Marriage Defenders Face Opposition as State Amendment Votes Approach

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HammerStone

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Of the eight states considering marriage protection amendments on November 7, Arizona is among those in which the outcome of the election is considered uncertain by the majority of political analysts. There and elsewhere across the U.S., homosexual activists and their supporters are fighting hard -- and sometimes fighting dirty -- to push the state votes their way.More...
 

Christina

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Swampfox do you think the resignation of Haggard (article below)will affect this vote?COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - The Rev. Ted Haggard said Friday he bought methamphetamine and received a massage from a male prostitute. But the influential Christian evangelist insisted he threw the drugs away and never had sex with the man.Haggard, who as president of the National Association of Evangelicals wielded influence on Capitol Hill and condemned both gay marriage and homosexuality, resigned on Thursday after a Denver man named Mike Jones claimed that he had many drug-fueled trysts with Haggard.On Friday, Haggard said that he received a massage from Jones after being referred to him by a Denver hotel, and that he bought meth for himself from the man.But Haggard said he never had sex with Jones. And as for the drugs, "I was tempted, but I never used it," the 50-year-old Haggard told reporters from his vehicle while leaving his home with his wife and three of his five children.Jones, 49, denied selling meth to Haggard. "Never," he told MSNBC. Haggard "met someone else that I had hooked him up with to buy it."Jones also scoffed at the idea that a hotel would have sent Haggard to him."No concierge in Denver would have referred me," he said. He said he had advertised himself as an escort only in gay publications or on gay Web sites.Jones did not immediately return calls from The Associated Press on Friday.In addition to resigning his post at the NAE, which claims 30 million members, Haggard stepped aside as leader of his 14,000-member New Life Church pending a church investigation. In a TV interview this week, he said: "Never had a gay relationship with anybody, and I'm steady with my wife, I'm faithful to my wife."In Denver, where Jones said his encounters with Haggard took place, police Detective Virginia Quinones said she was checking into whether the alleged drug deal was under investigation.Jones claims Haggard paid him for sex nearly every month for three years until August. He said Haggard identified himself as "Art." Jones said that he learned who Haggard really was when he saw the evangelical leader on television.Jones said he went public with the allegations because Haggard has supported a measure on Tuesday's ballot that would amend the state constitution to ban gay marriage. Jones said he was also angry that Haggard in public condemned gay sex.Haggard, who had been president since 2003 of the NAE, has participated in conservative Christian leaders' conference calls with White House staffers and lobbied members of Congress last year on U.S. Supreme Court nominees.The NAE's executive committee issued a statement Friday praising Haggard's service but saying "it is especially serious when a pastor and prominent Christian leader deliberately violates God's standards of conduct."The statement did not mention the allegations against Haggard beyond noting he had admitted to "some indiscretions.""Due to the seriousness of Rev. Haggard's misconduct while in the leadership roles he held, we anticipate that an extended period of recovery will be appropriate," the statement said.White House Deputy Press Secretary Tony Fratto said Friday that Haggard had visited the White House once or twice and participated in some of the conference calls. He declined to comment further, calling the matter a personal issue for Haggard.Corwin Smidt, a political scientist at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Mich., and director of the Institute for the Study of Christianity and Politics there, said that Haggard's role with the association gave him some political clout, but that the group's focus is more on religion than political activism."It isn't necessarily that all evangelicals are paying close attention to what he's saying and doing, but he is an important leader," Smidt said.James Dobson, head of Focus on the Family, an influential conservative Christian ministry based in Colorado Springs, said he was "heartsick" over the allegations. He described Haggard as his close friend and colleague.Aaron Stern, another pastor at New Life, told Associated Press Television News on Friday that Haggard is a man of integrity and that church members don't know whether to believe the allegations.Stern said he has been telling church members seeking his advice: "People do things we don't expect them to do, but in the midst of all of that our God is faithful, our God is strong."Jones took a lie-detector test Friday, and his answers to questions about whether he had sexual contact with Haggard "indicated deception," said John Kresnick, who administered the test free at the request of a Denver radio station.Jones told reporters afterward: "I am confused why I failed that, other than the fact that I'm totally exhausted."___Associated Press writers Robert Weller and Dan Elliott in Denver contributed to this report.Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.printable version
 

HammerStone

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I think it may have an influence on some certainly, but at the same time, you have to ask yourself: Does what someone else do in the name of Christianity really have an influence on what I believe and know to be true?
 

Christina

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I agree with you I'm not sure why the news media keeps tying the two stories together I would think if it has any effect at all it would be to to make Christians want to come out and vote to protect marriage between a man and a woman
 

Phronesis

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I can't tell you how bummed I am about the Ted Haggard story. My wife and I lived in Co Springs for a year and attended New Life. We thought he was great. Every once in a great while you see a Christian leader stand up with such (perceived) integrity. To see that crumble away can be heartbreaking. Regardless of what others do though, faith has to be a one-on-one deal. You can't let others mistakes drag your walk through the mud.
 

HammerStone

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Regardless of what others do though, faith has to be a one-on-one deal. You can't let others mistakes drag your walk through the mud.
Indeed. I have to say that I was saddened as well about the whole situation but as you said, we must distance the act of a person from our own faith. I pray that Haggard will come to ask for forgiveness for what he has done and that Gods will be done in the entire matter. That is, of course, between him and God and I will say no more there.
I agree with you I'm not sure why the news media keeps tying the two stories together I would think if it has any effect at all it would be to to make Christians want to come out and vote to protect marriage between a man and a woman
Well it's all in perception. I really don't want to turn this into an "us" against "them" thing, but the media acts in a predictable manner. I'm not here to judge, but much of the media is an inherently Godless people (I really hate to seem like I am generalizing here because there are Christians in the media and so on) and when they see a leader fail then support quickly wanes. They do not understand that for the real body of Christ, the actions of a human church leader (no matter how large) do not really have an effect on the personal relationship with God. Phronesis illustrates it above since he obviously had a stronger tie that any of us to Haggard's church. It is disheartening in some ways yes, but each person is responsible for his or her own salvation. Salvation is not decided on a national or even church level.That's not to say there won't be some votes influenced who otherwise would have voted yes (here in SC we vote yes for the defense amendment, not sure how it worked for Colorado). That's all between them and God, and it's not my place to judge, but spend some time in his Word and you'll know the answer.
 

Christina

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(Phronesis;3736)
I can't tell you how bummed I am about the Ted Haggard story. My wife and I lived in Co Springs for a year and attended New Life. We thought he was great. Every once in a great while you see a Christian leader stand up with such (perceived) integrity. To see that crumble away can be heartbreaking. Regardless of what others do though, faith has to be a one-on-one deal. You can't let others mistakes drag your walk through the mud.
I was also sorry to hear about this but it wasn't as personal for me as it is for you and your wife.as you and Swampfox have said its our personal relationship with God that has to be our strength not our dependence on another human no matter who he may be.On judgement day we will all standalone not with any church, group or man.that being said doesnt change the fact that many people are feeling hurt and betrayed or let down and for that I am sorry,I just hope they have your outlook and don't become disillusionedGod Bless to you and your family
 

BernieEOD

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The Gospel does not stand on any human or human organization. If anybody is angered or grossly disappointed, that person has placed too much faith in that person or his / her organization. If anything, I rejoice that the truth was revieled before others could be led astray. True faith is not weather we stumble or not but how we react to our stumbling. Will he accept responsibility, Repent, and submit to correction? Thus far he has made excuses, downplayed the incident (I bought the meth but didn't use it)and went into hiding the same way Foley did.