, but I hope to do so today.

As to the matter of 'all', two things stand out to me from other scriptures: first, the whole earth is the Lord's and secondly, He has His people here. Whichever 'all' one looks at, it has to be qualified by those two facts.

Thank you for a good debate and an affimative reply. I've been on several different forums for over 10 years now and it's rare to find someone willing to change their mind.

In the many years I've studied prophecy, I have found that the simplest and most logical interpretation is usually the correct one. So I would be a bit leary about the link you provided in the OP. I did read a few pages of it and in my view find it to be way off target. Be aware I'm only in agreement with the first few paragraphs of the first link I provided, and mostly in agreement with the others. Hopefully I will soon have a web site to explain all of these things more fully but I'm havig trouble using the site builder I chose.

God bless you